Where would you rather finish at the end of the regular season?

Where would you rather the Montreal Canadiens finish this year?


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Sterling Archer

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Sep 26, 2006
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The worst part of these “Habs should have” posts is that over time, people begin to remember them as being real.

Like 5 years from now if Dobson and Wahlstrom are lighting it up, posters will blast Bergevin for not trading the 3rd for the Isles picks as if it was ever on the table. It’ll probably be even less factual and include multiple pieces that were never even discussed or ever on the table. Habs could have traded for this and that star player! Bergevin is such a moron!!!
 

Kent Nilsson

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because you can do that over the next 2 drafts while giving us a top D prospect which we also badly need and you have Poehling/Olofsson/Thomas (if going by my post) to at least give you some depth there in the meantime. My plan would have been to go after the Avs hard, do what it takes to get that Sens 1st and go into the '19 draft with hopefully 2 top 5 picks.

I like what I've seen from Kotka so it's not a big deal, just would have done things differently.

- Even though our team is trash, Price could easily pull off a great season and carry us to bubble territory.
- Sakic is never gonna trade that pick.
 
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Grate n Colorful Oz

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Wouldn't bet on us bottoming out for the next two years. I know this organisation too well

Dude there's no method to this madness, it's a self-inflicted downward spiral drain of talent. This is not the NHL of 10 years ago. Our lineup is way too weak to compete even with Price and Weber in the lineup. And Julien is no Gerard Gallant. I just don't see it. No matter how hard they actually try, Molson & Cie won't salvage this without going through the painful process of just not being able to win enough games on a consistent basis.

Unless.. you believe attitude is everything?
 
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The Gr8 Dane

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Dude there's no method to this madness, it's a self-inflicted downward spiral drain of talent. This is not the NHL of 10 years ago. Our lineup is way too weak to compete even with Price and Weber in the lineup. And Julien is no Gerard Gallant. I just don't see it. No matter how hard they actually try, Molson & Cie won't salvage this without going through the painful process of just not being able to win enough games on a consistent basis.

Unless.. you believe attitude is everything?

I actually think there's more parity than ever in the league. Wich is why I'm scared we might actual be decent (10-11-12th) in the east instead of the worst team in the league like we actually are on paper
 
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Mrb1p

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Dude there's no method to this madness, it's a self-inflicted downward spiral drain of talent. This is not the NHL of 10 years ago. Our lineup is way too weak to compete even with Price and Weber in the lineup. And Julien is no Gerard Gallant. I just don't see it. No matter how hard they actually try, Molson & Cie won't salvage this without going through the painful process of just not being able to win enough games on a consistent basis.

Unless.. you believe attitude is everything?
Theres a real chance this team finishes 9th or 10th or something... it has happened before.
 
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admiralcadillac

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Theres a real chance this team finishes 9th or 10th or something... it has happened before.

I think they can push for a playoff spot (9-10th) despite me not wanting them to. However, that would either mean price is back in fine form or the young guns start pulling their weight...
 

The Great Weal

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Price is literally the only way we get out of a top 10 pick. Nothing else on this roster will be able to get us more wins.
 

montreal

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The C pool looks a lot stronger with Kotkaniemi than without and the wingers in Kaliyev and Kakko look like much better wingers than the ones available there, plus well probably be able to pick Honka with Patches first. People are somehow sticking to the idea of Kotkaniemi being a worse C prospect than what usually goes in the first few picks, its wrong.

Yes but then we don't have a top pairing D prospect so it's about balance. You could have gotten a top pairing D prospect plus a high end winger and then gotten your top center prospect next year and then grab another one the following year. My plan would have us picking top 4 for sure and I think I could get the Sens 1st, so we could get a top center and a top winger imo. Granted it's all just guess work but gives something else to talk about.

It isn't to bash Kotka though, just a mix of getting more assets, filling another major hole while doing so and not getting a 3rd OA with skating issues. Just a different view of what we could have done.

The main flaws I see with your post are a) you’re assuming there was a team who would have traded to move down and b) your relying on hope that next year we’re in a position to draft a prospect who might be better than Kotkaniemi.

If we do suck again and have the opportunity to draft another blue chip center prospect than how is that a bad thing? Not all centers pan out so if we have 2,3,4 blue chip center prospects, I’ll take it. Worst comes to worse and you need to make space for the top 2 or 3 of them, you can simply trade the ones who aren’t there for a kings ransom anyways. Centers have incredible value and you can use them to get value well into their 20’s.

As for drafting Boqvist or any other D, the draft has shown time and time again that All Star caliber D can be had later in the 1st and later rounds. To use a pick on a D over a center that high would be a mistake IMO unless the talent difference is exponentially higher a la Dahlin vs the rest.

If you like you’re guy at 3, take him at 3. The fact Arizona picked Hayton at 5 says everything you need to know about the value of a center in today’s NHL. Add the fact you jay Patches should net us at least another 1st and we have been more opportunity to add to the depth of this organization next year.

a) well of course, it's not hard to think they could have gotten something decent if they were willing to trade down. I think 6th and 33rd is a more then fair assumption but it's all done in fun since dun bun can't be undone.

b) there's ways to make sure you have a top 4 pick, you would need some luck that it ends up better then Kotka but it's shaping up to be a very good draft for centers and you would have '20 as well. Getting Boqvist and whoever they picked at 33rd vs Kotka to me is a good bet to make when you have a good shot at getting a high end center next draft and perhaps the following.

- Even though our team is trash, Price could easily pull off a great season and carry us to bubble territory.
- Sakic is never gonna trade that pick.

There are ways around that. Have your defense made up of Alzner, Ouellet, Gelinas, Despres, Valiev, Lernout. Play Niemi a lot, trade Petry, Gallagher, Pac, Drouin, Byron, Shaw, Scherbak, have players like waivers Shaw, Froese, Rychel, McCarron. That team won't score a lick and even Price was the best he'd ever been he wouldn't be able to win that many games if they don't score.

For the right offer you could get the pick imo. Drouin, Weber, retain 50%, if they want to compete. It's a moot point since MB is going to try to win but I think it could be done.
 

Mrb1p

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Yes but then we don't have a top pairing D prospect so it's about balance. You could have gotten a top pairing D prospect plus a high end winger and then gotten your top center prospect next year and then grab another one the following year. My plan would have us picking top 4 for sure and I think I could get the Sens 1st, so we could get a top center and a top winger imo. Granted it's all just guess work but gives something else to talk about.

It isn't to bash Kotka though, just a mix of getting more assets, filling another major hole while doing so and not getting a 3rd OA with skating issues. Just a different view of what we could have done.



a) well of course, it's not hard to think they could have gotten something decent if they were willing to trade down. I think 6th and 33rd is a more then fair assumption but it's all done in fun since dun bun can't be undone.

b) there's ways to make sure you have a top 4 pick, you would need some luck that it ends up better then Kotka but it's shaping up to be a very good draft for centers and you would have '20 as well. Getting Boqvist and whoever they picked at 33rd vs Kotka to me is a good bet to make when you have a good shot at getting a high end center next draft and perhaps the following.



There are ways around that. Have your defense made up of Alzner, Ouellet, Gelinas, Despres, Valiev, Lernout. Play Niemi a lot, trade Petry, Gallagher, Pac, Drouin, Byron, Shaw, Scherbak, have players like waivers Shaw, Froese, Rychel, McCarron. That team won't score a lick and even Price was the best he'd ever been he wouldn't be able to win that many games if they don't score.

For the right offer you could get the pick imo. Drouin, Weber, retain 50%, if they want to compete. It's a moot point since MB is going to try to win but I think it could be done.
We dont NEED a top end D prospect, we need centermen, elite ones, then we can think about adding Ds.

Anyway our D pool looks good, whos to say Brook doesnt have elite in him?

Other point is that its much easier to add elite Ds outside of the top 10 than Cs.
 

montreal

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We dont NEED a top end D prospect, we need centermen, elite ones, then we can think about adding Ds.

Anyway our D pool looks good, whos to say Brook doesnt have elite in him?

Other point is that its much easier to add elite Ds outside of the top 10 than Cs.

we badly need a top D prospect cause we don't have one. Brook I like more then most around here but he needs to develop more offense, improve his shot if he's going to be a top pairing D. I think if everything goes well he can be a top pairing D but I think he ends up more of a 2nd pairing D.

If it was in reverse, so let's say '19 looks to be a heck of a draft for blueliners, then you take Kotka and get your top D prospect in '19. To me we badly need high end talent and we badly need center prospects with size and skill but we are thin on LD prospects and badly need top pairing D prospects.

Adding elite D's or centers are extremely difficult, in my scenario we could have hit on both. Time will tell how it all unfolds though.

No harm in being higher on Boqivst (not that I follow the drafts all that well) and being concerned with a 3rd OA with skating issues. In today's NHL you have got to have the skating/speed.
 

Mrb1p

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we badly need a top D prospect cause we don't have one. Brook I like more then most around here but he needs to develop more offense, improve his shot if he's going to be a top pairing D. I think if everything goes well he can be a top pairing D but I think he ends up more of a 2nd pairing D.

If it was in reverse, so let's say '19 looks to be a heck of a draft for blueliners, then you take Kotka and get your top D prospect in '19. To me we badly need high end talent and we badly need center prospects with size and skill but we are thin on LD prospects and badly need top pairing D prospects.

Adding elite D's or centers are extremely difficult, in my scenario we could have hit on both. Time will tell how it all unfolds though.

No harm in being higher on Boqivst (not that I follow the drafts all that well) and being concerned with a 3rd OA with skating issues. In today's NHL you have got to have the skating/speed.

Ive posted a list of the 1Cs taken in the top 10 on the other page, the list of 1Cs taken after the first 10 ot 15 picks is almost non existant. Compare it to that list of top pairing Ds:

Faulk
Slavin
Subban
Ekholm
Josi
Chara
Krug
Keith
Barrie
Weber
Klingberg
Yandle
Muzzin
Petry
Leddy
Gost
Skjei
Letang
Vlasic
Stralman
Byfuglien
Edler
Parayko
Miller
Orlov
Schmitd


Vs

Hedman
Sergachev
Doughty
Provorov
Ellis
Pietrangelo
Johnson
Hamilton
Lindholm
Dumba
Jones
Ristolainen
Trouba
Ekblad
 

montreal

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Ive posted a list of the 1Cs taken in the top 10 on the other page, the list of 1Cs taken after the first 10 ot 15 picks is almost non existant. Compare it to that list of top pairing Ds:

Faulk
Slavin
Subban
Ekholm
Josi
Chara
Krug
Keith
Barrie
Weber
Klingberg
Yandle
Muzzin
Petry
Leddy
Gost
Skjei
Letang
Vlasic
Stralman
Byfuglien
Edler
Parayko
Miller
Orlov
Schmitd


Vs

Hedman
Sergachev
Doughty
Provorov
Ellis
Pietrangelo
Johnson
Hamilton
Lindholm
Dumba
Jones
Ristolainen
Trouba
Ekblad


doesn't mean anything, it comes down to Kotka vs Boqvist and say the 33rd overall. Then get your centers in the top 5 the next 2 years. Just because they pass on one to draft a top D prospect, doesn't mean they can't land 2 in the next 2 years if things were done right.
 

Mrb1p

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doesn't mean anything, it comes down to Kotka vs Boqvist and say the 33rd overall. Then get your centers in the top 5 the next 2 years. Just because they pass on one to draft a top D prospect, doesn't mean they can't land 2 in the next 2 years if things were done right.
What tells you we get top 5 picks? Its a lot more likely the Habs dont get a top 5 than they do.
 

Sterling Archer

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Sep 26, 2006
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Yes but then we don't have a top pairing D prospect so it's about balance. You could have gotten a top pairing D prospect plus a high end winger and then gotten your top center prospect next year and then grab another one the following year. My plan would have us picking top 4 for sure and I think I could get the Sens 1st, so we could get a top center and a top winger imo. Granted it's all just guess work but gives something else to talk about.

It isn't to bash Kotka though, just a mix of getting more assets, filling another major hole while doing so and not getting a 3rd OA with skating issues. Just a different view of what we could have done.



a) well of course, it's not hard to think they could have gotten something decent if they were willing to trade down. I think 6th and 33rd is a more then fair assumption but it's all done in fun since dun bun can't be undone.

b) there's ways to make sure you have a top 4 pick, you would need some luck that it ends up better then Kotka but it's shaping up to be a very good draft for centers and you would have '20 as well. Getting Boqvist and whoever they picked at 33rd vs Kotka to me is a good bet to make when you have a good shot at getting a high end center next draft and perhaps the following.



There are ways around that. Have your defense made up of Alzner, Ouellet, Gelinas, Despres, Valiev, Lernout. Play Niemi a lot, trade Petry, Gallagher, Pac, Drouin, Byron, Shaw, Scherbak, have players like waivers Shaw, Froese, Rychel, McCarron. That team won't score a lick and even Price was the best he'd ever been he wouldn't be able to win that many games if they don't score.

For the right offer you could get the pick imo. Drouin, Weber, retain 50%, if they want to compete. It's a moot point since MB is going to try to win but I think it could be done.

Sorry man but your plan is contingent on what ifs and unlikely scenarios which is not how you operate a franchise. Far more likely is we end picking top 10 in next years deaft with at least one more 1st rounder. More than enough talent to get a center, franchise type D and or a skilled winger.

Life is fast and things change quickly. You have to work with what you have and not with what might happen in the future.
 
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montreal

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What tells you we get top 5 picks? Its a lot more likely the Habs dont get a top 5 than they do.

as I said, Have your defense made up of Alzner, Ouellet, Gelinas, Despres, Valiev, Lernout. Play Niemi a lot, trade Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Pac, Drouin, Byron, Shaw, Scherbak, retain on several players to up their value. have players like waivers Shaw, Froese, Rychel, McCarron. That team won't score a lick and even Price was the best he'd ever been he wouldn't be able to win that many games if they don't score.

Sorry man but your plan is contingent on what ifs and unlikely scenarios which is not how you operate a franchise. Far more likely is we end picking top 10 in next years deaft with at least one more 1st rounder. More than enough talent to get a center, franchise type D and or a skilled winger.

Life is fast and things change quickly. You have to work with what you have and not with what might happen in the future.

well it's in hindsight and just for fun so of course there are going to be what ifs but as I said there are ways to put yourself in a much better position to draft top 5 next year.

I actually think we draft 10th or so next year and that sucks, but it's because our organization is run so poorly.
 

Sterling Archer

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Sep 26, 2006
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as I said, Have your defense made up of Alzner, Ouellet, Gelinas, Despres, Valiev, Lernout. Play Niemi a lot, trade Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Pac, Drouin, Byron, Shaw, Scherbak, retain on several players to up their value. have players like waivers Shaw, Froese, Rychel, McCarron. That team won't score a lick and even Price was the best he'd ever been he wouldn't be able to win that many games if they don't score.



well it's in hindsight and just for fun so of course there are going to be what ifs but as I said there are ways to put yourself in a much better position to draft top 5 next year.

I actually think we draft 10th or so next year and that sucks, but it's because our organization is run so poorly.

This is a circular argument now. I’m not saying you’re wrong that we have shit for D for the most past. I’m arguing that your “plan” is dumb and based on imaginary trade scenarios that from all accounts were not available and the hope of a future where we can secure assets we have no idea would even be available.

Take it year by year and take the best each has to offer. Load up on picks next year and hope that the BPA is the position you want at the spot your picking at. Anything else is fairytales.
 

montreal

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This is a circular argument now. I’m not saying you’re wrong that we have **** for D for the most past. I’m arguing that your “plan” is dumb and based on imaginary trade scenarios that from all accounts were not available and the hope of a future where we can secure assets we have no idea would even be available.

Take it year by year and take the best each has to offer. Load up on picks next year and hope that the BPA is the position you want at the spot your picking at. Anything else is fairytales.

it's not hard to think that we could have traded down a few spots and got the 33rd overall pick or so. That's certainly a fair offer. But if this team were run better, which let's face it they f***ing suck at it or we wouldn't be in this situation, we could have been set up pretty well for the next couple years vs what we are currently looking at. And I don't see how getting Boqvist is dumb, he's going to kill it in London.
 

Sterling Archer

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it's not hard to think that we could have traded down a few spots and got the 33rd overall pick or so. That's certainly a fair offer. But if this team were run better, which let's face it they ****ing suck at it or we wouldn't be in this situation, we could have been set up pretty well for the next couple years vs what we are currently looking at. And I don't see how getting Boqvist is dumb, he's going to kill it in London.

By all accounts Bergevin TRIED to trade down and there were no takers. What’s he supposed to do in that situation?

Also, I’m dying to know your plan on how we end up with ottawas 1st from Colorado? Please, I must know your plan.
 

montreal

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By all accounts Bergevin TRIED to trade down and there were no takers. What’s he supposed to do in that situation?

Also, I’m dying to know your plan on how we end up with ottawas 1st from Colorado? Please, I must know your plan.

we don't know what his ask was, it's not like he's good at his job though so he likely screwed that up. And if it's true that he wanted to trade down then what was the plan to hope that Kotka would still be there?

As for the Avs you see what they want. Drouin at 50%, + Weber at 50%. It's impossible to guess what it would cost, but I don't trust MB to tie his shoes correctly let alone have a good plan and be able to put it to action.
 

Sterling Archer

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Sep 26, 2006
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we don't know what his ask was, it's not like he's good at his job though so he likely screwed that up. And if it's true that he wanted to trade down then what was the plan to hope that Kotka would still be there?

As for the Avs you see what they want. Drouin at 50%, + Weber at 50%. It's impossible to guess what it would cost, but I don't trust MB to tie his shoes correctly let alone have a good plan and be able to put it to action.

Sorry not I’d rather have Bergevin as GM than you if these are your solutions. I think you’re a solid poster but not one thing you’ve posted makes any sense.
 

montreal

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Sorry not I’d rather have Bergevin as GM than you if these are your solutions. I think you’re a solid poster but not one thing you’ve posted makes any sense.

At this point I think a donkey could do a better job them MB, he's just terrible. But I fail to see how wanting Boqvist over Kotka is dumb or doesn't make sense.
 
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Sterling Archer

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At this point I think a donkey could do a better job them MB, he's just terrible. But I fail to see how wanting Boqvist over Kotka is dumb or doesn't make sense.

Well that would involve a trade with Chicago and we already has their 2nd. So there goes your theory there.

I understand your frustration but I really don’t see how any of your proposals make anything better but rather make things much worse and leave us twisting in the wind.
 
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montreal

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Well that would involve a trade with Chicago and we already has their 2nd. So there goes your theory there.

I understand your frustration but I really don’t see how any of your proposals make anything better but rather make things much worse and leave us twisting in the wind.

I was thinking wings, who were rumored to have a deal with the stars who wanted to move up.

The whole idea is to get much worse. Having Price win us some games isn't going to do any good for the future. Finishing 10th or whatever will stink badly as we are looking at a possible great draft for centers and we know that in '20 there's going to be at least one outstanding center prospect. If the Habs were to get much worse, they will all but be a lock for a top 4/5 pick over the next 2 or more years. We have a very serious lack of high end prospects, that's a fact. You mainly get those high end prospects by picking top 3/5 depending on the year. This past season was a top 2 heavy and 3-8 or so strong but tight group which is idea for trading down and adding another quality asset.

This is about being creative and trying to build a contender years from now instead of the finishing 10th or so and missing out on the top talent and then not having any direction. I really don't see what's so bad about this line of thinking. But instead we are f***ed and won't have many high end prospects to bail us out.
 

yianik

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I posted elsewhere that TT has to have gotten us 5 top 6 forwards/top 3D from everybody we have in our system.

We need 6 top line forwards.

I think Drouin is a top 6 winger , he is young and signed long term.

Gallagher is a top 6 player, and will be in his prime for a good number of years yet, still has a few years on his contract.

Statistically we have a good chance of having 2 top 6C from our prospects. As a side note we will probably have 2 good bottom C as well.

So we need 2 more top 6 forwards. In the running right now are Domi, Hudon, Scherbak and Lehkonen.

On D we have Weber as our no.1, and Petry as our no.3. Solid guys. The D overall is in shambles with a huge list of "who ? " kind of guys MB found at the flea market.

However Mete and Juulsen certainly looked pretty decent. These 2 have the potential to be no.3 and no.4 D respectively. I'm not sure about Juulsens skill set being good enough to be a no. 3D.

We have Fleury, Brook, Romanov and the great unwashed legion of 50/50 tickets to play.

With Weber I fear the clock is really ticking as a no.1 D value wise. I had really hoped for Hanifin as a potential top pair D, maybe even as a no.1.

I think D is the biggest wild card and we need a couple of more guys to be top 3 players, assuming Mete or Juulsen can at least fill one slot.

Aside from Patches our biggest realistic trade chip is Weber. His timeline and ours do t really match up. Ideally he comes back strong and we move him after the season. I will note the expansion draft is looming and with Petry and Weber, one of our young guys will otherwise have to be exposed.

Lots of questions. We seem better set at forward longer term than D, thats for sure. TT is the guy. We need a good bunch of his picks to come through as top players.
 
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