Where do you rank the Hall of Fames of the 4 major sports?

[Davenport]

I had to look that up, and yeah, he got in back in 1973 even when he was eligible in 1972. I think there is some reasons behind it though. 1972 you had 5 guys inducted. It was in 1967 that they did the whole thing where it was only 4 players per year. The years prior they were doing some backlog and had more inductees per year.

In 1972, Beliveau, Howe, Geoffrion, Hap Holmes and then Hooley Smith. The last two were very old players who had long been dead. I am not sure why they got in other than backlog. But Howe and Beliveau both got that exception to the rule that Richard, Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux got by waving the three year waiting period. That's why they got in. Geoffrion was eligible in 1971 but didn't get in then. Strange. But either way, my guess is that there had to be some reason for Harvey getting in 4 years after and not three. Even waving the rule for him would have made sense. So my guess is that maybe it was something similar to Bossy. He didn't play after 1987 so you assume a player of his caliber is in by 1990 for sure, right? Nope. 1991. It isn't like he wasn't better than everyone else who got inducted in 1990, so why the wait? If I recall Bossy didn't officially announce his retirement until 1988 and that is what the HHOF at the time went by. It changed after that, as we know Pronger never really officially retired but still got in three years after his last game. So maybe Harvey didn't announce his retirement until 1969? I don't know.

One really bizarre one that makes no sense is how did Dale Hawerchuk wait a year extra? He was eligible in 2000, but Denis Savard and Joe Mullen got in despite there being more room for him. Then he gets inducted in 2001. I mean, what? Exactly what were the discussions surrounding this? Hawerchuk wasn't good enough in 2000 but okay by 2001? I never got that.



It is just getting ugly now. I mean, how anti-climatic is that going to be when Bonds gets in? Is he even going to want to attend the ceremony? Can you blame him if he doesn't? I can't. Look, I never cared for him either, and that includes factoring in the media bias that was almost certainly against him (call it the Tom Barrasso rule if you want as I don't always agree with how the media sometimes purposely wants to shape the perception of an athlete, right or wrong). But there shouldn't be a list of top 10 ball players that doesn't have his name on it. Maybe top 5, some say top 3, heck, a minority might say #1. I don't, but I definitely think he is top 10 and like it or not - and I don't - but he has two of the most prestigious records in baseball. But you can't just have this thing linger, it is bad for baseball when this happens. If Bonds isn't in, then neither should Bud Selig who oversaw this whole era.

It is a black mark that baseball hasn't fixed this yet. Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe (even those that believe he was involved) ought to be in as well in my mind. They were excellent ball players. In the 1919 World Series that the White Sox fixed it was Shoeless Joe who batted .375. Baseball has done a good job of admitting they were wrong by not integrating the game soon before 1947, why not admit they let things get out of hand in the steroid era and that the players who were playing then should still get in? It would be a good way of healing.

As for when the roids started. I am not sure exactly, but I know that according to Jose Canseco he was with Bonds around 1999 or 2000 and he was changing and Bonds saw how ripped he was in the upper body and asked him what he was doing. Canseco told him. Anyway, that's what he says in his book. I guess it makes sense since his numbers went up at that time.



He did, yes, that bothers me because his numbers - to his standards - were starting to go down and then all of the sudden they hit Ruthian levels that he had never hit before. To this day, if there is any consolation, Roger Maris still holds the American League record for home runs in a season with 61. But when you grow up and hear about that number and Aaron's 755 you figure something special ought to happen for you to see this broken and it is exciting see the players try year after year. But when McGwire, Sosa and Bonds all crushed it, then it wasn't as fun to see (I'll admit 1998 was a fun year to watch before things came out).

I still think he should get in the Hall and that baseball ought to take full ownership for turning a blind eye to the things that put a black mark on the lovely game.

Doug Harvey must have shared my interpretation of the one-year wait. He - basically - told the HoH to shove their induction. Loved it then - love it still.

 

[Big Phil]

Doug Harvey must have shared my interpretation of the one-year wait. He - basically - told the HoH to shove their induction. Loved it then - love it still.

I am reading this now. Wow, never knew this story.

 

[scott clam]

If they recorded the blocks then, Wilt would have had twice as many as he did.

Yes, he would probably have close to twice as many as Mutombo. I should probably make it clear that while Mutumbo is recognized as an all-time defensive great I don't actually consider him better at defense than Hakeem or Wilt or Bill.

 

[scott clam]

I think people need to get over the whole PED thing. The only thing wrong that Bonds, Clemens etc. did was get caught.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I think people need to get over the whole PED thing. The only thing wrong that Bonds, Clemens etc. did was get caught.

I don't buy for a minute that there's ever been a situation in pro sports where one guy has been on PEDs, and unfairly dominated a league full of clean competitors. PED abuse is a health issue for leagues and PAs to solve, and no young aspiring athlete should be put in a situation where they have to dope in order to keep up. But when it comes to competition, if everyone's on drugs, it is what it is.

With home run totals in baseball, however, part of the problem is that the fence doesn't get any farther out when everyone's on drugs, and I don't think there's a comparable factor in any other sport.

 

[The Panther]

Gretzky's story about being at the Hall of Fame's shooting-practice displace, some years ago, with his son, and the high school-aged guy working there corrected Gretzky's shooting style because he wasn't holding the stick right, is gold.

 

[The Panther]

The baseball thing is so messed now. I wouldn't know what to do about that.

I never thought Pete Rose did anything horribly bad. One-season ban, or something? Sure. Lifetime ban and denied Hall of Fame status...? Geez, that's tough. But meanwhile, we've got Hall of Fame athletes enshrined who beat their wives and abused players.

Then, about steroids and PED's, the problem becomes one of (a) proving that given player did it and knew that he was doing it (impossible to prove, basically), and (b) trying to retroactively determine who else did the PED's who's already in the Hall that we don't know about. Like, if Bonds get punished, they all have to. But then, of 1990s'-era power hitters, who's left?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

The baseball thing is so messed now. I wouldn't know what to do about that.

I never thought Pete Rose did anything horribly bad. One-season ban, or something? Sure. Lifetime ban and denied Hall of Fame status...? Geez, that's tough. But meanwhile, we've got Hall of Fame athletes enshrined who beat their wives and abused players.

Then, about steroids and PED's, the problem becomes one of (a) proving that given player did it and knew that he was doing it (impossible to prove, basically), and (b) trying to retroactively determine who else did the PED's who's already in the Hall that we don't know about. Like, if Bonds get punished, they all have to. But then, of 1990s'-era power hitters, who's left?

He bet on baseball while managing.

With steroids you punish the known users. You can't guess and yeah that means some dirty ones get through but that's life. They took the gamble to cheat the game, they can't cry foul after getting caught

 

[buffalowing88]

He bet on baseball while managing.

With steroids you punish the known users. You can't guess and yeah that means some dirty ones get through but that's life. They took the gamble to cheat the game, they can't cry foul after getting caught

It's shady stuff but for what it's worth, he apparently bet on his own team. It's not like there was ever the slightest bit of evidence that he was throwing games. I get it, though, it's really a bad look, but I personally think the man has done his penance at this point.

 

[kaiser matias]

I first went to the Hockey Hall of Fame during a brief period when I resided in central Toronto. I just went by myself and checked it out -- I thought it was okay. (This is late-90s.) A month later, I talked to one of my best friends about it, and he asked, "What part on the second floor did you like?" I was, like, "Second floor...?" Missed it completely.

Was back there in 2016, I think. Enjoyed it.

I've mentioned this before on here, but when I finally got to visit the Hall in 2017, I came out very disappointed in it. I really wanted a lot more history stuff, old memorabilia and the like, and just found it kind of cramped. The best parts by far was the IIHF section with the international jerseys, the trophy room (obviously), and seeing the old Cup rings they had. But I came out really wanting more.

I understand they have a lot of interactive exhibits for children and so on, but they should also consider the people like myself (and I'm sure others here) who want to see more stuff like the program from the opening night of Maple Leaf Gardens, or the Philadelphia Quakers jersey.

Will also note I have not visited the other three halls, and probably won't; not that big of a fan of the other sports.