Where did this Athanasiou go?

[Shaman464]

The really surprising part of all this is that his O-zone starts have skyrocketed since the beginning of 2018 and yet his offense hasn't picked up at all. If you asked me in December what I would think if his O-zone starts jumped from 48% to 53% in March, I would have said that he would likely be at or near 40 points on pace for near 50.

 

[theYman]

Much like many of the prospects Red Wings fans hype, he isn't as good as they want him or think him to be. People just see him skate fast and automatically think elite. Don't see him ever being more than a 40-50 point player, which isn't a bad thing considering he was taken 110th.

Yeah exactly. He's just more flashy doing it.

 

[Claypool]

The really surprising part of all this is that his O-zone starts have skyrocketed since the beginning of 2018 and yet his offense hasn't picked up at all. If you asked me in December what I would think if his O-zone starts jumped from 48% to 53% in March, I would have said that he would likely be at or near 40 points on pace for near 50.

Because he can only score goals on breakaways or from the faceoff circle.

 

[Reddwit]

Some of y'all are so determinist. A hockey player is just a human being who plays hockey at the end of the day, and like all human beings, he's gonna be a bit unpredictable at his age. Maybe he's just a 40-50 point guy year after year. Maybe he's not even that some years mixed in with some 80 point blow outs other years. Maybe he can't handle the pressure. Maybe he thinks hes too good. Maybe he's just been unlucky in getting a handful of hockey minds around him who he is incompatible with. Maybe he matures. Maybe he grows out of it. Whatever. At the end of the day, all I know is playing for an organization that makes no bones about calling out their youngsters while idolizing underperforming veterans in the midst of a handful of disgraceful years by their standards probably isn't the best time to decide who a guy is or isn't for the rest of his career.

Same goes for Mantha. For Larkin. For Svechnikov. Maybe we can just slow our roll a bit until the organization gets its shit together. Can't imagine being a part of that workplace right now.

 

[Henkka]

He's 23.
They're wasting his athletic prime.

Nope. His athletic prime is further than others, because of his certain injuries.

 

[Henkka]

The really surprising part of all this is that his O-zone starts have skyrocketed since the beginning of 2018 and yet his offense hasn't picked up at all. If you asked me in December what I would think if his O-zone starts jumped from 48% to 53% in March, I would have said that he would likely be at or near 40 points on pace for near 50.

Maybe he should be used on defensive zone starts and transition the game by skating like Helm on his glory days.

 

[obey86]

The really surprising part of all this is that his O-zone starts have skyrocketed since the beginning of 2018 and yet his offense hasn't picked up at all. If you asked me in December what I would think if his O-zone starts jumped from 48% to 53% in March, I would have said that he would likely be at or near 40 points on pace for near 50.

A 5% change in zone starts is basically nothing. There are about 60 face-offs per game meaning that an individual forward is on the ice for an average of 15 face-offs in a single game. A 5% increase in Ozone starts means that Athanasiou would be getting like 1 more offensive zone start per game than he was getting before, which isn't a negligible difference in the least. Most line changes happen on the fly, which is not included in ozone start %.

Ice time and quality of linemates are much more correlated with offensive production than zone starts.

 

[HIFE]

He's got to solidify his game. Bertuzzi in far less time has proven to be a more simple yet smarter player. Bert looks like an Nhl'er... AA is a space cadet. Athanasiou needs to slow down and pay better attention to the details, like getting pucks deep and winning battles on the forecheck. Completely eliminate the childish turnovers.

The line with Abdelkader and Nielsen, something there was very wrong, terrible chemistry. I agree he played best with Larkin, but who wouldn't? He's not strong enough as a top 6 player yet though. Maybe on the Wings he is? He should stay on a 3rd line but he need the right teammates to succeed. AA with Nielsen and Rasmussen (instead of Abdelkader) is a positive idea. AA could be a top 6 but it may take more time. He has the tools just needs to start putting it together.

 

[Redder Winger]

Bert didn't look good until he spent four weeks on Line 1.
Give AA 4 weeks on line 1.

 

[BinCookin]

Z can make anyone look good.

He did it with Larkin year 1
He did it with Mantha year 1
He is doing it with Bertuzzi now.

 

[Redder Winger]

Some good insights here, particularly around 15 minutes.

AA tries not to take Regner's bait, but he slips a few times.

"I don't think I've really had the chance to be the the type of player I know I can really be." -- 38 minutes or so

On icetime: Coach is just trying to win games.

Doesn't sound like he really believes Detroit is the place where that happens. - 39:50

Playing with Larkin is a lot of fun. When you play with Larkin, you play a lot, too. So I like that for sure. - 40:30

We're losing valuable time, not developing chemistry between players.

Around 42, AA laughs about the criticism he and Mantha get.

Talking about goals/numbers; I haven't got the chance to see what I can really do as a player. I still feel like the sky is the limit for me. It'll unfold sooner or later and everyone will see what type of player I'll be. 47:00

48 minutes: Asked about not buying into the process reputation.

 

[SoupGuru]

Poor AA. So mistreated by the Red Wings. Maybe he can find another team that will play him 18 minutes a night while he phones in game after game.

 

[TheMule93]

Poor AA. So mistreated by the Red Wings. Maybe he can find another team that will play him 18 minutes a night while he phones in game after game.

while i agree he phoned it in for most of the season, why was mantha always stapled to the top 6 despite phoning it in too?

 

[kliq]

while i agree he phoned it in for most of the season, why was mantha always stapled to the top 6 despite phoning it in too?

At the risk of triggering a certain poster, better attitude? Its anyone's guess.

 

[Redder Winger]

Poor AA. So mistreated by the Red Wings. Maybe he can find another team that will play him 18 minutes a night while he phones in game after game.

14 games with 18 minutes a night.
9 goals 8 assists 17.

Red Wings were 8-4-2 in those games.

Looks like he mailed it in.

 

[kliq]

14 games with 18 minutes a night.
9 goals 8 assists 17.

Red Wings were 8-4-2 in those games.

Looks like he mailed it in.

It's like the chicken and the egg argument though.
Did AA produce because he was given more minutes?
Or, in games he was producing, did they give him more minutes?

It would make sense that when a guy is playing good, the coach gives him more minutes. I'm not going to lie, I have zero clue as when I watch a game i am not watching for this.

 

[Redder Winger]

At the risk of triggering a certain poster, better attitude? Its anyone's guess.

Because the media got quotes from AA's camp about Blashill.

Blashill decided to f*** him over.

AA, in return, simply stopped giving a f*** - like a lot of people do when they can't do anything to get in their boss's good book.

Blashill has his pets.
He'd rather play Helm in the top 6.

Darren Helm when playing 18 minutes.
9 games 0-2-2
Team record 3-2-4

Abdelkader when playing 18 minutes.
20 games 6-4-10
Team record 6-12-2

Nielsen when playing 18 minutes
6 games 2-1-3
Team record 0-2-4

Mantha 18 minutes
29 games 12-10-22
Team record 7-15-7

Bertuzzi 18 minutes
6 games 1-3-4
Team record 0-6-0
(Weird thing - Red Wings lost every single one of Bertuzzi's top 13 TOI games.)

Athanasiou 18 minutes
14 games 9-8-7
Team record 8-4-2

Go back and look at this season. The best stretches of the year came with AA playing big minutes alongside Larkin.

Coach's petty bullshit got in the way of his own goal - yet another reason whhy Blashill is a clown.

 

[kliq]

Because the media got quotes from AA's camp about Blashill.

Blashill decided to **** him over.

AA, in return, simply stopped giving a **** - like a lot of people do when they can't do anything to get in their boss's good book.

Blashill has his pets.
He'd rather play Helm in the top 6.

Darren Helm when playing 18 minutes.
9 games 0-2-2
Team record 3-2-4

Abdelkader when playing 18 minutes.
20 games 6-4-10
Team record 6-12-2

Nielsen when playing 18 minutes
6 games 2-1-3
Team record 0-2-4

Mantha 18 minutes
29 games 12-10-22
Team record 7-15-7

Bertuzzi 18 minutes
6 games 1-3-4
Team record 0-6-0
(Weird thing - Red Wings lost every single one of Bertuzzi's top 13 TOI games.)

Athanasiou 18 minutes
14 games 9-8-7
Team record 8-4-2

Go back and look at this season. The best stretches of the year came with AA playing big minutes alongside Larkin.

Coach's petty bull**** got in the way of his own goal - yet another reason whhy Blashill is a clown.

You're not going to get an argument from me when it comes to Blashill abilities as a coach.

But again, that's my point. If the team played well when AA played a lot, is it because they played him a lot and won because of it, or is it because when he actually produced, he got more minutes and they won.

I have to ask, do you know AA personally? You see to really get upset when his name is brought up.

 

[Redder Winger]

It's like the chicken and the egg argument though.
Did AA produce because he was given more minutes?
Or, in games he was producing, did they give him more minutes?

It would make sense that when a guy is playing good, the coach gives him more minutes. I'm not going to lie, I have zero clue as when I watch a game i am not watching for this.

Go back through the game log.
Andreas Athanasiou 2017-18 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

His promotions were random.
I speculate the first one was at the request of Holland. The Ducks were trading Vatanen.
AA suddenly starts playing 20 minutes a night with Larkin.
3 games 3-2-5 and then he's demoted again.

Again, after Christmas, he's promoted. Only because Mantha got hurt. Blashill planned to move Bert to Z's line and Mantha to Larkin's line, but Mantha got hurt.
Dec. 29-Jan. 16: 8 games 5-4-9. Team goes 5-3.
Mantha returns and plays L4 for a few games before he takes over with Larkin and AA starts bouncing between L3 and L4.

There's not much chicken and egg.
When AA has been given opportunity, he's played well - most of the time.

The major difference in AA's game - and this is on AA -- is that he's not doing a lot with line 3 icetime with Nielsen.

His points/60 is still OK. But it's definitely way down since Mid January.

 

[Redder Winger]

You're not going to get an argument from me when it comes to Blashill abilities as a coach.

But again, that's my point. If the team played well when AA played a lot, is it because they played him a lot and won because of it, or is it because when he actually produced, he got more minutes and they won.

I have to ask, do you know AA personally? You see to really get upset when his name is brought up.

I just like AA as a hockey player and think he can help turn this franchise around if developed properly.

AA basically said in that interview many of the things I've been saying all year.
He's not being properly used. He's not being given the chance to show how good he can be.

I think we've seen AA at his best and seen how dynamic this teams when you've got him going and Larkin going.

And why in the f*** this coach doesn't like the looks of that is beyond me.

Instead we get to watch sickly, anemic hockey all year.

 

[TatarTangle]

Broken clock.

If AA gave consistent effort, there are plenty of times throughout the season he visably gave up, he would get more IT. He also wouldn't go weeks without a single point.

He's clearly more talented than Helm, Abdelkader, Bertuzzi, etc, but the difference is they skate hard every shift and is apparent that's what Blashill wants to see.

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. Both Mantha and AA have displayed enough times they don't want to put in the effort, at least not in Detroit.

AA just needs to go to a team where they give him no defensive responsibilty / can be sheltered by better players because his game is not suited for two-way play.

 

[Dotter]

AA is a fun hockey player to watch. But he hasn't earned more ice time. Sure he can score goals, but when he is away from the puck, his game lacks.

No coach in the NHL would ever give him the ice time he's crying about not getting until he improves his overall game. Scotty Bowman would rip this young man apart.

 

[SCD]

Holland received good return for Tatar and Smith. It is time to move AA and Mantha while value is high. I would also consider moving Lil Bert, even though I like his style of play. I just don't think he is durable enough to last through a rebuild.

 

[Goalie guy]

Holland received good return for Tatar and Smith. It is time to move AA and Mantha while value is high. I would also consider moving Lil Bert, even though I like his style of play. I just don't think he is durable enough to last through a rebuild.

Mantha just played his first full season all be it miss used on the pp and had 48 points. Little Bert is going to be a good player 48 gp 24 points. AA needs to get his head on right. I don't think you get ride of good young players on a rebuilding team. Kronwall, Big E, and DD should be long gone first.

 

[Redder Winger]

Broken clock.

If AA gave consistent effort, there are plenty of times throughout the season he visably gave up, he would get more IT. He also wouldn't go weeks without a single point.

He's clearly more talented than Helm, Abdelkader, Bertuzzi, etc, but the difference is they skate hard every shift and is apparent that's what Blashill wants to see.

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. Both Mantha and AA have displayed enough times they don't want to put in the effort, at least not in Detroit.

AA just needs to go to a team where they give him no defensive responsibilty / can be sheltered by better players because his game is not suited for two-way play.

Bullshit post.

You refuse to address facts. You just give us bullshit.