Where was hockey first played?

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by robwangjing, Oct 17, 2013.

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  1. robwangjing

    robwangjing Registered User

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    This has always confused me, since I first read that it originates from the UK but when I spoke with a Canadian in Beijing he told me it originates from Canada and that in the UK they played football on the ice and not ice hockey.

    And I spoke to a Russian and he said ice ice hockey comes from Russian hockey which was first played with not a puck but with a small ball. And later became two sports.

    So where did it originate, which country gave birth to this sport? Does anyone really know?:laugh:

    UK, Canada, Russia or other place?
     
  2. alko

    alko Registered User

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    A time ago i saw an article, where was mentioned, that ice-hockey came from native americans. And no, it was not Winnetou :) .
     
  3. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

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    Where was something resembling ice hockey first played?

    Or where was something resembling ice hockey that developed into modern ice hockey first played?

    Here is the Windsor Nova Scotia claim

    http://www.birthplaceofhockey.com

    Did this lead to the modern game?

    Bandy certainly predates it, but is not considered to have lead to modern ice hockey.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
  4. feffan

    feffan Registered User

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    You can never really say. Canada has their claim, the brits have their, if you count bandy the nordic countries and Russia have their claim, and the dutch have their claim with paintings to show something similiar to ice hockey (probably earlie kolven, but who knows...), and so on...

    As with most sports, it evolved a little bit here and a little bit there. The first known entry about something simular to ice hockey is probably knattleikr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knattleikr

    One of few sports that claim to trace to an exact origin is basketball.
     
  5. Hanji

    Hanji Registered User

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    Obviously the modern game was codified in Canada. But like feffan said, various forms of the game have been played for ages all over Europe.
     
  6. revolverjgw

    revolverjgw Registered User

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    Chris Chelios' driveway in ancient Macedonia
     
  7. Signature

    Signature #keepyourstickontheice

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    Probably on ice, if you're talking ice hockey.
     
  8. Brainiac

    Brainiac Registered Offender

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    :handclap:

    I've heard they were using frozen mammoth's dang as a puck back then.

    Makes you wonder, has the game got too clean with time?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
  9. Calirose

    Calirose Registered User

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    Kings Edgehill School Windsor NS. Home of Debate Camp Canada. This debate is over.
     
  10. bucks_oil

    bucks_oil Registered User

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    Heh.... Also invented by a Canadian ;)

    (though admitedly, he had the benefit of being stationed in the US at the time)
     
  11. A long long long time ago,

    Native Americans played lacrosse during the warm seasons. Yet when it was cold and there was ice on the ground, lacrosse was not really an option so they created a sport on the ground and... ON ICE!

    Theres a lot of crazy stories out there on the topic. Real legendary stories and folk tales.

    1 story I recall was how a deity enslaved the land. And that a man came to the rescue to save them. They played a game of hockey kind of. They were asked to poke at a skull on ice and have it slide over across the huge lake to knock over some sticks or something (basically shoot at). The deity had missed. And the man would have too but a gust of wind helped him succeed and free the land.

    Legends have it that tribes would play the game among each tribes. Each tribe had a team of dozens of men. Some tribes had women too. And the zone of play would apparently be between tribes, sometimes miles long. And like hockey, the tribes would have to score a skull or something between two poles located in the other tribes center. Idk lol. Imagine doznes of native americans playing this? I think they used wood and bones for skates.

    One tribe would win and then kill the loser. And they say that fighting is an issue lol

    Pilgrams in the 1700s played it as well on frozen ponds. It was played with wooden sticks and a ball of some kind.


    It started to be more organized later on in the 1800s I believe. In Montreal they played the first organized game. And it took off.

    Game use to be played with a ball... then they cut it in half, then they made it a disc (puck).

    Puck is originated from the word poke. Seriously. To poke at.

    NHL and organized hockey started with 7 men, an extra position called rover. Basically wild player. And there was no forward passing. Funny is that Lester Patrick who played Rover, helped abolish the position and forward passing. As well as other things we see today.
     
  12. ACTUALLY YES I FORGOT THIS. Idk about mammoths lol. But they would use animal feces
     
  13. Hawksfan2828

    Hawksfan2828 Registered User

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    I'm sure almost all cultures have been knocking a ball, rock, cow pie, (or anything that is small) around on the ground with a stick as a "game" for thousands of years...

    The goal of hockey and the way it's played has a lot in common with many past and present sports throughout the world...
     
  14. robwangjing

    robwangjing Registered User

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    Thanks for all the answers. I believe this might be a question too difficult to answer. But we might conclude it's origin is either from a cold place in Europe-Russia or North America.:nod:

    Or perhaps I should put in a Chinese theory in the context. :sarcasm:

    Ice hockey dates back to the Qing Dynasty in China. Emperor Chongzhen introduced ice hockey to the people to calm people down and give them some relaxing activity. This on the other hand led to massive uproaring due the imperial team beating the peasant team 13-2 in the first game. And with this failure on his hands, emperor Chongzhen took his own life and banned ice hockey in China for many years to come. And this is why ice hockey is not very popular in China, we are ashamed of our past.:sarcasm:
     
  15. Hammer Time

    Hammer Time Registered User

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    Well, there was this guy in Ancient Egypt, right after they realized that having the Nile to fertilize their farms meant they didn't have to hunt and gather no more, who took a log and shot a skull between two pyramids to celebrate. And thus began the game of hockey. :sarcasm:

    As far as stick-and-ball games on ice go, there are records of them being played in northern and eastern Europe during the Little Ice Age (15th-18th centuries). So yeah, Russia/Sweden/UK/Netherlands/anywhere else cold probably has a claim. The Aboriginals in North America probably did the same type of thing. No one really knows who did it first.

    What Canada claims to have originated is the modern, organized game of hockey with rinks, rules, and refs. All those earlier people played the game outside on a frozen pond or river, but in the winter of 1874/75, a civil engineer/lawyer/figure skating judge named James Creighton decided to try playing hockey indoors and wrote down a list of rules for it. On March 3, 1875, at the Victoria Rink in Montreal, Creighton and a few of his friends played the first indoor game of hockey using the new rules. So yeah, if you're talking about organized hockey then Montreal is the place you're looking for.
     
  16. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    When was field hockey first played? That's another sport.

    When he asks about "hockey" he is tacitly asking about the sport of "ice hockey".

    Anyone who thinks field hockey and ice hockey are the same sport is not familiar with both or else glosses over the very real differences between each.

    Scandinavia and Canada have the earliest recorded games on the ice with sticks.

    The history of ice hockey, I contend, truly begins with the puck.
     
  17. Brooklanders*

    Brooklanders* Registered User

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    But hockey wasn't invented by a Canadian.
     
  18. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    ... :laugh: you guys just wont let this subject drop huh? Well OK then. Here, heres a link to the August body known as the Society for International Hockey Research, who have exhaustively researched this very subject, and a fascinating one it be. I would strongly urge you read this in detail, as it truly is the definitive outline of the when's & wherefores' of hockeys development & who & where the game of hockey came to be what we ourselves today recognize it as being. Highly edifying, entertaining, even if it does come across as dry & powdery...

    www.sihrhockey.org/origins_main.cfm
     
  19. Colorado Mackinnons

    Colorado Mackinnons Lets go Aves?

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    There were many things that were like hockey that were played for a long time, usually adaptations of other sports by playing them on ice. But the first real, hockey sticks and skates game was played between two teams at McGill university at some point in time.
     
  20. Iain Fyffe

    Iain Fyffe Hockey fact-checker

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    This depends on exactly what you mean by hockey. The answer can range from somewhere in the mists of history, to Montreal in 1875.


    The Windsor claim is based on a passage in a work of fiction, something said by a fictional character who (even in the context of the fictional story) was guessing about another character's past rather than relating something from his own past. The Windsor proponents always call The Attache a memoir rather than a novel, meaning either they have never read it themselves or are intentionally misprepresenting it.


    The rover was gone from the eastern game by the time the NHL came around, and Lester Patrick had nothing to do with eliminating it. In fact, when it was eliminated in the east, his league on the west coast continued to use the position for many years.

    Sounds like you've been reading Splendid is the Sun.

    This is valid.

    Interesting, I make the very same argument in my book. In reference to the modern, organized version of the game. In 1875 they decided to use a puck. If you consider a game played with a ball to be hockey, then you'd have to call bandy hockey. The only other ways to differentiate it would be things like the number of players and the size of the playing surface or nets, or sticks, and all of these details have changed over the life of modern hockey so aren't useful to differentiate them.
     
  21. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    The most common one I see as well. But from Windsor to Montreal I've heard a lot of different versions. Let's just say, somewhere on the St. Lawrence River.
     
  22. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    First pucks essentially being just a blank cut from a log, app 3-4"'s in diameter by about 2"'s thick no? Readily available & cheap. As in free.... and yes, the oft referred to reference in that novel anecdotal, thin on actual documentation (as you say imaginings) from the period earlier than when that novel was published. Simply doesnt hold up to scrutiny absent supporting evidence.... I go with the SIHR's time-lines & attributions, Creighton, Montreal Rules.
     
  23. Theokritos

    Theokritos Moderator

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    Absolutely agree. The most senseful way to deal with it is to distinguish between ice hockey with the ball and ice hockey with the puck. From a tradition Canadian point of view it might seem strange or redundant, but that's exactly what they did in Europe when the game with the puck was introduced and started to widely (but not fully) replace the game with the ball. In the early phase many teams could and would switch from one to another, depending on which opponent they played against. The puck is really what defines Canadian ice hockey.
     
  24. Chrisinroch

    Chrisinroch Registered User

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    Toronto, if this board is any indication.
     
  25. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    ... :laugh: Nice shot Chris. But no, certainly wasnt Muddy York back in the day.
     

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