Where are the difference makers?

A1Portable

Registered User
Nov 5, 2005
375
0
Holland gives the impression that this offseason he's just going to nibble around the edges and make a tweak or two, and the Red Wings will be ready to compete for the Stanley Cup next season.

The current team could not get past the 2nd round of the playoffs, and next season's team is unlikely to fare better unless the Wings increase the level of their talent.

The increased talent must come from outside the organization becaue Datsyuk and Zetterburg are both in their mid 30's, and they will be too old to win a championship by the time the Wings' young players mature.

Moreover, during the past decade, what difference makers have the Wings produced through their system?

I respectfully submit that they have produced just two: Howard and Franzen (thanks to ricky0034 for pointing out this omission from the original post).

Abdelkader = no; solid checking line player;
Emmerton = no; third-fourth liner;
Helm = no; solid checker;
Filppula = no; solid 2nd-3rd liner;
Ericsson = no; 3rd liner playing as 1st liner;
Kindl = no; underachiever;
Quincy = no; 3rd line defenseman;
Smith = no; not yet, if ever.

The question is: where are the difference makers?

If the Wings are going to add the difference makers necesary for this Wings team to compete for the championship next season, the Wings are going to have to add those difference makers from outside the Wings organization.
 
Last edited:

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,077
12,076
Tampere, Finland
The question is: where are the difference makers?

The growth will come from inside. It's hard to believe in it, but that's what happens in great coached groups. The whole defence is young and developing. Smith, Kindl, DeKeyser, Ericsson, Quincey. And that Calder Cup 1st line Nyquist, Andersson, Tatar + Brunner with more experience in future seasons will deepen the offensive corps.

Also one TOP6 UFA outsider is on the wishlist.

These small factors together will make big things.
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
The only difference makers on this team are Datsyuk, Z and Howard. That's it. Maybe a HEALTHY Helm

Maybe Nyquist, Tataro, Jurco and Jarnkrok become difference makers in 3 or 4 years.
 

7r4n

Catsyuk has Dangles
Apr 19, 2012
160
0
I'm actually thinking that the young guys will mature in the next few years. Smith has already had a full regular season under his belt, so does Kindl.

We'll probably bring up Tatar and Nyquist next year as regulars. Tatar and Nyquist IMO will be "difference makers" Nyquist has already shown us what he can do with the puck and Tatar is a proven goal scorer in the AHL. He also showed us what he could do when we brought him up for a stint.

Dekeyser is showing promise as well, hopefully he can solidify himself as our #2 defenseman.

I think we're coming along nicely with our prospects and we got a ton more coming up as well that can be difference makers. Obviously they are still raw but some of them are bound to be players that we can build around. Thinking Nyquist, Tatar or Jarnkrok.
 

7r4n

Catsyuk has Dangles
Apr 19, 2012
160
0
If you're thinking about difference makers in the next season coming up, then yeah, you're right. We probably won't have enough skill from our young guys to be deadly but give it a couple years and I'm sure we'll do alright.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,956
11,575
Ft. Myers, FL
Ericsson isn't a third liner playing a first pairing role, show the guy some respect. He is even basically a lock to make the Swedish Olympic team at this point, it is time we appreciate what he is becoming, plus he has been better than his band of haters have said for two plus seasons now.
 
Jul 30, 2005
17,659
4,588
I mean, what is location, really
Holland gives the impression that this offseason he's just going to nibble around the edges and make a tweak or two, and the Red Wings will be ready to compete for the Stanley Cup next season.
I have no idea what has made you think that the Wings are going to compete for the cup next year. This is a rebuilding team that won't really be ready for a few years.

Holland's words:

“We’re trying to compete, we’re trying to rebuild, reload,'' Holland said. “You look at the moment in time. I can’t look at the moment in time. I have to look at what we’ve got and where I think we can go over the next few years, the age of the roster, who’s going to be here for a while.''

The only cup we have a shot at next year is the Calder cup.
 

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
14,862
6,938
Ericsson isn't a third liner playing a first pairing role, show the guy some respect. He is even basically a lock to make the Swedish Olympic team at this point, it is time we appreciate what he is becoming, plus he has been better than his band of haters have said for two plus seasons now.

this

also I notice the op conveniently left Franzen out of the post entirely
 

SportsballChic

Registered User
Jun 18, 2013
750
0
Toronto
If you're thinking about difference makers in the next season coming up, then yeah, you're right. We probably won't have enough skill from our young guys to be deadly but give it a couple years and I'm sure we'll do alright.

Agree. I recently wrote a series of articles about the Wings' roster and part of that involved looking at the prospects in the system, what people were saying about them and watching a TON of video clips. Honestly I dunno if people are being very fair at all:

Jarnkrok and Jurco have *elite* game changing talent. Nyquist is already a capable 2nd line scoring Winger who could definitely grow into a consistent 30 goal man.

Tatar isn't going to be much worse, although I dunno how long we can keep him. He's made it clear he wants top 6 minutes very soon or he's gone.

We have a guy in Finland who's being compared to Brett Hull (Pulkkinen). We have a Helm/Draper clone in Ferraro, a Shanny style power forward prospect (Sheahan) who's ALREADY playing a sick 2 way game.

Plus people writing off Abdelkader as being "unskilled" are kinda crazy. It takes *forever* for power forwards to develop at the NHL level. 10 goals in 48 games plus a willingness to take abuse in front of the net at his age is a VERY good sign.

Finally, as much as I hate his up and down play; can we stop pretending 30 goals a season from Franzen = no impact? Pav and Hank aren't working alone folks.

Oh, and we have that Jimmy Howard guy. I hear he's been known to "make a difference" or two lately.

This isn't Tampa Bay.
 

SportsballChic

Registered User
Jun 18, 2013
750
0
Toronto
I don't know why this comparison is still floating around. Pulkkinen doesn't even really like to use that big slapper. He's more of a passer.

In part it's the Youtube videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNg43axDba0). That having been said, I didn't say it. Hakan Andersson did and I sorta trust that guy. Also, his stats don't bear out the idea that he's suddenly stopped scoring goals: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=118379

Every piece of film I saw on him said he's a gifted scorer, could already play in the NHL as a powerplay specialist but desperately needs to improve his skating and defense. Hull had some of the same problems as a youth so the compliment might have also been a little backhanded on Andersson's part.

He's still a legit prospect with "difference making" offensive potential.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,956
11,575
Ft. Myers, FL
In part it's the Youtube videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNg43axDba0). That having been said, I didn't say it. Hakan Andersson did and I sorta trust that guy. Also, his stats don't bear out the idea that he's suddenly stopped scoring goals: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=118379

Every piece of film I saw on him said he's a gifted scorer, could already play in the NHL as a powerplay specialist but desperately needs to improve his skating and defense. Hull had some of the same problems as a youth so the compliment might have also been a little backhanded on Andersson's part.

He's still a legit prospect with "difference making" offensive potential.

Guru is right, he has a gifted shot, but if you have seen him play and I have tuned in to watch him online, he is more a playmaker than sniper. He has a heavy shot, but his release also isn't in Hull's zip-code. Frk is better in both these aspects. Pulkkinen has made great strides with his three zone play and speed though, two of his biggest concerns. But this sniper that is built up is unlikely to ever materialize, he should be a PP weapon though at the NHL where I think they will force him into a shooting role because of how heavy his shot is. But he is not always looking for his shot and a lot of times he is delayed in making that decision and caught in the wind up.
 

SportsballChic

Registered User
Jun 18, 2013
750
0
Toronto
Guru is right, he has a gifted shot, but if you have seen him play and I have tuned in to watch him online, he is more a playmaker than sniper. He has a heavy shot, but his release also isn't in Hull's zip-code. Frk is better in both these aspects. Pulkkinen has made great strides with his three zone play and speed though, two of his biggest concerns. But this sniper that is built up is unlikely to ever materialize, he should be a PP weapon though at the NHL where I think they will force him into a shooting role because of how heavy his shot is. But he is not always looking for his shot and a lot of times he is delayed in making that decision and caught in the wind up.

I did watch some film on him (I spent about 3 days watching film on ALL of them actually), although as I'm sure you're aware a highlight clip can be made to look however you want it to look. I've tried to keep up with the Griffins broadcasts but the AHL stream is pretty maddening and I often have difficulties making it through the entire game.

I'll take your word for it? :) The Jurco avatar tells me you've been watching more Griffins games than I have :) Frankly, I could care less if he gets the goal or the assist so long as the puck ends up in the net. Mostly I just disagree with the idea that the Wings are somehow an average team with little talent; both now and in the future.

Edit: I have definitely seen him hover his stick in the air forever over a puck, even in clips from Finnish play; so that's an issue I have no problem believing re: the release time.
 
Last edited:
Jul 30, 2005
17,659
4,588
I mean, what is location, really
In part it's the Youtube videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNg43axDba0). That having been said, I didn't say it. Hakan Andersson did and I sorta trust that guy. Also, his stats don't bear out the idea that he's suddenly stopped scoring goals: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=118379

Every piece of film I saw on him said he's a gifted scorer, could already play in the NHL as a powerplay specialist but desperately needs to improve his skating and defense. Hull had some of the same problems as a youth so the compliment might have also been a little backhanded on Andersson's part.

He's still a legit prospect with "difference making" offensive potential.
Yeah, I didn't mean to say that he isn't a good prospect. But I think the cannon shot hasn't been the offensive weapon for him like everyone hoped, and perhaps to his credit he hasn't tried to force anything. He's adapting quite nicely.
 

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
14,862
6,938
He hasn't been a difference maker in a while.

he's paced 59 points or more over 82 games in the regular season for 5 years in a row now

he's had a few Playoff runs of late that have left something to be desired but even combined that's only a 27 game sample size and he was battling an injury that severely hampered his play for a few of those games to boot

edit:

this season he had the same amount of points as the likes of Marleau,Hossa,Pavelski,Kovalchuk etc and more than the likes of Bobby Ryan,Loui Eriksson,Marian Gaborik etc

if you go even 1-2 above Franzen you find the likes of Benn,Bergeron,Krejci,Iginla etc

none of those players played significantly less games than Franzen and most of them in fact played more games

how the hell is that not a difference maker?
 
Last edited:

UncleSam19

Registered User
Jun 16, 2013
38
0
I think thats kinda harsh on some of the players.
abby did exactly what he was supposed to do, especially in the playoffs he hit everything that moved and got the puck to pav. maybe not a huge difference maker but he filled in nicely.
Helm is absolutely a difference maker, not sure how you even say hes not, unless you're only talking about this year then i guess you have a case.
filp had a rough year this year but in the last couple years was a good second liner put up solid numbers and you need that secondary scoring so i would say hes a difference maker also
ericsson and kindl were hands down our best 2 dmen this year with kronwall being a distant 3rd. love the points kronner puts up be he gets about a million more chances than our other Dmen, his shot is a shinpad magnet, and until the end of the year was an absolute mess in our own end.
smith had a rough season, but you can see the potential, when he figures it out hell be a difference maker, hopefully thats soon.

What bugs me the most about posts like these is that not making it past the second round of the playoffs really wasn't that bad of a thing. We lost in game 7 OT to a team that was a cup favorite like 2 weeks into the season. The haws were far and away the best team in the league this year and we went all the way vs them, **** shoulda been able to put them away. And i loved the wings v the kings matchup. the way we were playing coulda smoked them like the hawks did. After losing Rafalski last year then Lids and Stuart this year and getting further this year than the last 2 years is kind of impressive and only shows that were not far off from winning it all.

Guys like gus and tatar are going to be full time and well be difference makers next year. gus can flat out play and tatar scores goes, when tats was up this year he was flying looked great most games and we all saw what gus can do. they both look like they are a few years from being huge difference makers for this team, and with guys like smith,dekeyser, sproul, ouellet,backman,mrazek,frk,jurco,jarncrock,pulkkinen and more you just gota have faith that some pan out better than others. But it looks like by the time guys like pav and z leave the wings will be in good hands.
 

VM1138

Registered User
Apr 30, 2007
471
0
Holland gives the impression that this offseason he's just going to nibble around the edges and make a tweak or two, and the Red Wings will be ready to compete for the Stanley Cup next season.

The current team could not get past the 2nd round of the playoffs, and next season's team is unlikely to fare better unless the Wings increase the level of their talent.

The increased talent must come from outside the organization becaue Datsyuk and Zetterburg are both in their mid 30's, and they will be too old to win a championship by the time the Wings' young players mature.

Moreover, during the past decade, what difference makers have the Wings produced through their system?

I respectfully submit that they have produced just one: Howard.

Abdelkader = no; solid checking line player;
Emmerton = no; third-fourth liner;
Helm = no; solid checker;
Filppula = no; solid 2nd-3rd liner;
Ericsson = no; 3rd liner playing as 1st liner;
Kindl = no; underachiever;
Quincy = no; 3rd line defenseman;
Smith = no; not yet, if ever.

The question is: where are the difference makers?

If the Wings are going to add the difference makers necesary for this Wings team to compete for the championship next season, the Wings are going to have to add those difference makers from outside the Wings organization.


Helm absolutely is a difference-maker. Aside from Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Howard, he's the most important player on this team for what he does. You can always tell when Helm isn't playing and he can change the course of a game by taking over a shift. Just because he's not a top line scorer doesn't mean he's not a difference maker. I'd take Helm over any other 3rd or 4th liner in the NHL. Him in the lineup makes us a much faster, more energetic, more chaotic team to play against.
 

A1Portable

Registered User
Nov 5, 2005
375
0
they are all in 1 place. Grand Rapids:sarcasm:

Yup! And they won't mature fast enough, and Holland won't promote them to the NHL soon enough, to be part of a championship team with Zetterburg and Datsyuk, who are both in their mid-30's.

So either Holland basically has decided he's not going to make a push for this Wings group to compete for the championship, or the Wings are going to have to increase their talent level with additions from outside the organization.
 

SportsballChic

Registered User
Jun 18, 2013
750
0
Toronto
Yup! And they won't mature fast enough, and Holland won't promote them to the NHL soon enough, to be part of a championship team with Zetterburg and Datsyuk, who are both in their mid-30's.

So either Holland basically has decided he's not going to make a push for this Wings group to compete for the championship, or the Wings are going to have to increase their talent level with additions from outside the organization.

You keep saying that but I'm not sure it's true. Not picking on you but this seems like quite a leap.

Yes, the forward situation is VERY crowed going into this season. But Jurco is TWENTY, Tinky Winky is 21, Jarnkrok is 21, Sproul is 20, Backman is 20.

Sheahan, Ferraro (and Mitch Callahan) got next but even then they do not HAVE to be here in 2013-14. If you respect Pavel and Hank that much you wouldn't be asking the team to surround them with boys. Our best chance *next* year isn't with the kids, they'll be here soon enough. Nobody wins the cup every year; if the season was 82 games we'd have been the 4th or 5th seed in the West and nobody would be freaking out like this.
 

A1Portable

Registered User
Nov 5, 2005
375
0
You keep saying that but I'm not sure it's true. Not picking on you but this seems like quite a leap.

Yes, the forward situation is VERY crowed going into this season. But Jurco is TWENTY, Tinky Winky is 21, Jarnkrok is 21, Sproul is 20, Backman is 20.

Sheahan, Ferraro (and Mitch Callahan) got next but even then they do not HAVE to be here in 2013-14. If you respect Pavel and Hank that much you wouldn't be asking the team to surround them with boys. Our best chance *next* year isn't with the kids, they'll be here soon enough. Nobody wins the cup every year; if the season was 82 games we'd have been the 4th or 5th seed in the West and nobody would be freaking out like this.

I agree with you. That's why I wrote that the young guys won't mature fast enough for Zetterburg and Datsyuk. That's why to win with the current core of Red Wings, the Wings organization needs to go outside the organization for a little boost in talent.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->