Where does Chara rank now among all-time Defensemen?

[Epsilon]

Chara would have to win about 3 more Norris trophies in order to even start approaching the top 10, and produce some more consistent playoff performances.

1. Orr
2. Harvey
3. Bourque
4. Lidstrom
5. Shore
6. Potvin
7. Kelly
8. Robinson
9. Fetisov
10. Chelios

HMs: Park, Pilote, Coffey, Clancy, Stevens, Siebert, Horton, MacInnis, Cleghorn, Pronger

That's a LOT of big names to pass over just to get into the top 20, and I didn't even list everyone who's arguable for it.

 

[Barrie22]

First, give me a break with Lidstrom over Orr! I'll take Bourque, Harvey, Shore and Robinson over Lidstrom, as well.

I believe Chara could be #8 or #9 on that list with a couple of more awards and another Cup. Paul Coffey shouldn't be on that list, IMO.

like i said, i don't agree with the list, i was just copying someone else's top 10. the guy who made the list used not enough games played and cup wins for the reason lidstrom was over orr.

but the point remains the same, all of these players on that list are all better defensively and or offensively then chara is. you can't ignore coffey's 1531 points in his career which places him 12th all time in nhl scoring (2nd among defensmen, behind only bourque)

 

[Charlie McAdaddy]

i don't fully agree with this list, but the point still remains the same. can you honestly say even if chara wins another 1 or 2 norris trophies, call him better then these 10 players (there are more that i believe should be on this list).

10- chris chelios
9- scott stevens
8- larry robinson
7- eddie shore
6- denis potvin
5- paul coffey
4- doug harvey
3- raymond bourque
2- bobby orr
1- nicklas lidstrom

The biggest problem here is with Orr behind Lidstrom.


To answer the question, Chara's not one of the all time best D men at this point.

 

[shazariahl]

First, give me a break with Lidstrom over Orr! I'll take Bourque, Harvey, Shore and Robinson over Lidstrom, as well.

I believe Chara could be #8 or #9 on that list with a couple of more awards and another Cup. Paul Coffey shouldn't be on that list, IMO.

First, you are absolutely correct that Lidstrom shouldn't be ahead of Orr, Bourque, Harvey, or Shore, and possibly Robinson. At this point I was in complete agreement.

But then you said Chara should be 8 or 9 on the list with a couple more awards and another Cup, but Coffey shouldn't be on the list. Coffey accomplished a lot more than Chara has, and even another couple awards and another cup won't put him ahead of Coffey. It'll maybe make him close, but Coffey was a lot more of a factor in his team's success than Chara was in this Bruin's run. That's not to say Chara was terrible or anything, but Coffey had some monster post seasons, and set multiple scoring records in the playoffs for defensemen. He also won more Norris trophies than Chara has, and cups aren't even close.

After all that, I'm still not sure Coffey makes the list (though he's probably there at 8-10 spot), but he's certainly ahead of Chara. Coffey also had much stronger competition, being up against many other D-men who are on the top 10 lists (Potvin, Bourque, Robinson though he was getting older, Chelios, Stevens) vs Chara who has really only had Lidstrom (which, granted, is pretty tough).

 

[Plante]

HFB shows its age.

 

[loadie]

Nearing top 10 territory.

45 is nearing 10 I guess.

 

[GM17*]

i don't fully agree with this list, but the point still remains the same. can you honestly say even if chara wins another 1 or 2 norris trophies, call him better then these 10 players (there are more that i believe should be on this list).

10- chris chelios
9- scott stevens
8- larry robinson
7- eddie shore
6- denis potvin
5- paul coffey
4- doug harvey
3- raymond bourque
2- bobby orr
1- nicklas lidstrom

Just laughed out loud and everyone's staring.

Aside from the Lidstrom lunacy everyone beat me to, Chara is not a top defenceman all time. I hate the "AINEC" thing, but it's not even close. One of the better european defencemen maybe, but there's still lots of greats before him there too.

 

[Barrie22]

for all the people who actually don't want to read entire posts, here is the original list with all the reasoning's behind his choices. and i will say it again, since nobody knows how to read it seems. i don't agree with the list, it just shows that to the person i quoted that there are easily 10 players who are much much much better then chara.

http://www.prohockey-fans.com/hockey-articles/best-nhl-defensemen_070708.html the original top 10 i copied ( i don't agree with the list, stevens and chelios wouldn't be in my top 10 either i don't think)

 

[ORRMAN]

First, you are absolutely correct that Lidstrom shouldn't be ahead of Orr, Bourque, Harvey, or Shore, and possibly Robinson. At this point I was in complete agreement.

But then you said Chara should be 8 or 9 on the list with a couple more awards and another Cup, but Coffey shouldn't be on the list. Coffey accomplished a lot more than Chara has, and even another couple awards and another cup won't put him ahead of Coffey. It'll maybe make him close, but Coffey was a lot more of a factor in his team's success than Chara was in this Bruin's run. That's not to say Chara was terrible or anything, but Coffey had some monster post seasons, and set multiple scoring records in the playoffs for defensemen. He also won more Norris trophies than Chara has, and cups aren't even close.

After all that, I'm still not sure Coffey makes the list (though he's probably there at 8-10 spot), but he's certainly ahead of Chara. Coffey also had much stronger competition, being up against many other D-men who are on the top 10 lists (Potvin, Bourque, Robinson though he was getting older, Chelios, Stevens) vs Chara who has really only had Lidstrom (which, granted, is pretty tough).

Very well written. I contend that Chara could reach #8 or #9; he's definitely not there yet, and to get there he will have to have an amazingly strong finish.

I have to admit that I think Coffey was too one-dimensional to be mentioned in the same breath as some of the others. That being said, Chara is decidedly more defensive than offensive (one-dimensional, you could argue), but has produced decent point totals along the way.

It's too early to have this discussion, but fun nevetheless.

 

[Jarick]

I think he cracks the top 10 if he wins another hardest slapshot contest.

 

[BigEyedPhish]

Orr is arguably the best player of all time, which automatically makes him the best player of all time..

He was +123 in one season (which IMO is the most unbreakable record in hockey)

Not to mention he won the scoring title as a defenseman, and is one of only 3 people (and the only defensemen) to get 100 assists in a season.

Lidstrom ahead of Orr is DUMB!

 

[um]

HFB shows its age.

show us the way wise old man

 

[Barrie22]

i don't think people really realize just how old chara is, by the time the next season ends he will be 35 years old, he doesn't have that many more years left in him (even if he is a gym freak).

and he really hasn't put up that great of numbers, 51 points in 77 games is his career high. other then that he is just a good 40+ point defensemen.

just in the past 6 years that has been beaten by the likes of

visnovsky 3
lidstrom 5
yandle
byfuglien
wisnieskie
enstrom
green 3
keith
doughty
boyle 4
pronger 3
markov 2
niedermayer 3
rafalski 3
streit 2
weber
souray 2
campbell 2
kronwall
gonchar 3
phaneuf
kaberle 3
jovonovski
whitney
mccabe 2
timonen
zubov 2
scheinder 2
boucher
blake

 

[Barrie22]

Orr is arguably the best player of all time, which automatically makes him the best player of all time..

He was +123 in one season (which IMO is the most unbreakable record in hockey)

Not to mention he won the scoring title as a defenseman, and is one of only 3 people (and the only defensemen) to get 100 assists in a season.

Lidstrom ahead of Orr is DUMB!

not the best record ever, considering that was back before they changed the plus minus rules, from a goal scored to a goal scored at even strength or on the pk.

when orr broke set that record he was getting pluses for being on the ice for a goal scored on the power play.

 

[JohnLennon]

I actually don't think Chara played too well in the playoffs.

 

[BeastoftheEast85]

i don't think people really realize just how old chara is, by the time the next season ends he will be 35 years old, he doesn't have that many more years left in him (even if he is a gym freak).

and he really hasn't put up that great of numbers, 51 points in 77 games is his career high. other then that he is just a good 40+ point defensemen.

just in the past 6 years that has been beaten by the likes of

visnovsky 3
lidstrom 5
yandle
byfuglien
wisnieskie
enstrom
green 3
keith
doughty
boyle 4
pronger 3
markov 2
niedermayer 3
rafalski 3
streit 2
weber
souray 2
campbell 2
kronwall
gonchar 3
phaneuf
kaberle 3
jovonovski
whitney
mccabe 2
timonen
zubov 2
scheinder 2
boucher
blake

Because points are all that matter...

Chara is the best in the league in terms of the defensive game, and while he may have just turned 34, but there is a reason he is locked up for most of the decade at 7 mill. He is built to play into his old age, and Boston wouldn't pay so much for so long if he wasn't.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

not the best record ever, considering that was back before they changed the plus minus rules, from a goal scored to a goal scored at even strength or on the pk.

when orr broke set that record he was getting pluses for being on the ice for a goal scored on the power play.

I've seen this myth countless times on HFBoards - I wonder how it got started. They used the same plus/minus rules in Orr's day that they do today.

Bobby Orr was +124. If powerplay goals were included, he would have been +173 (+124, plus 79 powerplay goals for, minus 30 powerplay goals against).

For the record, I think plus/minus is a meaningless stat, but if it's to be discussed, it should be discussed correctly.

 

[Wallachia]

between 47 and 54

 

[cska78]

he's definitely top 100 ever, if you consider defensive d-man may be top 30. His rich is insane - and he covers huge surface.

 

[IRON JELLY*]

Top 150, maybe.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Chara's not even in my top 60. He got outplayed by Seidenberg.

Very good d-man...but he's not "great"....not even close.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

He was borderline top 50 before the season began. With another Norris-worthy season and an excellent playoff performance under his belt, he moves up, probably to about 40th all-time. I think Niedermayer was about 33rd and Rob Blake about 44th on the list I made last year. At minimum, Chara has closed the gap with Blake

 

[birddog*]

Seriously? There is a thread like this or a Chara for HOF every other day. Honestly he's doesn't rank anywhere near the top and shouldn't even be mentioned there. Orr, Bourque, Lidstrom, Pronger, Coffey, Robinson, Potvin, Harvey, Neidermayer, Stevens, Leetch etc. were all head and shoulders above.

Tim Thomas and his .940 save percentage does not get Chara on the list of all-time greats or in the HOF. This cup was ALL Tim Thomas.

 

[KingGallagherXI]

I have to admit that I think Coffey was too one-dimensional to be mentioned in the same breath as some of the others.

There's nothing wrong with being "one-dimensional" when you're one of the best ever at it. Coffey has better offensive stats than Adam Oates (goals, assists, points, points per game, career and prime). He has 6 top 10 finishes just like Trottier, 3 top 5 finishes just like Clarke. Coffey wasn't at all bad defensively but he didn't need to be great at it because he always had the puck and was always generating goals.

The object of hockey is to score more goals than your opponent and having Coffey as a Dman definitely helps achieving that.

 

[ORRMAN]

Top 150, maybe.

Top 150, maybe

I don't take seriously posts by users who joined in June 2011: either masking or trolling.