Where would be the most logical place to move a team?

[RingWraith]

Milwaukee would be an absolutely fantastic American NHL market if it didn't already have the Bucks, Brewers and Packers to support. I would more than any other city in the US like to see a team in Milwaukee but it does seem to me like the sporting scene there is already quite saturated. Shame. Wisconsin is hockey terrain for sure.

The most logical destinations to me are clearly Kansas City and southern Ontario. KC is ready and avidly waiting for a team to fall in their laps. The ownership seems capable and competent. Southern Ontario has so much more demand than is being supplied, it's almost a sin. I don't understand why this market is being shyed away from. Two franchises are being allowed to flounder in the New York metro yet another team near Toronto is scoffed at despite the obvious money that is bombarding the BoG's and MLSE's shield?

 

[KevFist]

^^^

For starters, it's already been mentioned numerous times how Balsillie has said that Copps would be temporary while a new building is in the process in Hamilton. Even without an NHL team, the process is in the works.
And yes, Copps as it stands now, does have luxury boxes. Hence Balsillie taking deposits on them starting next week.

How? The sale hasn't even been approved! the deal still has to be approved by the BOG and all Due Dilligence has to be completed.

The WHA was never NHL calibre hockey. That's absurd. And even if it was, the Toronto Toros were in the WHA as well, quite successful I might add. This while the Maple Leafs were still in existance. Think about your comments.

I would hardly call the Toronto Toros "quite successful." After all, they were moved to Birmingham, AL where they became the Birmingham Bulls. here's a quote from Magic City Hockey about the Toro's move.

renamed the Toros, the franchise struggled to average over 4,200 per game. The next season saw that average skyrocket to over 10,000 per season. However, the following season had the franchise faced with numerous problems including a decline in attendance and facility lease problems. The next move for the franchise would be a gamble that would not only confound the hockey establishment, but also spark a new era for a certain, unsuspecting southern town.

Why do we need more teams in the west? The population doesn't add up to the support that Southern Ontario has. Hell, there's less people in Alberta than in that Ontario horseshoe - and we support both the Oil and Flames quite fine.

And if you want a team in the West - say hello to the Winnipeg area.

Answer is simple....Balance. Can't have more teams in one conference. And Winnipeg won't happen again. If there are to be teams in the west, they'll be Kansas City, Portland, or Houston. The only canadian city I can ever see getting a franchise is Halifax.

 

[saskganesh]

the Toros' landlord was Harold Ballard. you can speculate why it didn't work out that well

Toros would have stayed in T.O if they pulled off a rink deal. They had Mahovlich, Napier, Nedomansky, Napier, nudist Gilles Gratton in net... drawing 10K a game at one point. not bad for an upstart league.

anyhow, I'm quite ok with Houston. It has a rich hockey history to go with its economic findamentals that seem to be in place. The rivalry with Dallas -- who have a tough travel schedule-- would be excellent.

 

[mouser]

Houston is a possibility but 2 teams in Texas is stretching things a bit.

I don't know whether Houston is a great idea or not, but it definitely would not be "stretching things a bit".

- Texas is the 2nd most populus US state (~23million).
- The #6 (Dallas) and #10 (Houston) US TV markets according to Nielsen.
- Over 200 miles apart.
- An NHL-ready arena available.


Any way you slice it, Houston is by far the largest city in the US without an NHL team.

 

[kdb209]

Is Les Alexander a hockey fan? How much would he spend to make it happen? The Aeros are doing fine. I don't think Les would spend 200 million for a team, but if one fell in his lap, yes, he'd take it. There is no huge demand for an NHL team in Houston. The master agreement favours the NBA. Many questions, but the answers will be in dollars and cents.

GHOST

The last public statements I can find from Alexander were about 18 months ago:

http://sportsbiznews.blogspot.com/search/label/Jim Basillie

Les Alexander the owner of the NBA’s Houston Rockets visited NHL commissioner Gary Bettman 19 months ago (May 2005) with the expressed purpose of making clear to the National Hockey League he was very interested in bringing an NHL franchise to America’s fourth biggest market. Alexander told The Houston Chronicle on November 3, 2005 he was ready to move forward with his plans to bring an NHL franchise to Houston’s Toyota Center.

"I am trying to get a team. I am trying," Alexander said. "I went to see the commissioner. I told him about my interest. I can't disclose teams, but I've been talking to people (in the NHL) and to investment bankers."

"I had conversations a month ago with an investment banking firm. I'm looking to buy a team. So people know my interest. You hear from time to time that teams might be for sale, then it changes or something else happens. But my interest is out there."

The Aeros are really a non-issue. Alexander doesn't own them - he just gets rent and arena revenues from them. He could get significantly more from an NHL team that he owns.

I don't know what you meant by "The master agreement favours the NBA". If you are talking about the master lease at the Toyota Center, its really a non-issue - if Alexander owns both the NBA Rockets and an NHL team as well as controlling the Toyota Center, he would just be splitting revenues with himself.

 

[Golden Foppa]

That's the thing with Las Vegas. Other sports avoid it, not just because it's what? the 54th largest TV market in the United States - but because it's Las Vegas.

I've been to Vegas a couple times, and the last thing on my mind - as a rabid hockey fan... was hockey. This is a city, that is an adult's playground. You can do ANYTHING but watch hockey. The excitement of the city itself, just walking down the strip is distracting enough - let alone having 2 tickets to the "Las Vegas NHLers vs. the St. Louis Blues".

I'd probably pass.

Las Vegas locals stay away from the strip as much as possible. The strip is for tourists, so what a local is thinking about or wants to do is much different than what a tourist is thinking about or wants to do.

 

[Bruins1976]

Answer is simple....Balance. Can't have more teams in one conference. And Winnipeg won't happen again. If there are to be teams in the west, they'll be Kansas City, Portland, or Houston. The only canadian city I can ever see getting a franchise is Halifax.

I have mostly been just reading, and while I can understand your comment that Winnipeg might not be a great place for a team I have to ask why you think Halifax would be any better. You do realise that the economy in the Maritimes is just about the worst in Canada.

I can understand Houston and Portland probably being better, even KC with the right owner, but Halifax?

 

[kurri_17]

If there are to be teams in the west, they'll be Kansas City, Portland, or Houston. The only canadian city I can ever see getting a franchise is Halifax.

Sorry Halifax, 350,000 people (or 400, or 500) does not an NHL city make. And Hamilton is not a 500k city - it's part of one long strip of cities one after another - I'm certain people have a misconception about this.
New York/Newark/Jersey City/etc doesn't have a dividing line - neither does Toronto/Mississauga/Oakville/Burlington/Hamilton - it's one big mass of people - and then there are another million people within 45 mins-1 hr outside that loop.

Halifax/Dartmouth has no large cities nearby to draw from except, Halifax/DM.

Maybe in 20 yrs.

And don't get me wrong, I like Halifax, I spent two of the last 8 months working there. I think the hockey fans would get lost at the Bars on the way to the arena though... I know I did.

 

[kurri_17]

I have mostly been just reading, and while I can understand your comment that Winnipeg might not be a great place for a team I have to ask why you think Halifax would be any better. You do realise that the economy in the Maritimes is just about the worst in Canada.

I can understand Houston and Portland probably being better, even KC with the right owner, but Halifax?

The economy in Halifax is actually decent. And wage levels around the Canadian avg, not well below like other parts of the maritimes. If it had a million people, it could support a team.

 

[kurri_17]

Las Vegas locals stay away from the strip as much as possible. The strip is for tourists, so what a local is thinking about or wants to do is much different than what a tourist is thinking about or wants to do.

OF COURSE! because what happens in Vegas, Stays in Vegas. If you live in Vegas: Your Spouse would know!

 

[Bruins1976]

The economy in Halifax is actually decent. And wage levels around the Canadian avg, not well below like other parts of the maritimes. If it had a million people, it could support a team.

Sorry kurri I think you misunderstood what I was saying to oneel. Never mind that I feel Hamilton would be better than Winnipeg, I found it intriging that oneel felt Winnipeg would most definately not happen again while insisting that Halifax would be a good market.

As for the economy between Nova Scotia and Manitoba; here is a link that shows the Manitoba economy for wages is higher.

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/070503/d070503a.htm

 

[kurri_17]

Sorry kurri I think you misunderstood what I was saying to oneel. Never mind that I feel Hamilton would be better than Winnipeg, I found it intriging that oneel felt Winnipeg would most definately not happen again while insisting that Halifax would be a good market.

As for the economy between Nova Scotia and Manitoba; here is a link that shows the Manitoba economy for wages is higher.

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/070503/d070503a.htm

I didn't mean you with the Hamilton ramble... meant in general. People talking about Hamilton as a small market. *scratches head*

As to wages, Halifax is way higher than the Nova Scotia average. 2005 numbers show halifax with slighty higher avg income than winnipeg. http://ius.uwinnipeg.ca/CRC/RH-06.pdf -- Winnipeg is likely slightly cheaper to live in though. And there's the bonus of ice 8 months a year ;-)

 

[Respect Your Edler]

The logical place is wherever an owner believes he can make a go of it. His money, his risk.

That's what the NHL needs more of. Less of this Bettman central planning garbage, if someone thinks they can sustain a team somewhere, let them.

 

[HerrAlex]

iD Go straight to hartford

 

[vivianmb]

iD Go straight to hartford

probably be better off in new haven. more access to the southern money in the state(read REAL money.)

 

[Shanker]

Houston needs to be at the top of the list for many reasons:

- 4th largest city in the country (#6 metro area).
- Larger than Kansas City and Las Vegas combined.
- Arguably the most NHL-ready arena without a team (KC also NHL-ready)
- Houston has a great hockey history: 4 championships in three different leagues (WHA, IHL, AHL), and Gordie Howe played there.
- A franchise in Houston would be great for the Dallas Stars, who don't have a division rival even in the same time zone.

And most importantly: I'm moving to Houston later this year!!!

 

[nosl]

My Take

Winnipeg - Proven hockey market / Sold out World Junior/NHL exhibition games
Hamilton/Kitchener-Waterloo - Balsillie ownership group in place
Québec - Tops major junior hockey with an average of 10000+ fans

followed by...

Oklahoma City - Tops all minor league hockey teams with an average of nearly 9000 fans (year after year) - Took NBA's Hornets in and supported the team as their own

Houston, Las Vegas, Seattle & Portland don't draw anywhere near what the centres above draw for support.

 

[GLARES*]

Cincinatti

 

[Devonator]

No more bloody nhl teams in Canada...and I say that as a Western Canadian...were trying to build this sport up in the States and Canadian teams suck at drawing fans down south...BUT if a Canadian team were ever to get another franchise, give it to Quebec City...not Hamilton or Winterpeg...

As for where any newly relocateds teams should go, Milwakee, Seattle or Portland....all have been excellent markets for minor league hockey and all could easily support an NHL team....ugh...I cannot even stand the idea of hamilton getting a team.....

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

New Orleans would be a stretch..

But the New Orleans Voodoo would be one hell of a team name.

I think that it could be that lump of coal that could turn into the diamond... with some marketing genious and a strong invester... I could see maybe a possibility there...

That is if we're talking unconventional markets.


Other than that I'd say Green Bay, Portland and maybe something like kansas City or maybe a Salt Lake City team.

 

[TheDanceOfMaternity]

It's really too bad that Seattle and Portland do not have teams.

To ignore that part of the country because of California, Florida, Texas etc is kinda skewed.

 

[MoreOrr]

No more bloody nhl teams in Canada...and I say that as a Western Canadian...were trying to build this sport up in the States and Canadian teams suck at drawing fans down south...BUT if a Canadian team were ever to get another franchise, give it to Quebec City...not Hamilton or Winterpeg...

As for where any newly relocateds teams should go, Milwakee, Seattle or Portland....all have been excellent markets for minor league hockey and all could easily support an NHL team....ugh...I cannot even stand the idea of hamilton getting a team.....

I'll 2nd all of that... though I wouldn't even go for Quebec City getting another franchise... but I also suppose I wouldn't be so vehement against the idea of Hamilton (or any of them) as you apparently are.

 

[MoreOrr]

It's really too bad that Seattle and Portland do not have teams.

To ignore that part of the country because of California, Florida, Texas etc is kinda skewed.

, Arizona, Georgia, soon to be Nevada...

Yep!

Maybe someone out there can provide a very good reason for this. I really can't.

 

[BrianSTC]

Why, oh why would you attempt to put another team in the southern US??
Stop trying to force a sport on a population who couldn't care less!

Hamilton will get a team.
Why?
Because Jim Balsillie is sane and wants to make money.
Therefore put a hockey franchise in an area that actually has hockey fans!

Winnipeg deserves a team, btw.

Houston or KC should only get a team if one of the failed southern US franchises wants to take a chance on another southern US market!

Bottom line: The only way the NHL is gonna make it work is to build the NHL back up in northern US markets like Boston or Chicago - where they actually know what a hockey puck is instead of "introducing" hockey to people who have only seen ice in their drinks!!

 

[Dadof5boys]

Why, oh why would you attempt to put another team in the southern US??
Stop trying to force a sport on a population who couldn't care less!

Hamilton will get a team.
Why?
Because Jim Balsillie is sane and wants to make money.
Therefore put a hockey franchise in an area that actually has hockey fans!

Winnipeg deserves a team, btw.

Houston or KC should only get a team if one of the failed southern US franchises wants to take a chance on another southern US market!

Bottom line: The only way the NHL is gonna make it work is to build the NHL back up in northern US markets like Boston or Chicago - where they actually know what a hockey puck is instead of "introducing" hockey to people who have only seen ice in their drinks!!

Spoken like a true elitist