Where does Selänne rank on the all-time players list?

JackSlater

Registered User
Apr 27, 2010
18,042
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More similar than Sakic in 2002? The Czech Republic didn’t medal, and Jagr went scoreless in the Bronze Medal Game in 2015.

Karlsson could have won as the tournament’s leading scorer in 2014, just as Selanne could have won in 1998 and 2006 as the tournament’s leading scorer. There’s only been five tournament MVPs in the era - and three of those were on teams that went 2-1 in the playoff round. That Selanne won in a near identical situation as the only other skater to win MVP - that is being the best player in the playoff round while being outscored overall - indicates that while sentiment may play a role, so does precedent.

And this ignores the most important part: it doesn’t matter if Selanne is or is not MVP. It’s an easy short-hand way of referencing the fact that Selanne was the best international performer of his era, with excellent performances at 27, 35, and 43. Whether they announce his name or Hasek’s or Niittymaki’s or Karlsson’s, he’s not having a one-off great Olympic; it was a trend for him just as it was a trend for Jari Kurri to perform excellent in the pressure situations he was afforded: the NHL playoffs.

At least up until 30.

The comparison with Sakic isn't very good. Sakic isn't a clear cut MVP for me, but he did dominate the gold medal game, by far the most important game in the tournament, with four points. That's a far cry from Selanne having a strong quarter-final, doing little in the elimination game (the most important game that his team played) and then having two goals once his team was already eliminated. Selanne also did nothing in the most important game his team played in the preliminary round and missed (going from memory) roughly half of one of the other games in that round. Karlsson was a better player for a team that was more successful in the tournament. He would have been a better choice than Selanne. That doesn't take away from Selanne as a player, but no one should consider him to have been the best player in that tournament or even the most valuable. I wouldn't put much stock into any IIHF awards from unless it's a tournament I didn't have the ability to watch.
 

quoipourquoi

Goaltender
Jan 26, 2009
10,123
4,126
Hockeytown, MI
The comparison with Sakic isn't very good.

I mean, it would be great if there was another Olympic MVP skater to compare him to in the NHL era, but it’s just the two of them. Both on 4-1-1 teams. Both scoring two goals in their respective medal games. Both leading the 3-game playoff round in scoring. Neither having a memorable round robin.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,290
just as Selanne could have won in 1998 and 2006 as the tournament’s leading scorer.

Even if we disregard Hasek in 98 he’s not winning tournament MVP when he’s getting out-dueled by Bure in the semi-final like that, and there’s only one point between them. Wont happen, hence why Bure was voted best forward of the tourny. And again, didn’t outscore his linemate (Koivu).

Bure also out-dueled Selänne in the 93 playoffs, but that’s a story for another thread.
 

quoipourquoi

Goaltender
Jan 26, 2009
10,123
4,126
Hockeytown, MI
Even if we disregard Hasek in 98 he’s not winning tournament MVP when he’s getting out-dueled by Bure in the semi-final like that, and there’s only one point between them. Wont happen, hence why Bure was voted best forward of the tourny. And again, didn’t outscore his linemate (Koivu).

And again you get hung up debating the least significant part. Who gets named MVP does not change the performance. Hall and MacKinnon’s seasons didn’t change yesterday.

Even if there weren’t awards for the Olympics, Selanne was very, very good. Across 16 years. He established a trend for being very, very good in Olympic hockey.

Even when he was 43.

And the point was raised to compare his longevity to a player that didn’t do too much after 30. Like finishing 3rd in goals at 36. Like finishing 8th in scoring at 40. Like fulfilling whatever qualifier you feel the need to assign to leading the playoff round of a best-on-best tournament in scoring at 43.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
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It’s an easy short-hand way of referencing the fact that Selanne was the best international performer of his era, with excellent performances at 27, 35, and 43.

One of the best, sure, but I'm not sure I would place him as the best international performer of his era. There's a few other players who can contend for that title. Mats Sundin, for example, the Finns used to pull their hair in frustration because he always managed to beast it out against them. Saku Koivu is another one with an excellent international resume. I'm not sure he was necessarily better in international tourneys than Selänne, but I think I can make a reasonable case he was more valuable, because of Finland's measly center depth. And then you have P. Forsberg, who is a double triple-gold club member. Hasek also used to show up when he had the chance (.948 SV% in 2002 is quite good).

2 goals in the Bronze game against a listless American team in Sochi is nice, but Selänne lacks an international big game moment where he really put his team over the top. 06 final against SWE could have been that moment, but he didn't do it. As a Swede I'll have to say that Finland played the best hockey of that tournament, but the end result didn't surprise me. That tourney win will always be a bit tainted for hardcore Swedish fans because of the deliberate loss against Slovakia to avoid Canada though. The most embarrassing thing was that our coach basically spelled it out in public that he was scared of Canada.
 

Bustedprospect

Registered User
Mar 10, 2006
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That 06 Swedish team had around 8 Hall of Famers on it. Selanne was the only one on Finland. Sure Finland had a couple of good players through his career but its nothing like Sweden or Canada. Finland really had no business going so deep in many of those tournaments.
 

Conspiracy Theorist

Registered User
Jan 30, 2016
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That 06 Swedish team had around 8 Hall of Famers on it. Selanne was the only one on Finland. Sure Finland had a couple of good players through his career but its nothing like Sweden or Canada. Finland really had no business going so deep in many of those tournaments.
1998 was a great win, 2004 was a tie. I was certain Finland could beat Sweden in 2006 so it was shocking when it didn't happen.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,290
That 06 Swedish team had around 8 Hall of Famers on it. Selanne was the only one on Finland. Sure Finland had a couple of good players through his career but its nothing like Sweden or Canada. Finland really had no business going so deep in many of those tournaments.

Sure, but when you watched those Finnish teams you never got the impression that Selänne carried everything by himself offensively. It was always him and Saku Koivu, hence why they were most often tied (or very close) in points. They also had Lehtinen who's a 3 time Selke winner, solid defense (Timonen, Salo, Numminen, Lydman), strong goaltending (Niittymäki) and solid depth/role players (M. Koivu, Kapanen, Peltonen). Sweden had a stronger team on paper though, and that plus the psychological advantage is probably why they won.
 

Merya

Jokerit & Finland; anti-theist
Sep 23, 2008
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[mod] If you want to diminish Selänne for injuries, then I assume you don't have Orr or Lemieux in the top four. If you do, then stfu and appreciate 3 best pre and 3 best after injury seasons that rare players have shown. Fill up with "mediocre" seasons and you have a storied career that rivals that of some alltime greats.
 
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Plural

Registered User
Mar 10, 2011
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One of the best, sure, but I'm not sure I would place him as the best international performer of his era. There's a few other players who can contend for that title. Mats Sundin, for example, the Finns used to pull their hair in frustration because he always managed to beast it out against them. Saku Koivu is another one with an excellent international resume. I'm not sure he was necessarily better in international tourneys than Selänne, but I think I can make a reasonable case he was more valuable, because of Finland's measly center depth. And then you have P. Forsberg, who is a double triple-gold club member. Hasek also used to show up when he had the chance (.948 SV% in 2002 is quite good).

2 goals in the Bronze game against a listless American team in Sochi is nice, but Selänne lacks an international big game moment where he really put his team over the top. 06 final against SWE could have been that moment, but he didn't do it. As a Swede I'll have to say that Finland played the best hockey of that tournament, but the end result didn't surprise me. That tourney win will always be a bit tainted for hardcore Swedish fans because of the deliberate loss against Slovakia to avoid Canada though. The most embarrassing thing was that our coach basically spelled it out in public that he was scared of Canada.

As a guy who feared Sundin I can say without a doubt that Selanne was the better international player. I feel confident in saying he was the best of his era.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,290
[mod] If you want to diminish Selänne for injuries, then I assume you don't have Orr or Lemieux in the top four. If you do, then stfu and appreciate 3 best pre and 3 best after injury seasons that rare players have shown. Fill up with "mediocre" seasons and you have a storied career that rivals that of some alltime greats.

Is this post directed at me? I haven't even said anything about Selänne's injuries, and I don't care where Orr and Lemieux ranks. All time rankings isn't really my cup of tea, I'm more interested in periodical/biographical stuff.
 
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