When Does the USA Surpass Canada as the #1 Hockey Country?

Status
Not open for further replies.

KH1

Registered User
US hockey will surpass Canada when the government builds hockey rinks in urban areas across the country. Right now in the US hockey is more of a suburban sport or a sport for more priveledged kids--inner city kids play football, basketball or baseball more often than not because those sports are cheaper or more accessible.

Until that happens Canada will be the world's #1 hockey country, and I suspect that it will never change.
 

therealdeal

Registered User
Apr 22, 2005
4,605
222
As many people have already stated, probably never, due to cultural, economic, and climatic differences.
 

willie

Registered User
Mar 3, 2002
3,976
0
Visit site
DownFromNJ said:
The US is ten times the size of Canada. It's only a matter of time.

That is specious reasoning at best.

Let's look at a non-hockey example. The country of Canada has more than 10 million people than the state of Texas. Adding in growth projections, that gap will only get bigger in the future. Football in Canada, especially in Quebec, is a rising sport, probably far more than hockey is in the United States. Yet will anyone here suggest - with a straight face - that Canada will soon be producing more (or even as much) football talent as Texas?

Secondly, citing population skews the reality as well. The reality is - at best - the amount of 'hockey-playing states' is roughly equal to Canada in population. And future population growth in Canada will likely outstrip that region's growth as well. You can cite all these untapped hockey markets but the truth is that these regions have more in common with Mexico than Canada when it comes to athletic preferences. And any time they do produce the odd quality hockey player, they will invariably be forced to come up north to further their development.

Population does matter to some degree. And population just might be the biggest reason why Canada will always be better at hockey than - say - Finland who have a similar passion for the game of hockey. But population is still just a small part of the equation. Far more important are infrastructure, coaching, consumer preferences, (ie. Canadians are far more willing to spend a greater portion of their disposable income on hockey than Americans) and having most of your best athletes play the sport.

The U.S. might, someday, surpass Canada - although I think it's far more likely they'll only ever become Canada's relative equals and get no further. (similar to women's hockey) But it wont happen in my lifetime. I still say if any nation will completely overtake Canada in hockey it'll be Russia. But - needless to say - the Russian economy will have to improve by leaps and bounds before that happens. So, again, it wont happen in my lifetime.
 

nomorekids

The original, baby
Feb 28, 2003
33,375
107
Nashville, TN
www.twitter.com
Will USA ever surpass Canada outright? Probably not.

Am I happy that in most years, on most levels, USA Hockey is good enough to compete with, give a good game to, and sometimes even beat Canada...all while being a mostly regional, peripheral sport?

You bet.
 

thomasincanada

Registered User
Mar 7, 2005
1,691
0
London, ON
TK79 said:
First of all get your facts right. The standard of living using 2004 GDP per capita (a common indicator for measuring this):

You're not from the US so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but do you seriously think one dollar measurement, on the CIA website no less, means much about standard of living? Too many factors are missing from a simple dollar figure.

The US is much more of a haves & have-nots country than Canada & Europe and you'd know that if you had more of a chance to visit.
 
Last edited:

Devonator

Registered User
Jan 5, 2003
4,643
2,391
Yeah ThomasinCanada, we just looooveeee the nanny state here in Alberta.....and isn't great how we are taxed to death in Canada too.......too think at one time our standard of living was higher then America's but thanks to socialism we have fallen miserably behind....but hey....we are more equal then Americans.....we are all equally poorer....ain't it great!!! :teach:
 

thomasincanada

Registered User
Mar 7, 2005
1,691
0
London, ON
Devonator said:
Yeah ThomasinCanada, we just looooveeee the nanny state here in Alberta.....and isn't great how we are taxed to death in Canada too.......too think at one time our standard of living was higher then America's but thanks to socialism we have fallen miserably behind....but hey....we are more equal then Americans.....we are all equally poorer....ain't it great!!! :teach:

Go visit a poor area in a major city in the US and you might not be sitting around whining like a little girl about overtaxation and such.

Better yet, move there, instead of sitting around here and *****ing that you live in a country that tries to provide health care and feed it's poor at your expense.
 

Hawker14

Registered User
Oct 27, 2004
3,084
0
Devonator said:
Yeah ThomasinCanada, we just looooveeee the nanny state here in Alberta.....and isn't great how we are taxed to death in Canada too.......too think at one time our standard of living was higher then America's but thanks to socialism we have fallen miserably behind....but hey....we are more equal then Americans.....we are all equally poorer....ain't it great!!! :teach:

um, income tax in alberta is comparable to the cheapest u.s. states of florida and texas, while health care is much more inexpensive (and publicly funded).

what exactly are you complaining about ?
 

Namso

Registered User
Aug 25, 2005
4,031
0
Devonator said:
Yeah ThomasinCanada, we just looooveeee the nanny state here in Alberta.....and isn't great how we are taxed to death in Canada too.......too think at one time our standard of living was higher then America's but thanks to socialism we have fallen miserably behind....but hey....we are more equal then Americans.....we are all equally poorer....ain't it great!!! :teach:
hmm...in canada, the difference between the poor and rich is no where near as high as in the US. Health care, security, education for the less fortunate are a lot better in canada.
 

thomasincanada

Registered User
Mar 7, 2005
1,691
0
London, ON
Namso said:
hmm...in canada, the difference between the poor and rich is no where near as high as in the US. Health care, security, education for the less fortunate are a lot better in canada.

Unfortunately for Canada there are a lot of selfish people out there, like this guy, who only care about how much money they can make for themselves and don't give a darn about the less fortunate.
 

Pepper

Registered User
Aug 30, 2004
14,693
269
In Finland, Sweden and Canada much bigger % of the population has the chance to play hockey than in US, mainly because of climate & wealth distribution. On average US has higher GDP but when you see how it's divided between different social classes, you start to understand why starting hockey is so hard for many americans.

Without looking for the actual numbers, I'd say that the top 10% earners in US probably get twice as much (% of total GDP) as top 10% earners in Canada or Northern Europe while the bottom 10% in US probably get only half of that what bottom 10% earners in Canada get.

That is the problem.
 

Zine

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
11,958
1,774
Rostov-on-Don
thomasincanada said:
Unfortunately for Canada there are a lot of selfish people out there, like this guy, who only care about how much money they can make for themselves and don't give a darn about the less fortunate.

He'd love it here in the U.S. then.
 

UvBnDatsyuked

Registered User
Apr 30, 2005
2,186
1
thomasincanada said:
Unfortunately for Canada there are a lot of selfish people out there, like this guy, who only care about how much money they can make for themselves and don't give a darn about the less fortunate.


There is a thing called life skills. You give 10 people $1,000,000 and after a year you will have 3 or 4 that have turned it into $1,200,000 and of course you'll have 3 or 4 that have got nothing at the end of 1 year.

Think of all of this as you do hockey. There are people who are born with some natural abilities. Some naturally fast, some naturally aggressive and hate to say it some naturally dumb. I feel very sorry for the kids who are born to parents who can't tell you the capital of their Province or state. They can tell you who won the last American Idol though.

I want my tax dollars going to the kids so the DON'T turn into their parents. But the sad fact is that Apples don't fall far from trees.
The problem with your statement about "Don't give a darn about the less fortunate" is the quiet secret that everyone is afraid to say. MOST PEOPLE ARE IN THE SITUATION THEY ARE IN BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN DOING.

I work in a place where the least per hour anyone makes is 21.55 an hour U.S. The most people make is 27.95. I work with people who can't make ends meet as far as their finances go and they make a great living. I also work with people who own investment property and know how to budget and invest like it's second nature. How can a person who makes over 20 plus dollars an hour live pay check to pay check and the guy/gal who they work side by side with can make the same money and their little nest egg is quite big. It's called "We are not created equal" Some of us are smarter, some of us are funnier and some of us don't have a lick of common sense.
 

Zine

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
11,958
1,774
Rostov-on-Don
Hockey in the U.S. is primarily played by kids in the suburbs; and primarily only in select areas of the country. Unless this changes, I don't the US overtaking Canada. Plus, hockey takes money to play, but, at its core, it's still a blue-collar sport. This turns off a lot of 'wealthier' Americans who have the means and resources to play.

More than any other country, Canada has the best ratio for success (population base, popularity, funding, economic conditions, climate). Even more important though is that the sport is part of the country's culture.

The only country that could overtake Canada would be Russia if everyone over there had access to equipment, rinks, etc. Hockey's a popular sport there and they certainly have the population base - but, economically, I don't see it happening.
 

KM

Registered User
Feb 6, 2004
210
0
Briefly, on the income levels: The US has the greatest amount of disparity (of the listed and relevant.) So while the average makes it appear as if the average US citizen has a higher standard of living, it's really just a small layer that has a much, much better standard of living than any other comparable group around the globe.
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
15,988
9,554
RedWingFan said:
I work in a place where the least per hour anyone makes is 21.55 an hour U.S. The most people make is 27.95. I work with people who can't make ends meet as far as their finances go and they make a great living. I also work with people who own investment property and know how to budget and invest like it's second nature. How can a person who makes over 20 plus dollars an hour live pay check to pay check and the guy/gal who they work side by side with can make the same money and their little nest egg is quite big. It's called "We are not created equal" Some of us are smarter, some of us are funnier and some of us don't have a lick of common sense.

Frankly, the low end of that range will keep you out of the poor house, the high end of that range will not make you rich unless you have no dependents and live a very frugal life. While I do believe people spend/invest money differently, people's circumstances in life are very different. # of children, parents needing financial support, spousal income, inherited wealth. 28 bucks an hour is about 55K a year unless you want to start looking at doing a ton of OT. No one is getting rich on 55k. I make double that, I have 6 people I provide for not including myself, I can lecture most anyone on the relative merits/weaknesses of different investment strategies, most consider me smart, some even consider me funny, and I live pay cheque to pay cheque (I even know the proper way to spell the word cheque). So what does that make me? I agree, people are not created equal.

As for the subject of the thread, hockey is #1 in Canada, the kids have ample opportunity, and we have a marvelous infrastructure in place to identify hockey talent coast to coast. High end talent plays against high end talent at very young ages. The US doesn't have the critical mass of kids playing hockey to get highly skilled kids competing against one another at a young age to produce the volume of talent that Canada does. I expect that gap to narrow over time, probably in measureable 5 year intervals. The thing that is most interesting about Canada's ability to produce world class talent, is that we could spread our talent around, send 3 teams to Italy, and each team would be one of the favourites in the tourney.
 

MN_Gopher

Registered User
May 2, 2002
3,628
21
Mpls
Visit site
The US will never pass up Canada. For evey gold medal team we field in a tourney Canada could have fielded 3-4 teams that could compete. We will never be that deep. Hopefully we can match them star for star. But in sheer numbers no way. I am a big hockey fan and i am from Minnesota. But i never played the game. I played basketball in the winter. It was cheaper, my friends all played, my mom was not waking up at 3am to take me to practice.

I live in Minneapolis. It is an inner city sport or at least it was. I skated with Joe Dziedic, and the Riddles brothers at local out door rinks. Growing up one of the city schools Edison was the best in the state and made state appearences. Now it is not actually the city of Minneapoils schools goin to state but teams from just across the steet. Jefferson, Holy Angles, Breck, Blake, all scholls that field kids from Minneapolis. There are still 4 out door rinks within 2 miles from my house.
 

futurcorerock

Registered User
Nov 15, 2003
6,831
0
Columbus, OH
Once they figure out a way to reduce the outragteous costs of playing hockey, the USA would own Canada like it does in Basketball, Baseball, Football, etc.
 

willie

Registered User
Mar 3, 2002
3,976
0
Visit site
futurcorerock said:
Once they figure out a way to reduce the outragteous costs of playing hockey, the USA would own Canada like it does in Basketball, Baseball, Football, etc.

Right. The 'outragteous' cost of hockey is the sole reason for Canadian preeminence in hockey. :sarcasm:

And way to tool this thread up guys. :clap: We were having a nice civil discusion and - of course - it had to degenerate into a senseless, rhetoric-filled political spat. :p:

Might as well close it or move it.
 

Default101

Guest
When Does the USA Surpass Canada as the #1 Hockey Country?

A: When hell freezes over

B: When they find a way to make a heated hockey rink :)
 

Fish on The Sand

Untouchable
Feb 28, 2002
60,203
1,904
Canada
Jovanovski = Norris said:
The former Soviet Union consists of Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstanl, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine and Uzbekistan.

The only NHL players added to the current Russia squad are guys like Darius Kasparitus, Ruslan Fedotenko, Evgeny Nabokov, Andrei Kostitsyn and some other guys.
Salei!!!!!!!
 

nomorekids

The original, baby
Feb 28, 2003
33,375
107
Nashville, TN
www.twitter.com
willie said:
Right. The 'outragteous' cost of hockey is the sole reason for Canadian preeminence in hockey. :sarcasm:

And way to tool this thread up guys. :clap: We were having a nice civil discusion and - of course - it had to degenerate into a senseless, rhetoric-filled political spat. :p:

Might as well close it or move it.


I see what you're saying...but for his one comment there...

there've been numerous "the day after never," "when hell freezes over" posts from canadian fans.
 

Slitty

Registered User
Oct 23, 2005
3,875
8
Jovanovski = Norris said:
The former Soviet Union consists of Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstanl, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine and Uzbekistan.

The only NHL players added to the current Russia squad are guys like Darius Kasparitus, Ruslan Fedotenko, Evgeny Nabokov, Andrei Kostitsyn and some other guys.


Nabokov and Kasparitis are Russian in terms of country of representation.

The only current Soviet players that dont play for Russia in the NHL are: Ozolinsh, Salei, Ponikarovsky, Antropov, Kostitsyn, Fedotenko, Kolesnik, Zubrus, and some Latvian guy.. Strasknitch of something.


Anyways: those guys would not have added much to Russia's national team and in the case of ZUbrus play for Russia in World Cups. Unlike soccer, the hockey of the Soviet Union was all Russian.

The Soviet Union was arguably the greatest hockey nation, after some turbulance after its collapse, Russian hockey suffered, but is back on the rise, and I dont see why it cannot reclaim its former position.

The USA has too much on its plate in baseball + American football ect... while Canada mainly concentrates on producing hockey players. A large percentage of Canadians play hockey: thus a large numbers. A small percentage of America's vast population play hockey and the number of hockey players is small. That percentage is miniscule, because if the same percentage played hockey as in Canada, US would be much better than Canada.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->