Where does Chara rank now among all-time Defensemen?

[Intangir]

1 Orr
2 Harvey
3 Shore
4 Bourque
5 Lidstrom
6 Red Kelly
7 Potvin
8 Robinson
9 Fetisov
10 Park
11 King Clancy
12 Pilote
13 Chelios
14 Coffey
15 Seibert
16 Cleghorn
17 Salming
18 Gadsby
19 Savard
20 Stevens
21 Vasiliev
22 Leetch
23 Horton
24 Pronger
25 MacInnis

That's 25 guys I rank ahead of Chara, and that's off the top of my head (and HHOF biography, stats, as well as HFB 'The History of Hockey' board player ranking). So, I guess I'd say Chara is somewhere between 30-50, which IMO is incredibly good still.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

He was borderline top 50 before the season began. With another Norris-worthy season and an excellent playoff performance under his belt, he moves up, probably to about 40th all-time. I think Niedermayer was about 33rd and Rob Blake about 44th on the list I made last year. At minimum, Chara has closed the gap with Blake

What's amazing about Chara is that no matter who his partner is, they play so much better with him. He can play right or left side, play with offensive Dmen, physical Dmen, mediocre Dmen, veteran or rookie Dmen. But they will look and play better with him.

I think your placement of him all-time is quite accurate.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

it's interesting, niedermayer, blake, and chara.

i said in another thread that i have niedermayer well ahead of chara (not in terms of the number of guys between them on an all-time list, but in sheer distance between what they've accomplished) because they have nearly identical regular season accomplishments, but chara has a long way to go before he approaches niedermayer in the playoffs.

now niedermayer vs. blake comes up from time to time here. the consensus has always seemed to be that they're very close, but niedermayer tends to get overrated relative to blake because his peak was five years later. which, long story short, means i think blake is still ahead of chara. but then blake had accomplished every relevant thing he accomplished in his career up to the that chara currently is, so chara may well catch and even pass him in a couple of years.

 

[Hardyvan123]

The biggest problem here is with Orr behind Lidstrom.


To answer the question, Chara's not one of the all time best D men at this point.

Actually Potvin behind Coffey is a bigger problem for me as I can see an argument (and have presented it myself) of Lidstrom's , longevity, and era (the quality of opposition and a whole ton more is involved here), trumping Orr's peak.

Hard to say where Chara lies right now, somewhere in the 20-30 range possibly but he is only 33 and still adding to his resume.

 

[begbeee]

Just want to ask, dont want to create new thread...

Did Chara lost every Game 7 of his career until this season?

 

[Reds4Life]

I'd rank him somewhere around 45-50.

 

[Giroux tha Damaja]

Just want to ask, dont want to create new thread...

Did Chara lost every Game 7 of his career until this season?

That might be Pronger who had that claim to fame. Not 100% though.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Just for the LOLs, here's the current Hockey-reference ELO player ratings for D-men:

1 Orr
2 Shore
3 Bourque
4 Robinson
5 Harvey
6 Lidstrom
7 MacInnis
8 Coffey
9 Chelios
10 Kelly
11 Potvin
12 Horton
13 D. Wilson
14 Park
15 Lapointe
16 S. Savard
17 R. Blake
18 S. Niedermayer
19 S. Stevens
20 Pronger
21 Langway
22 Leetch
23 Chara
24 Salming
25 M. Howe
26 Pilote
27 L. Murphy
28 M. Schmidt
29 Suter
30 Housley

 

[EagleBelfour]

Just for the LOLs, here's the current Hockey-reference ELO player ratings for D-men:

1 Orr
2 Shore
3 Bourque
4 Robinson
5 Harvey
6 Lidstrom
7 MacInnis
8 Coffey
9 Chelios
10 Kelly
11 Potvin
12 Horton
13 D. Wilson
14 Park
15 Lapointe
16 S. Savard
17 R. Blake
18 S. Niedermayer
19 S. Stevens
20 Pronger
21 Langway
22 Leetch
23 Chara
24 Salming
25 M. Howe
26 Pilote
27 L. Murphy
28 M. Schmidt
29 Suter
30 Housley

Actually, that's a very nice list. My only qualm is that Milt Schmidt is far too low. In the 1940's, Schmidt was just an incredible defenceman. Enter sarcasm here.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Sneaky response there.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Actually Potvin behind Coffey is a bigger problem for me as I can see an argument (and have presented it myself) of Lidstrom's , longevity, and era (the quality of opposition and a whole ton more is involved here), trumping Orr's peak.

Hard to say where Chara lies right now, somewhere in the 20-30 range possibly but he is only 33 and still adding to his resume.

Agreed, Coffey over Potvin is not good.

But Lidstrom could play another 10 years and he still wouldn't be a better player than Bobby Orr.

 

[Epsilon]

I've said this a couple of other times, but the gap from Orr to whoever you like at #2 (usually one of Harvey, Bourque, Shore, Lidstrom) is much bigger than the gap from the #2 person (whoever it is) to at least #8 (since that takes you through those 4 plus Potvin, Kelly, and Robinson) and possibly further down to even the 11-12 range (something like Fetisov, Chelios, Park, Coffey for the next four slots?).

 

[C77]

Chara's peak has been very good. The guy completely shuts down his side of the ice on most nights. Bruins fans take him for granted.

Speaking on pure shutdown defensive ability...Chara at his peak performance is probably one of the best of all time.

Anyways in terms of a career...Chara is much less impressive compared to the all-time greats

Of the defensemen that I feel I can comment on....(I haven't seen enough Larry Robinson/Doug Harvey/Eddie Shore to judge them.)

1. Orr
2. Potvin
3. Bourque
4. Lidstrom

It's hard to compare the guys from different eras....I feel that the style of play in the 80s involved everyone on the ice making mistakes including Ray Bourque. Part of the reason that Lidstrom is so remarkable is that he rarely makes mistakes....but part of that is that the game is so tight now....players aren't on the ice for 2-3 minutes per shift.

 

[Hardyvan123]

I've said this a couple of other times, but the gap from Orr to whoever you like at #2 (usually one of Harvey, Bourque, Shore, Lidstrom) is much bigger than the gap from the #2 person (whoever it is) to at least #8 (since that takes you through those 4 plus Potvin, Kelly, and Robinson) and possibly further down to even the 11-12 range (something like Fetisov, Chelios, Park, Coffey for the next four slots?).

Not to derail the topic but I can only see this if we are talking about peak and even then Orr's peak over Potvin isn't that big really.

Generally when I talk about alltime, one of the criteria is length of career and how they played over that period of time as well.

If Orr never has knee problems and plays till around 33-35 then I can see the gap argument but unless we are only talking about peak then I just don't see it.

 

[BLONG7]

Nearing top 10 territory.

No way...not even close...sorry.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Just for the LOLs, here's the current Hockey-reference ELO player ratings for D-men:

1 Orr
2 Shore
3 Bourque
4 Robinson
5 Harvey
6 Lidstrom
7 MacInnis
8 Coffey
9 Chelios
10 Kelly
11 Potvin
12 Horton
13 D. Wilson
14 Park
15 Lapointe
16 S. Savard
17 R. Blake
18 S. Niedermayer
19 S. Stevens
20 Pronger
21 Langway
22 Leetch
23 Chara
24 Salming
25 M. Howe
26 Pilote
27 L. Murphy
28 M. Schmidt
29 Suter
30 Housley

Not a bad list considering that the site uses a point shares system (which accounts for regular season play only) for NHL play only which might alter the perception of some players on the anyone who can vote people that go on there.

For example, Potvin has a total PS of 160 compared to Orr's 152 and Orr has 5 seasons better than Potvin's best season PS.

Chara BTW is 197th on their point share system and Housley is 15th for what it is worth.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Nearing top 10 territory.

New to the sport I see..

Hes somewhere between 50-60, hes no where close to top 10 or even top 30 for that matter.

A few days ago he would be grouped with guys like Doug Wilson..

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Just for the LOLs, here's the current Hockey-reference ELO player ratings for D-men:

1 Orr
2 Shore
3 Bourque
4 Robinson
5 Harvey
6 Lidstrom
7 MacInnis
8 Coffey
9 Chelios
10 Kelly
11 Potvin
12 Horton
13 D. Wilson
14 Park
15 Lapointe
16 S. Savard
17 R. Blake
18 S. Niedermayer
19 S. Stevens
20 Pronger
21 Langway
22 Leetch
23 Chara
24 Salming
25 M. Howe
26 Pilote
27 L. Murphy
28 M. Schmidt
29 Suter
30 Housley

Thats just crazy.

Doug Wilson at 13???

Those HR ratings are just loony.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I think Housley is very underrated.

Why with the Coffey hate? He was extraordinary on some extraordinary teams. He wasn't a conventional Dman, but my god was he ever effective.


And sorry, but Lidstrom is ahead of Bourque.


Too many oldies on this board simply think older = better, when it isn't true. Lidstrom dominated in so many ways Bourque never did.



BTW, Chara is behind Housley. Housley was oftentimes a gamebreaker... something Chara has never been.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I

BTW, Chara is behind Housley. Housley was oftentimes a gamebreaker... something Chara has never been.

Sure, Housley was a gamebreaker all right... for both his team and the opponent...

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I think Housley is very underrated.

Why with the Coffey hate? He was extraordinary on some extraordinary teams. He wasn't a conventional Dman, but my god was he ever effective.


And sorry, but Lidstrom is ahead of Bourque.


Too many oldies on this board simply think older = better, when it isn't true. Lidstrom dominated in so many ways Bourque never did.

BTW, Chara is behind Housley. Housley was oftentimes a gamebreaker... something Chara has never been.

Really?

Such as?