When will Rich Tocchet be fired (or otherwise cease being our head coach)?

[cobra427]

Not to turn this into a Tippett vs Tocchet thing, but Tippett took a far less talented roster and got 107 points out of it. It was 28 points better than the year before.

I really think even with minimal roster change (not what I'm hoping for) you could see a similar effect with the new coach, like when Tippett took over for Gretzky.

There are some good pieces here.

TGO was a really badd coach and Tip was a really good coach. I don't think RT was as bad as TGO, or that a new coach would be as good at Tip with that roster. I don't see a 28 point change, but 10-15 is certainly reasonable.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

All of Coyotes fan Twitter. Apart from the most zealous of the Craig Morgan acolytes.

Not so. True that Craig is a homer of the worst kind, but I'm happy at least someone in the local press is paying attention to the team. I disagree with the idea that Tocchet is brilliant. I disagree with the idea the Tocchet is terrable. He is a serviceable coach.

Morgan is spot on in his comments (or was it Lapinski or Peters) that the team goes nowhere fast with mid range first round picks. They need a number of top 5 picks in the next 3-4 years.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

They need a number of top 5 picks in the next 3-4 years.

Just how do propose that is going to happen? How many saki’s have you slammed bonsai?

 

[Jakey53]

Not to turn this into a Tippett vs Tocchet thing, but Tippett took a far less talented roster and got 107 points out of it. It was 28 points better than the year before.

I really think even with minimal roster change (not what I'm hoping for) you could see a similar effect with the new coach, like when Tippett took over for Gretzky.

There are some good pieces here.

You will probably see 4-6 changes this year.

 

[Jakey53]

TBH I've never liked 90 % of the roster but was truly impressed when they put it together in stretches. I would never draft or sign a Keller type player unless I was very confident that he was exceptional, skill just isn't enough. And I woukd never sign a player to a long expensive contract because he was my best when in reality he just isn't a League leader. It hurts your ability to improve.

I was OK with Dvo and Chick contracts as they were reasonable and likely to give value. I did not like OEL, Schmaltz, or Keller contracts for one second. At tge time I said Chayka was either a genius or would bury the franchise. The latter was hyperbole but closer the first.

For the last two years, myself and others have said the mix is wrong and we need toughness. If BA can fix these problems, we will be a better team. As far as contracts go, every team has good and bad ones, there is no way getting around it, and it's also cyclical. No bad contracts this year, two or three bad next year.

 

[Jakey53]

Tip/Galant/torts/Q are good coaches, they get more out of the roster, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. That is how I judge a coach, it has nothing to do with talent level, vet team, young team, rebuilding team, etc, a good coach is a good coach for any roster.

RT got less with more, that is my problem with him.

Exactly, and that is why these coaches get hired again, and again, and again.

 

[Jakey53]

Just how do propose that is going to happen? How many saki’s have you slammed bonsai?

Some people like to dream.

 

[rt]

Not so. True that Craig is a homer of the worst kind, but I'm happy at least someone in the local press is paying attention to the team. I disagree with the idea that Tocchet is brilliant. I disagree with the idea the Tocchet is terrable. He is a serviceable coach.

Morgan is spot on in his comments (or was it Lapinski or Peters) that the team goes nowhere fast with mid range first round picks. They need a number of top 5 picks in the next 3-4 years.

You say “not so” and then proceed to say a bunch of things that couldn’t be more beside the point.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Just how do propose that is going to happen? How many saki’s have you slammed bonsai?

Trade Chychrun, Dvo, Keller, Schmaltz for picks.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

You say “not so” and then proceed to say a bunch of things that couldn’t be more beside the point.

OK - I guess I dropped the sentence mid thought. Not all Coyotes fans on Twitter hate RT. Clearly, the more passionate the feeling, the more vocal. Lots of hate for RT, but not nearly all Coyotes fans on Twitter hate him.

Firing, or letting walk the Coach is a feel good. The management buys time with fans it wants to keep happy. It shows that management is doing something. My feeling is that coaching is not the most pressing issue and everybody is focused on this shiny round object while management gets a pass on the piss poor talent acquisition. This team, regardless of coach, should come in 2nd place in the AHL, first with a good coach. All this stuff about how Tippet went to the West finals with less talent, nonsense. Tippet had tremendous talent between the pipes. Smith was in his prime. 2.21 GAA. Hanzal was better than DVO by far. Doan was a bull. He was also a true leader. Doan had 22 goals. Korpi had 15 goals. Whitney had 25 goals. Ollie had 13, Yands had 11. Tippett is a proven coach, better than RT, but in comparison, Tippett, not RT, had better talent to coach.

 

[Jakey53]

Trade Chychrun, Dvo, Keller, Schmaltz for picks.

Really? That's all you have for a response to a sensible question? Boy, you are climbing that totem pole to the top fast, and not in a good way.

 

[TheLegend]

Really? That's all you have for a response to a sensible question? Boy, you are climbing that totem pole to the top fast, and not in a good way.

Is he??

There’s been talk here of trading every single player he’s mentioned at one time or another.

 

[PuckLife]

I think that most players lack an identity. Our singers don’t sing consistently and our dancers don’t dance.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Trade Chychrun, Dvo, Keller, Schmaltz for picks.

You think Dvo, Keller and Schmaltz are gonna land us top fives?

 

[Grimes]

You think Dvo, Keller and Schmaltz are gonna land us top fives?

Stepan landed the 7th overall. Just has to be the right team who had a down year or who was rebuilding and wants to begin competing. Imagine if Detroit loses the lotto and gets the 7thOA. Do you not think they would consider moving it for Dvo, especially with their lack of center depth?

 

[Bonsai Tree]

You think Dvo, Keller and Schmaltz are gonna land us top fives?

I would hope for one top 5 for Chychrun and who knows? We could trade for a 1st in 2022 and the team who got one or two of those players could unexpectedly implode.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Really? That's all you have for a response to a sensible question? Boy, you are climbing that totem pole to the top fast, and not in a good way.

I think that we could get a top 5 for sure for Chychrun, turn that into a 1C. We could get middle and late round first for a combination of Dvo, Keller, and or Schmaltz and with luck it rises up to a top 1o pick. We could tank, getting us two top 5 picks in two years. That combination of high end draft talent can drive our rebuild better than holding on to Chychrun plus or minus the others.

 

[Mosby]

I’d like Rick Tocchet to explain (coherently) why Michael Bunting didn’t make the team out of camp. It’s not like his 16 games in Tucson this year knocked something loose. This has always been his playing style, and one we have sorely needed over Tocchet’s entire tenure.

 

[Grimes]

I’d like Rick Tocchet to explain (coherently) why Michael Bunting didn’t make the team out of camp. It’s not like his 16 games in Tucson this year knocked something loose. This has always been his playing style, and one we have sorely needed over Tocchet’s entire tenure.

Especially since Chaput and Fasching played plenty over the past couple seasons. Was Buntings first cup of coffee with RT, or was that the very end of Tippet? Scored on his first game against Boston, I believe he played maybe 2 more games but didn't look great iirc.

Edit: Five games in 18-19. 1G.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Stepan landed the 7th overall. Just has to be the right team who had a down year or who was rebuilding and wants to begin competing. Imagine if Detroit loses the lotto and gets the 7thOA. Do you not think they would consider moving it for Dvo, especially with their lack of center depth?

So we’ll build on a reach

 

[Jakey53]

Is he??

There’s been talk here of trading every single player he’s mentioned at one time or another.

Not all at once.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I’d like Rick Tocchet to explain (coherently) why Michael Bunting didn’t make the team out of camp. It’s not like his 16 games in Tucson this year knocked something loose. This has always been his playing style, and one we have sorely needed over Tocchet’s entire tenure.

I’d like that too, like I said earlier, he caught my eye at his first camp and in subsequent camps. I’m not saying he was ready sooner, but it’s a valid question.

edit: He didn’t catch my eye as much in the Tucson games I saw, but only saw 4 or 5 live.
Oddly enough, it could be similar to Hayton, who I thought played well when he was up and by all accounts isn’t showing well in Tucson. Not saying Hayton didn’t have work to do, but I still believe the team was better when he was up.

 

[Jakey53]

I think that we could get a top 5 for sure for Chychrun, turn that into a 1C. We could get middle and late round first for a combination of Dvo, Keller, and or Schmaltz and with luck it rises up to a top 1o pick. We could tank, getting us two top 5 picks in two years. That combination of high end draft talent can drive our rebuild better than holding on to Chychrun plus or minus the others.

Hayton was top 5. Is he a 1C? Time to stop dreaming.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Is he??

There’s been talk here of trading every single player he’s mentioned at one time or another.

Talk is cheap, especially on a forum from those with no skin in the game.

 

[rt]

I’d like Rick Tocchet to explain ...

I wouldn't. I hope I've endured his last explanation. Time for him to go explain stuff in another market for another franchise, please!!!