When will they retire Jagr's number?

[SomeDude]

Like him or not, the Pens wouldn’t be here if he hadn’t thrown an 8th seed team on his back (with a mangled groin) to upset the Devils in 1999. That extra bit of revenue from making it to the next round kept their head above water for the time being.

He’ll get his number retired if and when he ever retires from pro hockey.

 

[billybudd]

Gotcha.

Thing is, this piece came out in The Athletic earlier in the season - Finding Jagr: On Phil Bourque’s quest to connect with his... - and I think it's got a different message. It's about Phil Bourque going over to the Czech Republic and talking to Jagr, but there's quite a lot about the possibility of him getting his number retired.
...I'm gonna quote from bits of it:

"The Penguins, at Lemieux’s request, have been trying for years to persuade Jagr to return to Pittsburgh to have his number retired.
...
“I told him then that we want to retire his number,” McMillan [VP of Communications] said [at NHL 100 event]. “I said to him then: ’68 belongs up with 66, your number next to Mario’s.'”
...
However, since Bourque, like others, had heard Lemieux was the person in the organization most insistent on Jagr joining him in a form of franchise immortality — well, maybe that was a point only Bourque could make clear to Jagr, who told Bourque the last time he spoke with Lemieux was at that NHL centennial event.
...
Jagr made Bourque a promise: Within a year of playing his last professional hockey game, he would return to Pittsburgh for the Penguins to retire No. 68.
On one condition.
Bourque had to make sure fans in attendance cheered — “and for a long time.” "

Apols to mods if that's too much quoted, but I thought it more impactful to quote than summarise. McMillan and Bourque aren't providing quotes for this article unless a) The Pens org really wants it b) They're pretty damn sure there won't be egg on their face. To me that supersedes Tocchet's comments from four years ago.

Life can change quick but right now it looks like it's happening, whether people like it or not, and it's just a matter of when.

My takeaway from this excerpt is the same as it was from the radio interview. Mario would be happy to retire Jagr's number, but the front office has little confidence that Jagr would co-operate. Normally, you don't need to send your color guy, who was once the man's friend, on a transcontinental journey to make a face to face sales pitch offering to honor him, which tells me they don't trust 68 to appreciate (or value) a jersey retirement. If it were Paul Coffey (or any normal player), you'd just shoot him a text message, he'd text back an excited thanks, you'd hammer out the details with his agent and that would be it.

Jagr's response wouldn't inspire confidence in me, were I in the Penguins front office's shoes either. The article calls it a promise, but it's typical Jagr--joking non-commitment commitment. When he says stuff like this in the past and doesn't do it, he always claims he wasn't serious. And who's to say he ever goes a year without playing a professional hockey game? When he was young, he talked about playing into his 60s, and he owns Kladno, so it's not like he'd ever not get offered a playing contract, no matter how much his game deteriorated.

He doesn't travel with the team now; is it a reach to think he'd sign himself to a contract, usually collect a paycheck from IR and just suit up every few weeks/months whenever he feels like it for years on end?

 

[HandshakeLine]

For the life of me, I just can't understand why so many fans are desperate to honor a player that just simply does not care about the honor, the team, or most importantly, the fans. It's just weird to me.

And that's not a slam on Jagr at all. He's earned the right to do whatever he wants, and he seems genuinely happy to be back in his little town where he is the king of all creation. He doesn't owe us anything, and more to the point, I'm glad he's not trying to fake giving a shit about it.

 

[Peat]

Mario isn't happy to do it, he actively badly wants it done.

They didn't send Bourque there to persuade Jagr, McMillan was feeling confident it was settled and just a matter of logistics, but since Bourque was going to Prague and his girlfriend was all "Why not talk to Jagr", they asked him to raise the issue as well because Mario actively badly wants it done.

And if the front office had little confidence in it getting done, the VP of Communications wouldn't be giving a bunch of quotes to an article that basically says "It will happen".

I mean, I don't really care. I never saw him play as a Penguin, or a Flyer, or whatever. Think I saw him as a Flame? I'd edge towards him not being there but - if the guy who is basically the Pittsburgh Penguins thinks his jersey should be up there with his, who am I to argue?

Maybe Jagr being Jagr interferes after all but anyone who believes that the Penguins - particularly Mario - don't want it done, aren't actively pursuing it, and aren't confident it will happen is wrong.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The Penguins were also confident multiple times that Jagr would return to the Pens.

All I know is that Jagr watching is a national sport here and anyone that thinks that Jagr a) cares about the Penguins and b) has anything but contempt for Pittsburgh is pretty much kidding themselves, based on his years of speaking candidly to the Czech press.

 

[Peat]

The Penguins were also confident multiple times that Jagr would return to the Pens.

All I know is that Jagr watching is a national sport here and anyone that thinks that Jagr a) cares about the Penguins and b) has anything but contempt for Pittsburgh is pretty much kidding themselves, based on his years of speaking candidly to the Czech press.

You may be right on all that - again, I don't know the history, and again, what the Penguins say may not be what happens - all I can speak on is what's coming out from the Penguins, and I feel the need to do so as some seem to be ascribing a lack of desire and confidence in what will happen that doesn't tally up. And maybe they're wrong to be so confident - Bourque himself says in the article it's easier to meet the Pope than get Jagr to commit to anything - but that's where they are publicly are. And it'd be a weird thing to project more confidence on than is being internally felt.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Not at all, I think Peat. I think that the organization would dearly like it to happen and knows that making the overtures publicly like this to Jagr increase the likelihood that it might happen sometime, perhaps playing a bit longer game than people realize.

I also think it's perfectly in line with what Billy and I said-- essentially, the organization cannot retire Jagr's number no matter how much Lemieux or other front office brass want to, without Jagr himself wanting it to happen and making it happen. And all indications right now suggest that Jagr does not want it to happen, or at the very least does not care about it happening in any real fashion.

But things change, and Jagr may well change his mind, especially after he retires and begins to miss the limelight here in Česko and in the US. But, again, I don't see Pittsburgh retiring his number as important to him at all-- there's too much uncertainty, not enough unquestioning devotion.

 

[Gurglesons]

You may be right on all that - again, I don't know the history, and again, what the Penguins say may not be what happens - all I can speak on is what's coming out from the Penguins, and I feel the need to do so as some seem to be ascribing a lack of desire and confidence in what will happen that doesn't tally up. And maybe they're wrong to be so confident - Bourque himself says in the article it's easier to meet the Pope than get Jagr to commit to anything - but that's where they are publicly are. And it'd be a weird thing to project more confidence on than is being internally felt.

I think Jags will be retired eventually, but with Sid and Geno coming close to the end of their careers, I see no reason why they won’t get it first. Sid especially given the site arrangements in PPG.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Sid better be in the rafters the next day after he hangs up his skates.

 

[Khelandros]

My takeaway from this excerpt is the same as it was from the radio interview. Mario would be happy to retire Jagr's number, but the front office has little confidence that Jagr would co-operate. Normally, you don't need to send your color guy, who was once the man's friend, on a transcontinental journey to make a face to face sales pitch offering to honor him, which tells me they don't trust 68 to appreciate (or value) a jersey retirement. If it were Paul Coffey (or any normal player), you'd just shoot him a text message, he'd text back an excited thanks, you'd hammer out the details with his agent and that would be it.

Jagr's response wouldn't inspire confidence in me, were I in the Penguins front office's shoes either. The article calls it a promise, but it's typical Jagr--joking non-commitment commitment. When he says stuff like this in the past and doesn't do it, he always claims he wasn't serious. And who's to say he ever goes a year without playing a professional hockey game? When he was young, he talked about playing into his 60s, and he owns Kladno, so it's not like he'd ever not get offered a playing contract, no matter how much his game deteriorated.

He doesn't travel with the team now; is it a reach to think he'd sign himself to a contract, usually collect a paycheck from IR and just suit up every few weeks/months whenever he feels like it for years on end?

The front office didn't send Bourque to meet Jagr. If you had read the whole article, probably not because it's locked behind an Athletic paywall, you would have read that Bourque and his GF were looking into what to do during the teams mandatory break. They decided to go to Prague cause they had never been. Below is the quote,

Had he not started dating his girlfriend Ali Romano late last summer, Bourque never would have made that call to Jagr last month. He had wanted to use the NHL All-Star break, which for the Penguins coincided with their mandated five days off for a bye week, to spend time with Romano. He needed it. She needed it. They needed it.
And, well, European cities can feel more magical in the winter.
“I was thinking of going somewhere and I thought, it just popped into my head: Prague!” Bourque said. “I had heard great things about it and always wanted to go when I lived in Germany for three years. I always said I was going to go, that it wasn’t that far away, but I’d never do it.”
As they discussed the upcoming trip Romano nudged the notion of “finding Jags, seeing him play one last time.”

Front office had nothing to do with it. The McMillan quotes were about him talking to Jagr at the NHL 100 celebration.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Four Cups?

He’s counting the 2020 one Jake will help us get this year. Though I suppose Fleury won’t be around for it.

 

[Andy99]

He’s counting the 2020 one Jake will help us get this year. Though I suppose Fleury won’t be around for it.

Have we won anything in the Sid-G era without Kunitz and Fleury? Don’t count your chickens....

 

[Gurglesons]

Have we won anything in the Sid-G era without Kunitz and Fleury? Don’t count your chickens....

I honestly think Kunitz over Recchi would be a huge deal for the room.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I honestly think Kunitz over Recchi would be a huge deal for the room.

As an assistant, you mean? I'd be down.

 

[Gurglesons]

As an assistant, you mean? I'd be down.

Ye. Especially given Kunitz was actually a huge part of our PP versus Recchi not knowing anything about this team’s PP apparently.

 

[billybudd]

I honestly think Kunitz over Recchi would be a huge deal for the room.

Kunitz probably does have the makings of a coach. Player who got by more on competitiveness and guile than athletic gifts. For a guy with an ugly sort of game, Kunitz was more cerebral than people like him usually are.

 

[Gurglesons]

Kunitz probably does have the makings of a coach. Player who got by more on competitiveness and guile than athletic gifts. For a guy with an ugly sort of game, Kunitz was more cerebral than people like him usually are.

Especially given the fact Kuni assimilated himself into multiple top six roles with Geno, Sid, and MacDonald.

 

[EightyOne]

He’s counting the 2020 one Jake will help us get this year. Though I suppose Fleury won’t be around for it.

MAF will be a big help...


...when he bats the pens Cup winner into his own net!

(Yeah I know they won't meet...it's a damn joke, geez)

 

[HandshakeLine]

On a related note, it's always weird to hear Americans talking about my adopted hometown, because it so rarely seems to have any connection with the Prague I know and love. Or it's all about things that are better elsewhere in the country.

But mainly, I'm a little jealous that people get to experience the magical parts of Prague, whereas I've been here long enough that I forget what parts are exotic and beautiful.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Yeah...accomplishments on the team?

Great. For sure.

Fan favorite or local cultural hero deserving of a retired number?

f*** no.

I don't even think Geno's should be. Sid a hard maybe.

I think retiring numbers is borderline idiotic.

Just name a luxury suite after em or parking lot out front lol

I understand Geno not being retired, but if Crosby finishes out this contract with possibly a short extension afterwards playing as a Penguin from day one in the league all the way to retirement while winning 3 cups, hopefully one or two more, while being the Captain almost the entire time he’s worn a Pens jersey... I would be absolutely astonished if they didn’t retire his number.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I understand Geno not being retired, but if Crosby finishes out this contract with possibly a short extension afterwards playing as a Penguin from day one in the league all the way to retirement while winning 3 cups, hopefully one or two more, while being the Captain almost the entire time he’s worn a Pens jersey... I would be absolutely astonished if they didn’t retire his number.

Sid is absolutely going to be retired, I'd imagine. Especially if he nets another Cup before he hangs them up.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I actually for the longest time argued that people vastly overblow Jagr's "slight" to Pittsburgh and should just get over it. Dude is a legend and created most of his best moment here in Pittsburgh. But at this point why TF should the team beg?

Honestly outside of guys like Mario I don't much like the idea of retiring numbers, either. Even Crosby makes me a tad uncomfortable. Though I can understand.

 

[Gurglesons]

I actually for the longest time argued that people vastly overblow Jagr's "slight" to Pittsburgh and should just get over it. Dude is a legend and created most of his best moment here in Pittsburgh. But at this point why TF should the team beg?

Honestly outside of guys like Mario I don't much like the idea of retiring numbers, either. Even Crosby makes me a tad uncomfortable. Though I can understand.

The fact our building honors Sid points to his inevitable retirement.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I actually for the longest time argued that people vastly overblow Jagr's "slight" to Pittsburgh and should just get over it. Dude is a legend and created most of his best moment here in Pittsburgh. But at this point why TF should the team beg?

Honestly outside of guys like Mario I don't much like the idea of retiring numbers, either. Even Crosby makes me a tad uncomfortable. Though I can understand.

How can retiring Sid's number make anyone uncomfortable?

The guy is a top 10 player ever and would be the best player ever for any franchise not named the Pens, the Oilers, the Bruins or the Red Wings. Yes, he would even be greater than any Leaf or Hab.

In a team that has Mario Lemieux, sure, we can be picky, but Sid is as automatic as it gets. Geno too, frankly.

Being uncomfortable about Letang or MAF, that, I'd get.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I do hold pretty firm to two out of 3 requirements for retiring a Pens' number:

1) Be a central part of the franchise's identity for the entirety of their career. Jagr's lack of a full or nearly career here is the bigger disqualifier IMO than him hating the city.

2) Be an absolutely unique player that is an all time great and the reason for this team's success- Sid is a little shakier here, and Malkin maybe even slightly more so. I'm greedy. I want us to be SPECIAL when we retire our numbers, because f*** every other franchise.

3) Have a tragic early demise.

It's not at all like any other franchise does it, but again, f*** every other franchise. I don't want us to be like the Caps. Or the Rags. Or the Beejs, or whatever team other people watch.