Confirmed with Link: When Will Werenski Sign (UPDATE: 9 September 2019, apparently - $15m/3yr)

[The Jones Zone]

I could be wrong, but does the last year being 7 influence his final RFA year's arbitration offer?

don't think so....not positive though

he will have arbitration rights

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

You might well not like them, but unless you've been sleeping the entire last year, you would have noticed that the RFA market has undergone massive changes. Ever hear of some guys named Matthews, Marner and Nylander?

At the end of the day, the CBJ are going to have to pay Z like a UFA next time they sign him. That's the way the market for RFAs is going (thanks child GM in Toronto!). The old strategy (that Jarmo used only one time-with Jones) of signing a top RFA to a long term discount is gone and probably not going to return.

Seems like this is the general trend across all major sports

 

[EspenK]

don't think so....not positive though

he will have arbitration rights

He will get a qualifying offer of 7 mill. If he chooses arbitration it starts with a clean slate.

 

[blahblah]

You might well not like them, but unless you've been sleeping the entire last year, you would have noticed that the RFA market has undergone massive changes. Ever hear of some guys named Matthews, Marner and Nylander?

Don't be an jerk. You know your response is completely and totally irrelevant to my post. My like or dislike has nothing to do with market trends and/or realities. You're just being a jerk to be a jerk.

If you didn't want to be a jerk you could have just said something along the lines of; "Yes, but unfortunately that seems to be the realities of the RFA market now." In this case you post would have been well received and you would have gotten your point across.

And people complain about my posting.

Good day.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Don't be an jerk. You know your response is completely and totally irrelevant to my post. My like or dislike has nothing to do with market trends and/or realities. You're just being a jerk to be a jerk.

If you didn't want to be a jerk you could have just said something along the lines of; "Yes, but unfortunately that seems to be the realities of the RFA market now." In this case you post would have been well received and you would have gotten your point across.

And people complain about my posting.

Good day.

And a good day to you as well.

 

[Crede777]

You might well not like them, but unless you've been sleeping the entire last year, you would have noticed that the RFA market has undergone massive changes. Ever hear of some guys named Matthews, Marner and Nylander?

At the end of the day, the CBJ are going to have to pay Z like a UFA next time they sign him. That's the way the market for RFAs is going (thanks child GM in Toronto!). The old strategy (that Jarmo used only one time-with Jones) of signing a top RFA to a long term discount is gone and probably not going to return.

I keep checking the CBA and I don't see any changes.

Or are we expecting teams to abandon rights granted to them during the previous CBA negotiations in exchange for nothing?

“When they have arbitration and they have unrestricted free agency, they try to take us to the woodshed. So now they have no leverage and they’re trying to take us to the woodshed,”

“You explain it to me. What are we supposed to do? We’re not being unfair. We’re following a document that’s right there in place.”

“What’s interesting is people talk who really don’t know the CBA or just want to see something happen. They say, ‘Well just meet halfway. Give him $4 million or $4.5 million.’ ” Davidson said. “That doesn’t make sense. You don’t just give him an extra million or two. A lot of people say it who are writers, broadcasters, fans…they don’t understand the process. They don’t understand the CBA. It’s sitting there. It’s a document. What are we supposed to do, give in when we have rights? Give in when they have rights? Just give in? It doesn’t make sense.”

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I keep checking the CBA and I don't see any changes.

Or are we expecting teams to abandon rights granted to them during the previous CBA negotiations in exchange for nothing?

The landscape for RFAs has changed. It should be obvious to anyone who has observed what has gone on over the past year. It is well within the confines of the CBA.

What is your point other than shilling for past failed CBJ RFA policy? I have no issue with the signing. I'm not as high on Werenski as most others. Sign him up for 8 years when he's a UFA and it's a certainty that he's worth big time money. Not that $5 million per year is chickenfeed.

 

[Crede777]

The landscape for RFAs has changed. It should be obvious to anyone who has observed what has gone on over the past year. It is well within the confines of the CBA.

What is your point other than shilling for past failed CBJ RFA policy? I have no issue with the signing. I'm not as high on Werenski as most others. Sign him up for 8 years when he's a UFA and it's a certainty that he's worth big time money. Not that $5 million per year is chickenfeed.

The landscape is governed by the CBA which has not changed.

The only change is a few GM's not being prudent in using their leverage to their team's advantage.

If a player only has one offer and no arbitration rights, then that offer is de facto the best one and market price.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

The landscape is governed by the CBA which has not changed.

The only change is a few GM's not being prudent in using the leverage to their team's advantage.

Now that would constitute a significant change, wouldn't it? Why are you stuck on the CBA? I never stated that it did.

Oh, and "prudent" would not be the RFA policies of Jarmo and JD. Imprudent and imputent would better describe those.

 

[Crede777]

Now that would constitute a significant change, wouldn't it? It's almost as if the Jarmo policy of not signing top RFAs to long term deals (one exception is Jones) is now standard. It's just that the numbers involved have gotten higher.

No because the decision of one GM doesn't actually affect what another GM can or cannot do.

Comparables don't come into play unless we are talking arbitration.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

No because the decision of one GM doesn't actually affect what another GM can or cannot do.

Comparables don't come into play unless we are talking arbitration.

Believe what you might. The landscape has changed. Like it or not.

 

[Crede777]

Believe what you might. The landscape has changed. Like it or not.

Maybe in the land of make believe and promises.

Everywhere else is governed by what is in writing.

We will see if Dubas gets rewarded for caving to Matthews, but I have a hard time believing Matthews wanted a deal walking him right up to UFA because he just couldn't wait to sign a 3rd contract with Toronto.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Maybe in the land of make believe and promises.

Everywhere else is governed by what is in writing.

So you're saying that the environment for RFAs is the same as it was two years ago, I guess. Offer sheets have been signed (Aho), short term/high$ contracts (Matthews) have been signed, drop dead date hold outs have happened (Nylander) and the league's top young guns (Marner and Point) remain unsigned as of now. All with the same CBA.

You're right. Nothing has changed. In the land of rainbows and unicorns.

 

[Crede777]

So you're saying that the environment for RFAs is the same as it was two years ago, I guess. Offer sheets have been signed (Aho), short term/high$ contracts (Matthews) have been signed, drop dead date hold outs have happened (Nylander) and the league's top young guns (Marner and Point) remain unsigned as of now. All with the same CBA.

You're right. Nothing has changed. In the land of rainbows and unicorns.

Players are testing the limits, sure, but this is a natural result of GM's failing to use the tools at their disposal.

If players were shown that holding out accomplishes nothing but sets their development back a year and hurts their next contract negotiation, they wouldn't be holding out.

I will concede that this offseason has been a bit of an anomaly but whether or not it becomes the norm is entirely up to the GM's.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Players are testing the limits, sure, but this is a natural result of GM's failing to use the tools at their disposal.

If players were shown that holding out accomplishes nothing but sets their development back a year and hurts their next contract negotiation, they wouldn't be holding out.

I will concede that this offseason has been a bit of an anomaly but whether or not it becomes the norm is entirely up to the GM's.

I agree with your statement entirely (bolded).

I look at the turning points as: 1) Eichel's deal 2) Draisatl's deal 3) Nylander 4) Matthews and 5) Marner.

Had the Toronto GM let Nylander sit for a year, then the landscape would have probably reverted-at least somewhat-to where it was. Until a GM lets a player sit for a year, then what we are seeing will be the norm. I can't see the days of top RFAs signing MacKinnon or Jones type deals returning. The salary structure among top RFAs has almost certainly taken a permanent upward shift due to Eichel, Draisatl and Matthews. However, if a player or two sits for a year, then the pendulum will swing a bit back toward the clubs/GMs and away from the RFAs.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I, personally, think it's great that the players have the upper-hand in NHL and NBA negotiations.

 

[EspenK]

I, personally, think it's great that the players have the upper-hand in NHL and NBA negotiations.

I assume this is in the vein of most of your posts just forgot the

 

[koteka]

Provorov signed for $6.75 x 6 years. Would love to have gotten 3 more years for Zach’s contract for something in that range.

 

[EspenK]

Marner's contract another example of how the RFA landscape has changed. Seems like Zach took a lesser deal than he could have. To get no signing bonuses as part of the deal is huge. He gets nothing if there is a lockout coming.

In my opinion the way the NHL does signing bonuses has to be addressed in the next CBA. Otherwise small market teams will have more trouble keeping their free agents.

 

[Old Guy]

You know....after listening to the talk about the crop of unsigned RFA's, I'm convinced that some General Manager (and it could be Jarmo) will get a signed offer sheet either on opening night or a day before. Allow me........

A club can always match an offer sheet. And those summer offer sheets allow a club to go 10% over the salary cap until opening night when they must be at, or under the salary cap. (I'm no CBA capologist, but.........) If an offer sheet were signed on opening day, I believe the original club owning the rights would still have 10 days to match. But they could be forced to jettison some players or contracts in a fire sale in order to match. It would really ramp up the pressure because the owning team would not have the additional 10% headroom (Max Headroom) while they work things out.

 

[majormajor]

Marner's contract another example of how the RFA landscape has changed. Seems like Zach took a lesser deal than he could have. To get no signing bonuses as part of the deal is huge. He gets nothing if there is a lockout coming.

In my opinion the way the NHL does signing bonuses has to be addressed in the next CBA. Otherwise small market teams will have more trouble keeping their free agents.

A lockout is looking super unlikely.

 

[stevo61]

A lockout is looking super unlikely.

Is it though? I see comments like Toews saying "last time the owners did a good job making the players look like the greedy ones" and really wonder if it actually is unlikely

 

[EspenK]

A lockout is looking super unlikely.

Why do you say that?one of the players who recently signed got nearly all of his 2022 salary in signing bonuses. If the NHLPA reopens the CBA on Monday that will be another clue, Need a link or some backup for this. ?

 

[majormajor]

Why do you say that?one of the players who recently signed got nearly all of his 2022 salary in signing bonuses. If the NHLPA reopens the CBA on Monday that will be another clue, Need a link or some backup for this. ?

NHL decision could help pave the way to labor peace until 2025 - TheHockeyNews

Basically the object of contention is the degree of escrow payments. Players are trying to get it lowered by a few percent. If they were fighting over something bigger I'd understand letting the CBA lapse, but you don't risk losing 100% of your salary to save a few % of it.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

NHL decision could help pave the way to labor peace until 2025 - TheHockeyNews

Basically the object of contention is the degree of escrow payments. Players are trying to get it lowered by a few percent. If they were fighting over something bigger I'd understand letting the CBA lapse, but you don't risk losing 100% of your salary to save a few % of it.

Yup. Players are likely to go after the Olympics too. But we'll see how that ends.