Where did this Athanasiou go?

Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by Redder Winger, Mar 17, 2018.

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  1. Perfect Human

    Perfect Human Registered User

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    He doesn't sound like he wants to be a red wing at all. If you listen to other young players talk about their team, especially wings, they say "this organization" "the red wings" AA just says whatever team, whatever players I am with, etc etc, general statements.

    I get it though, why does he want to be on a team that he is not wanted on (from management).

    EDIT: Thanks for posting the link to this interview
     
  2. TCNorthstars

    TCNorthstars Registered User

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    Are you saying when AA's ice time was lower and he wasn't scoring he was still skating his ass off working hard all the time?
     
  3. Shaman464

    Shaman464 #FireHolland

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    Again you cherry pick a random number "18" because it gives you the stats you want. Top 6 minutes were 16 minutes or more a night and that starts to include games where he was disengaged and lowers is ppg substantially. And if he is so good, why is it he could replicate that for the other 9 games where he got over 16 minutes? or the games where he was getting 15? or 14? Why is it he has to be given something in order to decide to be engaged? That's the issue in a nutshell, if AA isn't getting what he wants, top line minutes, he's going to coast, and ***** and moan about how he's not being given a chance. And yet, other players were able to score just fine even without his talent from middle 6 on this team.
     
  4. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    It's funny, because that's the number AA used in the interview.

    I'll let you choose the number.
    What's a good number for a top 6 forward?
    How about 17 minutes?
    Wow. Add 4 more games.
    So now you're at 18 games. 10-8-18.
    Point per game.
    The Red Wings went 2-2 in those 4 games,
    at 17 minutes:
    AA is a point-per-game guy.
    The Red Wings win more than they lose.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
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  5. Shaman464

    Shaman464 #FireHolland

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    For the Red Wings it was 16 minutes to be top 6 and I already gave you the stats. 23 games 18 points. Not ppg and many of them he was a net negative. But keep picking random numbers that have no bearing on anything to be able to cherry pick your stats. And your argument is **** anyway because its treating all ice time the same. He averaged 23 seconds of PK time, but players ahead of him in ATOI like Nielsen, Helm and Abdelkader were getting 2 minutes of PK a game. He was 6th in ES time on the team (removing Tatar). But lets pretend that ATOI is all that matters.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  6. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    I don't know what you're watching - but the the top two lines were this
    Zetterberg line
    Larkin line.

    Athanasiou played 70 minutes with Z.
    Athanasiou played 397 with Larkin.

    Athanasiou played 398 without either of those guys.

    Zetterberg, meanwhile, played 1155 minutes without Larkin or AA.
    Larkin played 741 minutes without Zetterberg/AA

    It's a stretch to say AA played top 6, when he clearly spent nearly half the year not playing with guys in the top 6.

    Zetterberg, Larkin, Nyquist and Mantha played top six minutes. Tatar was top 6 when he was here.

    After that it was a rotation of AA/Abdelkader/Helm and Frk in the top 6.

    I'd argue that AA, based on what he did when he played high minutes, would have been more effective than Nyquist and Tatar and probably just as effective, or more so, than Mantha.

    Here are your top 5 on 5 producers
    Larkin 1183 minutes 13-33-46
    Zetterberg 1269 minutes 10-26-36
    Mantha 1119 minutes 15-21-36
    Nyquist 1171 minutes 18-14-32
    Athanasiou 869 minutes 13-14-27
    Helm 951 minutes 9-15-24
    Abdelkader 905 minutes 8-16-25
    Bertuzzi 590 minutes 6-15-21
    Nielsen 948 minutes 8-10-16
    Frk 526 minutes 6-9-15
    Tatar 828 minutes 6-8-14
    Glendening 684 minutes 6-7-13
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
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  7. Shaman464

    Shaman464 #FireHolland

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    And you have nothing to back that up with. His points per 60 dropped, his goals per 60 dropped, his Corsi was terrible, his Fenwick was terrible. So basically he averaged 2 more minutes a game this season and is points per game stayed the same. The only thing you have to back up your claim he would do better is pointing to a fraction of his game where he was engaged and was given more ice time for it. You can literally draw no conclusions from that. And given the fact the other 80% of his games this season only account for 48% and nearly half of his time with Z and Larkin was in that 80% of games where he was ****, is telling.
     
  8. chances14

    chances14 Registered User

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  9. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    Yep. He pulls up short of saying he personally wants to be here.

    With Blashill back, there's no way he wants to be here.
     
  10. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    No offense, but Mantha has no reason to be upset.
    No matter how awful he played, he got icetime.
     
  11. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    How clear do I need to make it.

    AA started the season playing 11-17 minutes agame.
    Through 7 games he had 1-1-2 at 14:27 a game.

    Then boom. After a four-game scoreless streak, he's suddenly promoted to 20-minutes a night alongside Larkin.
    Over the next 3 games goes 3-2-5 averaging 20:01.
    Then Blash starts scaling him back.

    Over the next 16 games, he averages 13:45. He goes 1-4-5 -12. A truly ugly stretch.
    Over the last two games of the stretch, he plays 8:36 and 12:34.
    Then Mantha gets hurt.
    Athanasiou is put back on Larkin's wing.

    Over the next 8 games, AA goes 5-4-9, averaging 20:29.

    Mantha comes back and eventually supplants AA.

    It isn't like AA played well on Line 3 or 4 and earned a callup.
    He played there and he played well. Period.
    Playing with speed and skill worked for him.
    And it made Detroit better.
    When Detroit went 1-3 at the end of those 4 games, AA was demoted and never saw that ice time again.


    The idea that Blashill played AA when AA worked hard is unsupported.

    AA is a kid coming of a contract dispute. He took the one year contract to prove himself.

    When he played top 6, he produced.
    When he didn't, he didn't.

    It's on AA for not producing more when he played in the 13-16 minute range.
    But whatever,

    He got screwed by a coach with an axe to grind.
    With Blashill back, you have to trade AA now.

    It used to piss me off when Babcock chased away Red Wings talent. But at least Babcock won.

    Blashill loses and chases away talent.
     
  12. Hen Kolland

    Hen Kolland Registered User

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    Did you read that article? It sounds like Mantha at least has the self-awareness to realize that there was a reason he was getting called out and benched; he sought explanations and to improve. He wants to be aware of what his coach is expecting of him and how he can be better. Craig Custance had a piece with The Athletic early this week that had a bit on Athanasiou and his thoughts on his season, in a nutshell he said something along the lines of "considering the opportunity I was given, I did a good job." He concedes that everyone has room to improve, but why the hell would a coach give the benefit of the doubt to him with that attitude? He implied that his usage is the reason his performance wasn't better. He was happy with his season despite being less effective but playing more? You know how to burn bridges with your coaches and the veteran teammates? Don't be accountable.

    Didn't we see this kind of stuff pop up with Zetterberg calling out people for poke and hope, too? If I'm not mistaken, Mantha took it to heart and agreed that he needed to improve and start making the right plays and doing the right things. Meanwhile AA diverted any attention directly on him and talked about how the team as a whole needed to improve.

    If he doesn't want to stay, I'm sure it's because he feels slighted, but it's sounding more and more like his time in juniors.
     
  13. Perfect Human

    Perfect Human Registered User

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    If you listen to his end of season interview (I am sure you have), Jeff Riger (I think) asked him point blank if he wants to be a Wing next season, and he sidestepped the question (about 3:50 into the interview). He basically said that he is ready to be a big piece now and any organization (the Wings included) that lets him be a big player he would be happy to play for.
     
  14. 21 Savage

    21 Savage Registered User

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    Have the feeling we’re going to trade him and our 2 early seconds to get a pick in the teens.

    Dude clearly has no interest in playing for Blashill. Shame, even if he’s not as good as he thinks he is dude was by far the most entertaining players post Datsyuk
     
  15. CaptainCrosscheck

    CaptainCrosscheck Registered User

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    I think the fault lies on both Blash and AA.

    Blash has made some questionable personnel decisions over the years no doubt, but AA doesn't help himself either. Holds out demanding more than he was arguably worth threatens to jump ship to the KHL and then puts up a season where his advanced stats are worse than the previous year.
     
  16. Shaman464

    Shaman464 #FireHolland

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    Again, taking convenient sample sizes to prove your point only shows that you have an agenda and not a point. I gave you the stats showing a third of his season, that conformed with what can be shown to correspond with top 6 minutes and that he was lackluster at best. But keep taking small segments and trying to extrapolate out from it. Every post you sound more and more like Eva Unit Zero who would do this exact same thing with Jiri Hudler, he would take some sample of 3 to 10 games than make huge statements about why Hudler (and he really said this) would be a top line center of at least half of the NHL teams at the time. Or why he would be a lock for 30+60 if he played with Datsyuk all season. You're doing the same exact thing with AA. You're using stats, in isolation of how he was playing, and making sweeping, grand, and deluded pronouncements. AA put himself in the contract dispute, he played himself into the bottom lines, and he is the reason why he had a relatively bad season. And if you were honest when you watched him you'd see it wasn't him working hard and not scoring because of bad linemates, you would have seen what the rest of us saw; him lazily skating circles for 14 minutes a game, and being engaged for 1-2 minutes. So say what you will, I'd rather have Little Bert, who pretty easily outscored AA when he got top 6 minutes, out there with Z or Larkin, because he will be a presence even when he's not scoring, than I would AA out there being detached and aloof for 16-18 minutes a game, but deciding to show up for a play or two that potentially are highlight reel.
     
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  17. The Zetterberg Era

    The Zetterberg Era RIP Fugu

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    Hit the bricks kid. I also like that he basically wants to play hard in the playoffs in one of his comments. Play hard every night and do it the right way. Glad you think you play well in big games which you haven't played many of, start trying to play consistently well every night AA.

    I know he is an incredible talent but it isn't happening here, I doubt it happens anywhere. He might have a big year as a motivated guy jilted by a trade but I don't see a consistent makeup to be the kind of front line player people dream of. The talent is there to be sure.

    We should trade him this off-season. He is close with Larkin and Mantha, I don't want him poisoning their development. Package him with our lower first or one of our early seconds and move up. That or swap him for a younger D-man that has top 4 qualities.
     
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  18. The Zetterberg Era

    The Zetterberg Era RIP Fugu

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    That is honestly what you took out of that article???

    That was pretty informative, I guess to each their own.
     
  19. TheRatPoisoner

    TheRatPoisoner Registered User

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    Does not sound like a happy camper.
     
  20. Shaman464

    Shaman464 #FireHolland

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    Well no organization is going to give him big ice time unless he decides to do a 180 and play engaged hockey most of the time. So, he can want to be a big part of an organization, but no matter where he goes he's likely going to play himself into the bottom 6.
     
  21. TCNorthstars

    TCNorthstars Registered User

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    That is how I see it playing out as well. Coaches want their players to play within the system and put in effort all the time. AA has shown he does neither of these. It would be same **** different coach.
     
  22. TheRatPoisoner

    TheRatPoisoner Registered User

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    Whatever the case, it'd be my guess that complaining about his role publicly like this probably isn't the best way to go about trying to get his ice time increased.
     
  23. Shaman464

    Shaman464 #FireHolland

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    Seems like history repeating itself. He did the same thing in the OHL and get what he wanted.
     
  24. Fire Ken Holland

    Fire Ken Holland into outer space

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    Sounds like both sides need to move on.
     
  25. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    That is a response to his comment about the article, not the actual article.
     

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