When will they retire Jagr's number?

Dessloch

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I don’t think it is bizarre for certain sects of our fanbase to hold a ton against Jags when it comes to his retirement. He basically spat in the team’s face twice and then tried to twist it as if he was doing the team a service (the comments about asking out so the Pens could resign Kovy, Lang and Straka) or that he was worth more when he himself told the franchise he would play for the Pens for league minimum.

He’s the most decisive Penguins player in a town that worships their sports idols.

Now, that was a tribute to Lemieux, something Jagr said to show his respect, but he did not mean it literally.

And again, I am not saying its wrong for people to hold a grudge, just stick to facts and do not make up stories to make Jagr a bigger villain. Its like the "dying alive" comment, which was made as a reflection of Jagrs OWN feeling about HIS GAME, for the first time in his career he was not producing as much as he thought he could, by his own high standards. The comment had nothing to do with city of Pittsburgh or the fans or anything else. It has been taken completely out of context as if Jagr disrespected Pittsburgh, the fans and the organization.
 

Gurglesons

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Now, that was a tribute to Lemieux, something Jagr said to show his respect, but he did not mean it literally.

And again, I am not saying its wrong for people to hold a grudge, just stick to facts and do not make up stories to make Jagr a bigger villain. Its like the "dying alive" comment, which was made as a reflection of Jagrs OWN feeling about HIS GAME, for the first time in his career he was not producing as much as he thought he could, by his own high standards. The comment had nothing to do with city of Pittsburgh or the fans or anything else.

I think you’re really letting your opinion of Jagr cloud his comments and behavior.
 

Dessloch

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I think you’re really letting your opinion of Jagr cloud his comments and behavior.

No, I think its the other way around. You are just as biased as I am, just that you have the reverse opinion.

"The “dying alive” narrative and subsequent booing of Jagr every time he touched the puck as a visiting player for years afterward? Shame on all of you – respected reporters included – who continue to misinterpret or misrepresent that. It was never aimed at the team, the city or the fans.

Jagr said, “I feel like I’m dying alive,” to describe his frustration over a prolonged slump during what would be his final season with the Penguins. That has been confirmed repeatedly and publicly by the reporter who asked the question. It was not a plea to get out of town.
Jagr is moody. He is “different.” But he has always adored Lemieux and had no ill feelings toward the city or the fans during his time in Pittsburgh."

Jaromir Jagr Deserves To Be Restored To Penguins’ Ring Of Honor
 

Gurglesons

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No, I think its the other way around. You are just as biased as I am, just that you have the reverse opinion.

"The “dying alive” narrative and subsequent booing of Jagr every time he touched the puck as a visiting player for years afterward? Shame on all of you – respected reporters included – who continue to misinterpret or misrepresent that. It was never aimed at the team, the city or the fans.

Jagr said, “I feel like I’m dying alive,” to describe his frustration over a prolonged slump during what would be his final season with the Penguins. That has been confirmed repeatedly and publicly by the reporter who asked the question. It was not a plea to get out of town.
Jagr is moody. He is “different.” But he has always adored Lemieux and had no ill feelings toward the city or the fans during his time in Pittsburgh."

Jaromir Jagr Deserves To Be Restored To Penguins’ Ring Of Honor

Weird. Dude asked for a trade twice.
 

Dessloch

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Weird. Dude asked for a trade twice.

Sure. But that does mean he hates the Penguins or does not appreciate what they did for him. Jagr has clearly stated at least 10 times during the last 15 years how thankful he is and that he owes the Penguins his career. That the Penguins took care of him when he arrived as a youngster etc, that he had a great time in Pittsburgh etc.

Does that mean he could not seek new challenges after 11 years? You seem to fail to understand that not every person is made out to play for 1 team their entire career, there is nothing wrong with that either. How many players do you seee spending 20 years at the same club?
 
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Dessloch

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Jagr on the possibilty of getting his jersey retired:

"Yet if Jagr is worrying about his place in franchise history, or whether his No. 68 will one day hang from the rafters at PPG Paints Arena, he isn’t letting on.

“It’s not up to me,” Jagr said. “Twenty or 30 years from now, if someone comes to the arena and knows that Jaromir Jagr played here, it would be nice. But it’s not in my hands.”

Jagr is equally unconcerned with the boos he receives here, something that has diminished over time but still happens with a group that believes he quit on the Penguins.

“If I would get booed from the fans because I didn’t try hard or I was a bad player, I would care. Because I didn’t try hard enough and I’d feel guilty,” Jagr said. “But somebody booing me because they heard something? And they don’t know the truth?"
 

Gurglesons

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Sure. But that does mean he hates the Penguins or does not appreciate what they did for him. Jagr has clearly stated at least 10 times during the last 15 years how thankful he is and that he owes the Penguins his career. That the Penguins took care of him when he arrived as a youngster etc, that he had a great time in Pittsburgh etc.

Does that mean he could not seek new challenges after 11 years? You seem to fail to understand that not every person is made out to play for 1 team their entire career, there is nothing wrong with that either. How many players do you seee spending 20 years at the same club?

We’ll likely have four that get close to it. Who all deserve their numbers retired.

And that’s great in retrospect that Jags feels good. Guess what? When you have a bad break up with a partner and realize how you acted was stupid does it change it?
 

EightyOne

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I'd 10000% vote him into the HHoF easy peasy ham n cheesy

But 5000% would likely vote against a jersey retirement
 

Dessloch

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I'd 10000% vote him into the HHoF easy peasy ham n cheesy

But 5000% would likely vote against a jersey retirement

Jagr was a lock for hall of fame in the year of 2000 already, before ending up 2nd in all time points 15 years later, thats a slam dunk.
 

Dessloch

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I remember this thread on a different Penguins forum which is never took part in, the OP was:


I can't believe I'm doing this,, but I'm gonna punch a hole in the wall if I see another "dying alive" reference.

This is from the Smizik column thread:

"Jagr is not booed because he was traded. He's booed because he whined and moaned about Pittsburgh on his way out. At one point, he said that he was "dying alive" with the Penguins. That did not go over well and that's why he's harshly treated whenever he returns. That said, when he reaches milestones or when he played his last game, Pens fans have saluted him.​


How many times does this have to be mentioned? Jagr's "dying alive" comment has been blown to monumental proportions. I can't believe some people still continue to bring that comment when talking about Jagr. Didn't he already say that is something he said after he went pointless for 4 consecutive games at the start of the 2000-01 season, before Lemieux returned? Don't you guys know how odd Jagr is and how poorly he commands the English language? Wouldn't this be something that you would just let go right away after he said it?

The media blew this comment up, and the fans never let it go. The REAL reason why Jagr is booed is because he was asked to be traded and didn't explain his reasons for it. He left on bad terms.

Also I'd like to say that I'm baffled at the fact that some people seem to forget that Jaromir Jagr, is, well, Jaromir Jagr. He's always been private and difficult to understand. He's always been a troubled guy, and the reasons behind him leaving were never made public.

Now, the other thing that bothers me is that the Pens' new generation of fans now boo him because the same people that booed him in 2001-02 when he first came back as a Capital have CONTINUED to boo him, which makes no sense at all. How many players won more scoring titles than Jagr in the history of the NHL? Oh, that's right, 2! Gretzky and Lemieux. Jagr had 11 great seasons here and the Pens NEVER would have made the playoffs in 97-98, 98-99 and 99-00 if it wasn't for him. We saw playoff hockey in Pittsburgh for 3 years thanks to Jaromir Jagr.

Have you people ever considered how Mario felt about Jagr being booed? Booing him is something that probably should have happened for 2 or 3 years. It made sense back then. It didn't make sense this year. Or the last 3 for that matter. Plus, if we had kept Jagr, we wouldn't have Fleury, Crosby and Malkin now. We could have ended up like Toronto, a team that will probably finish just out of the playoffs for seasons to come.

But forget Mario for a second. Think of Jagr himself. You think he doesn't regret leaving Pittsburgh the way he did? Are you kidding me?! Watch Jagr's 14-minute interview with the media in the Burgh before the start of the Rangers series. It's still on KDKA.com's video library. Search for Jagr and it's the 3rd video there. He clearly was very emotional and even though a lot of it was hard to understand and his explanation for leaving is probably just a bad excuse (he said he left because there would be no money for the Kovalev-Straka-Lang line), you can tell he regrets leaving the way he did.

Who knows, maybe Jagr himself considered coming back after we lost out on Hossa but didn't because he would feel very awkward coming back to an arena where a lot of people seem to hate him. I sure as hell would have taken him back over Miro Satan (although I think playing with Crosby will revive his career). Jagr was great in the playoffs against us. But maybe the fans helped burn that bridge.

The guy didn't deserve to be booed every time he came back. Not after the 11 great seasons he had with us. He helped us win 2 Cups and was huge in the playoffs from the beginning of his career up until the 2000 playoffs. Remember game 3 of the Flyers series in 2000? And game 6 and 7 against Jersey in 99? How could you have continued to boo THAT guy?! Plus, Jagr always credited the Pens and Mario. He always said Mario was the greatest ever, his mentor, and that he probably wouldn't be the player he is today if it wasn't for the Pens. He just didn't deserve the treatment that he got.
 

EightyOne

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1) who wouldn't credit Mario or the Pens for their career? That is not a special character trait.

2) he was not that big of a part of the Cup teams

3) he didn't pull the decent but not great teams to any success

4) he probably didn't deserve to be booed every single time....and the dying alive has grown too big...but...if you wanna paint him as someone who wanted a different challenge after a decade, why the heck didnt he use those words instead?
 

Dessloch

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To everyone holding on the myth that Jagr only plays for money:


Jagr on his facebook site in Czech native language:

It's 11:15pm. Most people are asleep and I'm just finishing my last exercise with my 30lb vest in the gym. I sit on the bench to have some rest. I look at myself in the mirror. After a while, I ask myself a question: 'Is it really still worth it?' Unfortunately, I don't think I can answer this question. I really can't. I keep thinking: 'You are alone, no family, you work like a horse, there is no one waiting for you at home....' This doesn't sound too great, I think. But then another question pops up: 'Then why do you keep doing it?' I know the answer to this question without hesitation. 'Because I love it.'"

Jagr seemed surprised when asked what motivates him to keep playing.
"You want to do things that make you happy, you don't need the motivation to do it," he said. "There's millions of people who'd be happy to do what I do for one day. There's millions of people who have to go to their regular job and after their job at 12 o'clock at night, they go to play hockey, and have to pay for the ice. Do they have motivation? No, they love it."
Jagr appreciative of place in hockey history
-

It’s just that this is something he thinks about at age 43. And after going through all the reasons he’s still playing—his love of the game, how he doesn’t want to start another career, how it’s more fun than your usual 9-to-5—Jagr reaches what he explains is the “most important thing.”
“The time between when I quit hockey and I die,” he says, looking at the gap between his hands, which is now only a couple inches wide, “I want it to be the shortest.”
Jagr continues: "If I can play till I die, that's what I will do.

The enduring Jaromir Jagr: An oral history - Sportsnet.ca

-
He's made more than $50 million, so the question begs: What drives this two-time Stanley Cup champion and nine-time All-Star forward to continue to play a sport with players young enough to be his sons?

"I've never been motivated by trophies or whoever won,'' Jagr said before training camp began last week. "I do this sport because I love it. When you look around there's people, they don't make a living by playing hockey, they have a regular job and they still go play 15 against 15 at midnight just to be there, paying for the ice, so they have to love it, too.
"I know I'm going to be one of those guys. Why not do it right now?'

Panthers' Jaromir Jagr, 43, still driven and impressively fit
 

Dessloch

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4) he probably didn't deserve to be booed every single time....and the dying alive has grown too big...but...if you wanna paint him as someone who wanted a different challenge after a decade, why the heck didnt he use those words instead?

Jagr never used any words to describe why he left. There is still no official explanation. The only logical reason is he needed a change or new challenge.

Asked last week about his trade requests and desire to leave Pittsburgh, Jagr seemed to take issue with the idea that he wanted out.“People believe whatever they want to believe. They never been there,” Jagr said. “They never been involved in it. It was only me and Craig Patrick that was there in that room.“I know the truth, Craig knows the truth and God knows the truth. That’s all that matters.” Jagr declined to elaborate on what was actually said in that room with Patrick, but he did say he thought it made sense for the Penguins to have traded him."
 

EightyOne

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"Asked last week about his trade requests and desire to leave Pittsburgh, Jagr seemed to take issue with the idea that he wanted out.“People believe whatever they want to believe. They never been there,” Jagr said. “They never been involved in it. It was only me and Craig Patrick that was there in that room.“I know the truth, Craig knows the truth and God knows the truth. That’s all that matters.” Jagr declined to elaborate on what was actually said in that room with Patrick, but he did say he thought it made sense for the Penguins to have traded him."

.....Be a lot easier if the did, tho



 

Dessloch

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1) who wouldn't credit Mario or the Pens for their career? That is not a special character trait.

The reason I mentioned that is to counter the false claims that Jagr has nothing but contempt and hates the Penguins, that is all.

"Jagr emphatically denied one of the impressions people had, that he did not want to play again with Mario Lemieux when he came back after his first retirement that year. Lemieux was Jagrs boyhood idol, the leader of the team that won Stanley Cups in 1991 and 1992.

“Without him, I wouldnt be playing right now, Jagr said. “I learned everything from him. I am going to still respect him until I die. You have respect the players, the teachers that you learned from. Without him, without being drafted by the Pittsburgh Penguins, without seeing him play, who knows where I would be? Maybe I wouldnt play hockey at all."
 

Gurglesons

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To everyone holding on the myth that Jagr only plays for money:


Jagr on his facebook site in Czech native language:

It's 11:15pm. Most people are asleep and I'm just finishing my last exercise with my 30lb vest in the gym. I sit on the bench to have some rest. I look at myself in the mirror. After a while, I ask myself a question: 'Is it really still worth it?' Unfortunately, I don't think I can answer this question. I really can't. I keep thinking: 'You are alone, no family, you work like a horse, there is no one waiting for you at home....' This doesn't sound too great, I think. But then another question pops up: 'Then why do you keep doing it?' I know the answer to this question without hesitation. 'Because I love it.'"

Jagr seemed surprised when asked what motivates him to keep playing.
"You want to do things that make you happy, you don't need the motivation to do it," he said. "There's millions of people who'd be happy to do what I do for one day. There's millions of people who have to go to their regular job and after their job at 12 o'clock at night, they go to play hockey, and have to pay for the ice. Do they have motivation? No, they love it."
Jagr appreciative of place in hockey history
-

It’s just that this is something he thinks about at age 43. And after going through all the reasons he’s still playing—his love of the game, how he doesn’t want to start another career, how it’s more fun than your usual 9-to-5—Jagr reaches what he explains is the “most important thing.”
“The time between when I quit hockey and I die,” he says, looking at the gap between his hands, which is now only a couple inches wide, “I want it to be the shortest.”
Jagr continues: "If I can play till I die, that's what I will do.

The enduring Jaromir Jagr: An oral history - Sportsnet.ca

-
He's made more than $50 million, so the question begs: What drives this two-time Stanley Cup champion and nine-time All-Star forward to continue to play a sport with players young enough to be his sons?

"I've never been motivated by trophies or whoever won,'' Jagr said before training camp began last week. "I do this sport because I love it. When you look around there's people, they don't make a living by playing hockey, they have a regular job and they still go play 15 against 15 at midnight just to be there, paying for the ice, so they have to love it, too.
"I know I'm going to be one of those guys. Why not do it right now?'

Panthers' Jaromir Jagr, 43, still driven and impressively fit

You seem to think if someone says something and acts a certain way that what they’ve said takes precedent over their actions.
 

Dessloch

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"Asked last week about his trade requests and desire to leave Pittsburgh, Jagr seemed to take issue with the idea that he wanted out.“People believe whatever they want to believe. They never been there,” Jagr said. “They never been involved in it. It was only me and Craig Patrick that was there in that room.“I know the truth, Craig knows the truth and God knows the truth. That’s all that matters.” Jagr declined to elaborate on what was actually said in that room with Patrick, but he did say he thought it made sense for the Penguins to have traded him."

.....Be a lot easier if the did, tho

I did find this:

“We went through the tough times with bankruptcy and the team didnt have a lot of money, Jagr said. “Marty Straka, Robert Lang, Alex Kovalev were free agents, all three of them. We werent going to be able to sign all of them. I thought, its going to be a lot easier for a team to trade one guy than let go three guys. Thats why I made the step. Its going to be easier for the organization. If they lost all three of them, I didnt think it was going to be good for the team. "It happened eight years ago and nobody knew the truth," Jagr said. "Yes I did, I told [general manager] Craig Patrick I wanted to be traded. But this is the real reason I did it.. I was sad when they traded me."Maybe I could have pushed them to find the money or maybe get the new arena. But when you are a young player you don't think like a businessman. You don't understand how tough it is to make money."
 

Dessloch

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You seem to think if someone says something and acts a certain way that what they’ve said takes precedent over their actions.

Acts? LOL. Do you believe Jagr acted his entire career when he was the hardest working player of them all?

"I remember dealing with Jags in Pittsburgh, you could barely get a word out of him," John Dellapina said Thursday. "I hated the way he was portrayed as a prima donna; he works his ass off. I was told, 'You don't know the half of it, you should see what he does at night."

So, he went up to Jagr and asked about the late-evening workouts.

"He said, 'Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you can never write about it.' There were two reasons: the first was, 'I've got something going for me here and I don't want let everyone in on it.' Number two, he didn't want to make a big deal about it. He didn't want to be seen as grandstanding."

"When he was here, most times he went to the gym in his building," Rosasco wrote. "He took in Petr Prucha in Prucha's rookie year. Prucha told me what Jags would do at night and said to me, 'While the rest of the NHL is sleeping, he is working.'"
 

Dessloch

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You seem to think if someone says something and acts a certain way that what they’ve said takes precedent over their actions.

Btw, are you of the impression that the 2000-01 season will define Jaromir Jagr and nullify what he has done before and since then? I get that impression. If you have a friend and that friend makes a mistake or acts badly once, do you "ban" him for life for that? No second chances for people?
 

Gurglesons

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Btw, are you of the impression that the 2000-01 season will define Jaromir Jagr and nullify what he has done before and since then? I get that impression. If you have a friend and that friend makes a mistake or acts badly once, do you "ban" him for life for that? No second chances for people?

He had a second chance. Spurned his “idol” Mario and signed with the worst team he possibly could from a Pitt perspective.

Guarantee if they retire his number Jags doesn’t even show up.
 

Dessloch

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2) he was not that big of a part of the Cup teams

In 1991-92 playoffs at 19 years old:

21 games 11 goals and 13 assists, 24 points.

Couple of OT game winners.

And that with limited ice time, I dont think you should discount that.

 

Dessloch

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Didn't you destroy a rented building with fecal matter as reported in several lawsuits?

If its Shawn Lesky or Shawnlesky you are referring to, no I did not do that as I am not him. I dont know what he did either, other than that everytime I write something someone responds with a personal attack on Shawn. I am considering making a username change, that might be good.

I dont really get how it matters anyway, if Shawn would like to come here and post his opinion on Jagr or anything else Pens related I would be fine with it, I am here to discuss hockey and not random users personal life.
 
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Dessloch

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If you look at facebook, twitter or news article comments its pretty clear Jagr has the support and love from most Pittsburghers. I would about 90% of the posts are positive, and then we have the extremely passionate haters that really just cant wait to start spreading their hate in the comment sections. During the last 20 years they´ve built up more and more hate towards Jagr and now they are going to make sure to voice there opinion as loud and agressive as possible to hopefully be able to convince some neutrals that Jagr was an assshat and therefore needs to be punished for life! Thats their goal and they wont hesitate to use information that probably is not true as a weapon!

I will be there to give these haters the finger when Jagrs jersey is retired, because it will be, just wait and see!
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

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Is it OK to think that there are some pretty boneheaded opinions on both sides of this topic because that's where I'm at.
 

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