Where would be the most logical place to move a team?

[BrianSTC]

No.

Spoken from someone who has lived in both Florida and Canada.

There is no comparison.

One area is absolutely crazed about hockey, and the other couldn't care less.

When the Toronto Maple Leafs are in the playoffs, 95 percent of the ENTIRE population of southern Ontario (and a good percentage of all Candians) are following the team. It is front page news.

When I lived in Florida, they didn't even publish the NHL standings and I would be lucky to find a small paragraph about hockey buried in the back section.

The majority of the population of Florida don't even realise the Florida Panthers or Tampa Bay Lightning exist!! It is just the way it is...

 

[Sotnos]

Spoken like a true elitist

Yup

So, where in Florida did you live that they didn't put the standings in the paper and when was this?

 

[BrianSTC]

Panama City.

But why should it matter?

I could live in Flin Flon, Manitoba and the NHL would be front page news.

Florida has two teams - Manitoba doesn't have any teams.

Why are you so offended at the truth?

 

[Sotnos]

Panama City.

I might have figured. How shocking that the hockey coverage is bad in the Florida panhandle, 5-8 hours away from the Florida teams, CONTRACT THEM!

Is it such a terrible thing that fans are a bit more localized in Florida than in Canada?

Way to ruin a somewhat civil thread. I find it hard to believe that people are signing up just to post stuff like this, VERY hard.

 

[BrianSTC]

I might have figured. How shocking that the hockey coverage is bad in the Florida panhandle, 5-8 hours away from the Florida teams, CONTRACT THEM!

Is it such a terrible thing that fans are a bit more localized in Florida than in Canada?

Way to ruin a somewhat civil thread. I find it hard to believe that people are signing up just to post stuff like this, VERY hard.

lol.

Obviously it seems you don't live in a hockey market...
I guess they should stop printing the baseball standings in Rochester since they are too far away from the New York Yankees.

Anyway, I just gave my two-cents. If you happen not to agree, so be it...

We will all know who was right or wrong in the next few years, but don't be surprised to see a few southern US based NHL teams to be moved. Just don't shoot the messenger.

Keep on eye on:
Nashville, Florida, Atlanta

When it happens, I won't even bother saying I told you so.

 

[MoreOrr]

I might have figured. How shocking that the hockey coverage is bad in the Florida panhandle, 5-8 hours away from the Florida teams, CONTRACT THEM!

Is it such a terrible thing that fans are a bit more localized in Florida than in Canada?

Way to ruin a somewhat civil thread. I find it hard to believe that people are signing up just to post stuff like this, VERY hard.

I should just keep myself out of this... but I guess I'm not so smart.

Question: Where did BrianSTC actually say anything about contracting the teams in Florida or any other southern city?

Where did you say anything to actually contradict what BrianSTC said in his first post?

And what actually did BrianSTC say that is incorrect?

Hey, I know that commentaries like that upset fans (true fans) in southern NHL cities, but, for once, would someone in a southern NHL city simply try to understand the perspective of a fan in a northern or Canadian city. The guy is simply trying to point out that he'd like (any future) hockey teams to be in places where there is widespread or potential widespread support, widespread appreciation of the game, and not simply the support of a several thousand people who live directly in the city where the team is located and no where else. It's nice to be able to go to a bar anywhere and find people to talk about hockey, go to anyone's home and watch hockey, open up any newspaper and find multiple pages dedicated to hockey, etc.

Call him, and me I suppose, a hockey elitist if you wish, if that's how you define us because we point out such facts.

 

[Levizk]

I have mostly been just reading, and while I can understand your comment that Winnipeg might not be a great place for a team I have to ask why you think Halifax would be any better. You do realise that the economy in the Maritimes is just about the worst in Canada.

I can understand Houston and Portland probably being better, even KC with the right owner, but Halifax?

Halifax didn't start showing up in anyone's talk for a team until a certain Mr. Crosby entered the league. I don't know if it's because people think that a team in Halifax would bring Crosby back to Canada, or if he just made people realize that Halifax would have a major interest in the NHL, but I remember seeing Ron Maclean propose expansion to Halifax not too long ago. If the league expands to Halifax instead of Hamilton or Quebec City, then they might as well put a team in Brantford instead of Hamilton since I'm sure Gretzky's hometown would want a team as well.

 

[Sotnos]

lol.

Obviously it seems you don't live in a hockey market...

I live north of Tampa, where there is excellent coverage of the local team & the NHL in general. They post standings for every damn sport out there, if the papers in Panama City suck, maybe you should have complained to them.

I should just keep myself out of this...

Yeah, maybe you should. Don't see why you're offended unless that's your other account.

 

[BrianSTC]

I live north of Tampa, where there is excellent coverage of the local team & the NHL in general. They post standings for every damn sport out there, if the papers in Panama City suck, maybe you should have complained to them.

Tampa?

Almost went back to Florida during the 2004 Stanley Cup finals...
I noticed there were lots of tickets to game five still available the day before.
However, we figure the trip was gonna be too far (by car).
So we went to Calgary for game six and hung out on the Red Mile instead.
Unfortunately, there was no way we were gonna get tickets to the game in Calgary.
Must be nice to live in a city where you can purchase tickets to a Stanley Cup playoff game the day before and still get good seats...

 

[OG6ix]

Well, while I'm the first to say if anywhere in the US - Houston should be the place but in the case of Hamilton:

NHL ready arena: check
Interested Owner: check and raise - Jim Balsillie buying a team
Bigger market: GTA area, immense hockey potential, 7million plus hockey fans, 20,000 seats in Toronto. Check.
History: Hosted Canada Cup games, all sold out. AHL history, check.
Could fix divisional alignment - check, but not an issue.

7 million plus hockey fans?

The city and its surround greater areas doesn't even have 7 million people, let alone all of them being sports fans.

 

[BrianSTC]

7 million plus hockey fans?

The city and its surround greater areas doesn't even have 7 million people, let alone all of them being sports fans.

Southern Ontario has a population of 11,400,000.

The population of Hamilton and the surrounding area, lets say within a 90 minute drive would not be too unreasonable:

Hamilton has a population of 504,559.
Hamilton is 45 minutes from Toronto (pop. 2,503,000)
Hamilton is 32 minutes from Mississauga (pop. 668,550)
Hamilton is 43 minutes from Brampton (pop. 433,800)
Hamilton is 87 minutes from London (pop. 352,400)
Hamilton is 64 minutes from Markham (pop. 261,575)
Hamilton is 58 minutes from Vaughan (pop. 240,000)
Hamilton is 55 minutes from Kitchener (pop. 205,000)
Hamilton is 22 minutes from Oakville (pop. 165,500)
Hamilton is 13 minutes from Burlington (pop. 164,500)
Hamilton is 62 minutes from Richmond Hill (pop. 162,700)
Hamilton is 81 minutes from Oshawa (pop. 141,600)
Hamilton is 45 minutes from St Catherines (pop. 132,000)
Hamilton is 93 minutes from Barrie (pop. 128,400)
Hamilton is 44 minutes from Cambridge (pop. 120,400)
Hamilton is 50 minutes from Guelph (pop. 115,000)
Hamilton is 81 minutes from Whitby (pop. 111,000)
Hamilton is 59 minutes from Waterloo (pop. 97,500)
Hamilton is 33 minutes from Brantford (pop. 90,200)
Hamilton is 75 minutes from Ajax (pop. 90,100)
Hamilton is 72 minutes from Pickering (pop. 87,800)
Hamilton is 59 minutes from Niagara Falls (pop. 82,200)
Hamilton is 93 minutes from Clarington (pop 77,800)
Hamilton is 78 minutes from Newmarket (pop. 74,300)
Hamilton is 66 minutes from Norfolk (pop.62,550)

Total: 7,072,475

There is actually more towns but I believe we have surpassed the magic number.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Tampa?

Almost went back to Florida during the 2004 Stanley Cup finals...
I noticed there were lots of tickets to game five still available the day before.
However, we figure the trip was gonna be too far (by car).
So we went to Calgary for game six and hung out on the Red Mile instead.
Unfortunately, there was no way we were gonna get tickets to the game in Calgary.
Must be nice to live in a city where you can purchase tickets to a Stanley Cup playoff game the day before and still get good seats...

*sigh*

Tampa has nearly always held tickets to be sold on the day of the game - even during the playoffs, and even during the SC Finals. Every one of the SCF games was sold out prior to the release of those tickets on game day.

Let's not leap to wildly inaccurate conclusions based on skewed interpretations of the facts.

Southern Ontario has a population of 11,400,000.

The population of Hamilton and the surrounding area, lets say within a 90 minute drive would not be too unreasonable:

Decide how likely it is to get off work at 5:00pm, fight traffic through rush hour between [insert any of the cities listed] and the site of the arena in the Hamilton area (wherever it is), factor in the wait needed to actually park, and get through the gates and into said arena to be in the seat when the game starts at 7:00pm; then figure in the wait to get out of the arena after the game, the wait to get out of the parking lots, and back onto the road back to [insert city listed above]. I suspect that series of events is going to cut down quite a bit on how many people will consistently consider making that drive - and that's not even getting into the, "how many people have the means to even attend a game in the first place?" argument ... which I'm going to go out on a limb and state is nowhere near 100%.

Accounting for cities within 90 minutes of Hamilton is an extremely big reach when deciding the population that a team in Hamilton would consistently draw from, given what it would take to get to/from a game as I've described above. Even going the 45 minutes from Toronto might be a push - and that's assuming enough of the population in Toronto would actually split from supporting the Maple Leafs to pull for the new team. I expect it would end up being much more like a Yankees/Mets situation, where no matter what happens much of the area will still pull for the original team even 35-45 years later.

 

[jkrdevil]

Southern Ontario has a population of 11,400,000.

The population of Hamilton and the surrounding area, lets say within a 90 minute drive would not be too unreasonable:

Hamilton has a population of 504,559.
Hamilton is 45 minutes from Toronto (pop. 2,503,000)
Hamilton is 32 minutes from Mississauga (pop. 668,550)
Hamilton is 43 minutes from Brampton (pop. 433,800)
Hamilton is 87 minutes from London (pop. 352,400)
Hamilton is 64 minutes from Markham (pop. 261,575)
Hamilton is 58 minutes from Vaughan (pop. 240,000)
Hamilton is 55 minutes from Kitchener (pop. 205,000)
Hamilton is 22 minutes from Oakville (pop. 165,500)
Hamilton is 13 minutes from Burlington (pop. 164,500)
Hamilton is 62 minutes from Richmond Hill (pop. 162,700)
Hamilton is 81 minutes from Oshawa (pop. 141,600)
Hamilton is 45 minutes from St Catherines (pop. 132,000)
Hamilton is 93 minutes from Barrie (pop. 128,400)
Hamilton is 44 minutes from Cambridge (pop. 120,400)
Hamilton is 50 minutes from Guelph (pop. 115,000)
Hamilton is 81 minutes from Whitby (pop. 111,000)
Hamilton is 59 minutes from Waterloo (pop. 97,500)
Hamilton is 33 minutes from Brantford (pop. 90,200)
Hamilton is 75 minutes from Ajax (pop. 90,100)
Hamilton is 72 minutes from Pickering (pop. 87,800)
Hamilton is 59 minutes from Niagara Falls (pop. 82,200)
Hamilton is 93 minutes from Clarington (pop 77,800)
Hamilton is 78 minutes from Newmarket (pop. 74,300)
Hamilton is 66 minutes from Norfolk (pop.62,550)

Total: 7,072,475

There is actually more towns but I believe we have surpassed the magic number.

Well first off look at your driving times. Do you honestly think someone is going to drive an hour and half in some cases to go see a hockey game on a weeknight. I don't care how hockey mad a region is logistics of getting there is still a factor. Further more his second point is that they are all not sports fan.

 

[BrianSTC]

Let's not leap to wildly inaccurate conclusions based on skewed interpretations of the facts.

First of all, seeing that I was checking for tickets over the internet and seeing what was available first hand, how is that “skewed interpretations of the facts?â€

Second, seeing that Winnipeg is 30 hours away from Tampa Bay, I would have had to arrange tickets well before game day.

Third, it was widely reported that Games 1, 2, and 5 were not sold out. Hence, that was the reason that a group of us were contemplating the road trip. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have even checked in the first place.

 

[BrianSTC]

Decide how likely it is to get off work at 5:00pm, fight traffic through rush hour between [insert any of the cities listed] and the site of the arena in the Hamilton area (wherever it is), factor in the wait needed to actually park, and get through the gates and into said arena to be in the seat when the game starts at 7:00pm; then figure in the wait to get out of the arena after the game, the wait to get out of the parking lots, and back onto the road back to [insert city listed above]. I suspect that series of events is going to cut down quite a bit on how many people will consistently consider making that drive - and that's not even getting into the, "how many people have the means to even attend a game in the first place?" argument ... which I'm going to go out on a limb and state is nowhere near 100%.

Accounting for cities within 90 minutes of Hamilton is an extremely big reach when deciding the population that a team in Hamilton would consistently draw from, given what it would take to get to/from a game as I've described above. Even going the 45 minutes from Toronto might be a push - and that's assuming enough of the population in Toronto would actually split from supporting the Maple Leafs to pull for the new team. I expect it would end up being much more like a Yankees/Mets situation, where no matter what happens much of the area will still pull for the original team even 35-45 years later.

Well first off look at your driving times. Do you honestly think someone is going to drive an hour and half in some cases to go see a hockey game on a weeknight. I don't care how hockey mad a region is logistics of getting there is still a factor. Further more his second point is that they are all not sports fan.

Why is it that you guys attempt to prove a point by using the extremes?
There were 2 out of the 25 cities listed that were the full hour and a half away.
But of course, even though the bulk of NHL games are scheduled on the weekend, a weekday game is chosen to prove your point.
And it would be way too unreasonable to think that somebody might leave work early…

Keep in mind that the cities I listed was an incomplete list.
We will cut the drive time to 45 minutes…
Totaling the incomplete list and we still have a base of 4,782,550.

Say out of that number, only 1 percent were hockey fans that could afford to go the the games (and I am sure there the percent would be higher than 1 percent in hockey mad Canada). Then we have 47, 825 to fit into the 17,000 Copps Colliseum. And people wonder why the Leafs sell out all their games?

As for your Yankees/Mets example, according to your logic every New Yorker should be cheering for the Yankees since they were around 50 plus years before the Mets.

 

[lemieux32*]

Why is it that you guys attempt to prove a point by using the extremes?
There were 2 out of the 25 cities listed that were the full hour and a half away.
But of course, even though the bulk of NHL games are scheduled on the weekend, a weekday game is chosen to prove your point.

A quick look at the NHL schedule shows that the same number of games are played during the week as on the weekends and sometimes more games during the week.

And it would be way too unreasonable to think that somebody might leave work early…

No, not on occasions, but in looking at most schedules that would involve leaving early at least once a week. Very few employers are going to be happy with that.

Keep in mind that the cities I listed was an incomplete list.
We will cut the drive time to 45 minutes…
Totaling the incomplete list and we still have a base of 4,782,550.

Say out of that number, only 1 percent were hockey fans that could afford to go the the games (and I am sure there the percent would be higher than 1 percent in hockey mad Canada). Then we have 47, 825 to fit into the 17,000 Copps Colliseum. And people wonder why the Leafs sell out all their games?

Just because 47,825 fans can afford to go to games does not mean they will go to games. There are other things in life besides hockey. If your assumption was true then every team in every league would sell out every game.

As for your Yankees/Mets example, according to your logic every New Yorker should be cheering for the Yankees since they were around 50 plus years before the Mets.

Except New York had two NL teams that moved, two sets of fans heartbroken and looking for a new team (which is why the Mets came to New York) that hated the Yankees.

 

[angry_treefrog]

Panama City.

But why should it matter?

Because Panama City is an 8 hour drive to Sunrise (Panthers) and a 7 hour drive to Tampa.

It might as well be in another state.

 

[MoreOrr]

Because Panama City is an 8 hour drive to Sunrise (Panthers) and a 7 hour drive to Tampa.

It might as well be in another state.

And when I used to live in Nova Scotia, Halifax is about a 20 hour drive to the nearest NHL city, but about 80% of the province are hockey fans, and the local newspapers in the smallest towns always publish things about the NHL.

So, each time you say something like that, you don't realize that you're doing more to make the other guy's point.

 

[vivianmb]

Because Panama City is an 8 hour drive to Sunrise (Panthers) and a 7 hour drive to Tampa.

It might as well be in another state.

and flin flon is an 18 hr drive from any nhl city yet they cover the sport and panama city doesnt.

 

[angry_treefrog]

I fail to see how coverage of hockey in the Florida panhandle (deep South) has any relevance to South Florida (Northeastern colony). You might as well use hockey coverage in northern Kentucky to justify contracting the Penguins. Look at a map. It's just as far and just as culturally disparate.

 

[vivianmb]

how far is the pan handle from atlanta?

 

[angry_treefrog]

how far is the pan handle from atlanta?

6 hours on a map. With Atlanta's brutal traffic it's probably 8-9 hours.

 

[vivianmb]

so you figure they would at least have thrashers coverage,no?

 

[angry_treefrog]

so you figure they would at least have thrashers coverage,no?

I'm actually surprised they even have newspapers

 

[vivianmb]

why is that?