Speculation: Nylander contract discussion

[Damisoph]

They'll bridge him, will happen just before camp opens.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Would be stunned if they sign him long term. Bridge him then extend when Marleau is off the books. Matthews and Marner are the two you lock up as soon as you can.

 

[Menzinger]

Looking at the Nylander situation I think the Leafs are in much better position with his contract than some people think. For all the dazzling feats of skill we've seen out of him you still need to remember that he's a 20 goal winger playing with one of the best centers in the NHL, who's been in the coach's doghouse on occasion. I see Nylander as a 5 million dollar winger coming out of elc and not a penny more. If he sees himself as an 8x8 guy then he can pretty much rot on the sidelines while Kapanen or Johnsson score 20 goals on Matthew's wing.

And his agent would point out (accurately) that Nylander’s role on the line has been playmaker for Matthews more than as a shooter, so I’m not sure the Leafs are going to get that much of a break on his goal totals (or any break really)

His best contract comparisons remain in the Elhers and Pasta range depending on term

 

[Brobust]

Expect the announcement on the re-signing of Matthews, Marner and Nylander soon

Don't think he'd want to face the Toronto media unless they were close on a deal.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Would be stunned if they sign him long term. Bridge him then extend when Marleau is off the books. Matthews and Marner are the two you lock up as soon as you can.

Why Matthews and Marner only? The difference between Marner and Nylander last year was 15 PP points! Marner's unit was ridiculous as had 27 PP points in total (To be fair, even though JVR/Kadri are great PP guys, Marner was the one running it) vs Nylander/Matthews 12 points. At 5v5, Nylander had 8 more points than Marner.

So if we do bridge Nylander, we'll be screwed when his next contract kicks in. Right-now we could get him for cheaper than whatever Marner would go for because of how last season played out, but next season when the Matthews/Nylander PP unit actually gets points he'll be getting a significant raise.

Nylander is a lot like Backstrom. Their primary-assist totals will always be incredible, while the spotlight on their linemate instead (Matthews/Ovechkin)

 

[Nithoniniel]

Why Matthews and Marner only? The difference between Marner and Nylander last year was 15 PP points! Marner's unit was ridiculous as had 27 PP points in total (To be fair, even though JVR/Kadri are great PP guys, Marner was the one running it) vs Nylander/Matthews 12 points.

27 PP points was also what Willy had in his rookie season. Just adding to your point here.

Marner gets a ton of credit for his surge in the second half of the season. Most of that surge took place at the PP. Marner's season at the PP was absolutely great, but not quite as good as Nylander in his rookie season. Willy was actually the best primary point producer per 60 in the league, among regulars. His share of primary points for the unit was bigger than Marner, since he and Matthews was that PP while Marner ran a PP unit that was good all around.

As always, not trying to diminish Marner in the slightest, just pointing out that Willy still compares very well. He's a terrific, terrific talent, and we should celebrate that rather than try to tear him down because he had a rough 4 games against the best shutdown unit in the league, and got intimidated by the most intimidating player in hockey.

 

[egd27]

If were Nylander i would go to another team if i could. He is best as a center .

So you would basically put yourself above your team and teammates? I would happily let you go.

 

[Nithoniniel]

So you would basically put yourself above your team and teammates? I would happily let you go.

Yeah that's an absurd argument.

Very few players are going to make that big of a deal out of position, especially when they are still playing in a position they are very comfortable with. Willy is going to get paid here, he is going to have a chance to get success here, and he's going to play with great players here. He's not going to throw all that away because he'd also rather be a center.

 

[Notsince67]

English is not my first language so please explain. Do you belive he has more to offer as winger then a center? To this team right now yes.. but as player no. In my opinion.

And i dont know if Nylander himself demands be a center.

Babcock has always loved centers playing wing. Marner & Marleau can play as well

 

[DarkKnight]

27 PP points was also what Willy had in his rookie season. Just adding to your point here.

Marner gets a ton of credit for his surge in the second half of the season. Most of that surge took place at the PP. Marner's season at the PP was absolutely great, but not quite as good as Nylander in his rookie season. Willy was actually the best primary point producer per 60 in the league, among regulars. His share of primary points for the unit was bigger than Marner, since he and Matthews was that PP while Marner ran a PP unit that was good all around.

As always, not trying to diminish Marner in the slightest, just pointing out that Willy still compares very well. He's a terrific, terrific talent, and we should celebrate that rather than try to tear him down because he had a rough 4 games against the best shutdown unit in the league, and got intimidated by the most intimidating player in hockey.

Marner was pretty darn good in his rookie year too, which you always conveniently fail to mention, just his little 50 game hot steak and playoffs last year. Both guys hit a rough spot last year. I’ll tell you sure as shit if Marner was riding shotgun with Matthews, this PP specialist bs would evaporate. You argue that we need to see more to conclude Marner is the real deal, yet you just blow sunshine up Willie’s ass, which is funny because amongst the pro analysis I’ve read and heard, the scout stuff, people feel Marner may be the surer bet, hence the salary discrepancy assumptions.

Nylander had an amazing second half in 2017, and was a stud against Washington, amazing at the Worlds, look poised to make the next step major this year (I sure thought so). It didn’t happen, he was lost at times, seemed to lose confidence in his world class shot, and played the margins for long periods. That said, he played great at times as well, and I still see all star material, a high high ceiling if he puts it all together. Comes down to consistent desire for me, let’s see how far he can take it...

The “but” crowd around Marner’s accomplishments, that’s fine, I’ll just stick with my line when he started slow this year, “keep talking, he will make a fool out of his detractors” . See you next year!

 

[Nithoniniel]

Marner was pretty darn good in his rookie year too, which you always conveniently fail to mention

What? I've mentioned that plenty of times. My core argument has always been that if you include both years, and you should, pretty much every difference between them starts to even out. I'm not trying to ignore anything, instead I've always tried to show the whole thing. And highlighting things that tend to get forgotten.

I’ll tell you sure as **** if Marner was riding shotgun with Matthews, this PP specialist bs would evaporate.

I haven't said he's a PP specialist. I don't think he's a PP specialist. Stop making stuff up.

I did say that his surge in the second half of the season was mostly on the PP, and that's simply how it is. He was good at ES too, but he tore the league apart on the PP in the second half. So since that's where he showed such a supreme impact, I wanted to highlight how Nylander has done that too since people keep considering him a much inferior prospect.

You argue that we need to see more to conclude Marner is the real deal

No, I have never said this either. I've never even been close to saying something like that. Again making stuff up. What I have said is that I prefer Marner, I think he's got an edge because he's younger and has peaked higher. I've also said that I don't think Willy is far behind.

yet you just blow sunshine up Willie’s ass

If you mean showing statistics to dispel some misconceptions, sure.

All I've argued for has been based on hard facts, not taking any shortcuts or ignoring any parts of the sample size.

which is funny because amongst the pro analysis I’ve read and heard, the scout stuff, people feel Marner may be the surer bet, hence the salary discrepancy assumptions.

You talk with a lot of scouts, huh?

I don't care for appeals to authority. Bring a solid argument and I'll listen, but I'm not going to drop every single piece of evidence in favor of what I'm arguing because you refer to some anonymous scouts.

Nylander had an amazing second half in 2017, and was a stud against Washington, amazing at the Worlds, look poised to make the next step major this year (I sure thought so). It didn’t happen, he was lost at times, seemed to lose confidence in his world class shot, and played the margins for long periods. That said, he played great at times as well, and I still see all star material, a high high ceiling if he puts it all together.

Completely agree.

The “but” crowd around Marner’s accomplishments, that’s fine, I’ll just stick with my line when he started slow this year, “keep talking, he will make a fool out of his detractors” . See you next year!

There is no 'but' crowd around Marner's accomplishments. There have been about Willy's, and that's what is being addressed. The two of them have overall been extremely close statistically, Marner gets all the credit that he deserves but some keep finding reasons to ignore what Willy has done.

 

[PromisedLand]

He could very well play C this year in Kadri's spot. I can see Kadri and JT playing on the same line. They had a special kind of chemistry back in Jr. A line of Kadri-JT-Marner would be both offensive and Defensive Juggernauts!

so what you are saying is:

Kadri-Tavares-Marner
Marleau-Matthews-Kapanen
Johnsson-Nylander-Hyman
Leivo-Lindholm-Brown

I can live with that

 

[LeafingTheWay]

I love Marner and Nylander both equally, just find that Nylander is not appreciated equally by the rest of the fanbase.

The past two years, the arguments for each player have been 'Plays with Matthew's but plays harder competiton' for Nylander and 'Doesn't get to play with Matthew's but gets easier usage'. It'll be interesting to see how they progress next year given that they BOTH get an elite C to play with and probably face similar competition.

 

[DarkKnight]

What? I've mentioned that plenty of times. My core argument has always been that if you include both years, and you should, pretty much every difference between them starts to even out. I'm not trying to ignore anything, instead I've always tried to show the whole thing. And highlighting things that tend to get forgotten.


I haven't said he's a PP specialist. I don't think he's a PP specialist. Stop making stuff up.

I did say that his surge in the second half of the season was mostly on the PP, and that's simply how it is. He was good at ES too, but he tore the league apart on the PP in the second half. So since that's where he showed such a supreme impact, I wanted to highlight how Nylander has done that too since people keep considering him a much inferior prospect.


No, I have never said this either. I've never even been close to saying something like that. Again making stuff up. What I have said is that I prefer Marner, I think he's got an edge because he's younger and has peaked higher. I've also said that I don't think Willy is far behind.


If you mean showing statistics to dispel some misconceptions, sure.

All I've argued for has been based on hard facts, not taking any shortcuts or ignoring any parts of the sample size.


You talk with a lot of scouts, huh?

I don't care for appeals to authority. Bring a solid argument and I'll listen, but I'm not going to drop every single piece of evidence in favor of what I'm arguing because you refer to some anonymous scouts.


Completely agree.


There is no 'but' crowd around Marner's accomplishments. There have been about Willy's, and that's what is being addressed. The two of them have overall been extremely close statistically, Marner gets all the credit that he deserves but some keep finding reasons to ignore what Willy has done.

Good rebuttal.

Some ignore what Willie has done, some take shots at Mitch. For clarification, the scout reference is just what we hear reported around the league, which does translate into a very real sense Marner ends up getting more...which to me is the most concrete proof available, cuts through opinion.

At this moment in time, I have Marner slightly ahead of Nylander, if you asked me at the beginning of last year my opinion was more nuanced. I don't have a horse in any competition, but I'm also grading what I see. Things can change, Willie has incredible final product potential, I'm cheering for him to reach it. And I love Marner to death, obviously.

 

[Torontonian]

Aug 17th @ 3pm

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

A Nylander bridge would be worst than a Subban bridge ... Lock this man up for 7-8 years.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

A Nylander bridge would be worst than a Subban bridge ... Lock this man up for 7-8 years.

But maybe Nylander doesn't want a long term contract. Trouba just wants a bridge so he can be a UFA sooner. Nylander just might be going that route too.
In so many posts, folks seem to think the team has the absolute control over the length of term. The player has control also.

 

[diceman934]

But maybe Nylander doesn't want a long term contract. Trouba just wants a bridge so he can be a UFA sooner. Nylander just might be going that route too.
In so many posts, folks seem to think the team has the absolute control over the length of term. The player has control also.

Right now the Leafs have all the control and will likely Bridge him so that they can see if he ups his compete level a lot. This gives the Leafs time to assess his value to the team moving forward. I think this is good asset management on the Leafs part as points are one thing but competing hard for all pucks when the chips are on the line is a whole different ball of wax. I am very hopeful that Willy will follow the Leaf of Kadri and JT as well as Marleau who understand that to win in the playoffs takes a lot more then skill.

 

[ZEBROA]

Yeah that's an absurd argument.

Very few players are going to make that big of a deal out of position, especially when they are still playing in a position they are very comfortable with. Willy is going to get paid here, he is going to have a chance to get success here, and he's going to play with great players here. He's not going to throw all that away because he'd also rather be a center.

Just so enoying seing one of the most promesing swedish centers not being developed as one. That suck . As a C i belive he would truly be the best he could as a player. So no he wont throw his current place away. He rather be a wingman on this team that he know is realy good, then the pilot on on another. Its easy and safe. He might get som pilot dutys here and there and maby thats fine for him.

If this is equally true with Marner that suck too . If Marner would be much better as a player at C then its a waste of talent for him being a winger. Thats true for every player.

Use the players were they can give you there fullest potential or trade with someone who can. Thats the best for the team and for the players .

 

[Nithoniniel]

Just so enoying seing one of the most promesing swedish centers not being developed as one. That suck . As a C i belive he would truly be the best he could as a player. So no he wont throw his current place away. He rather be a wingman on this team that he know is realy good, then the pilot on on another. Its easy and safe. He might get som pilot dutys here and there and maby thats fine for him.

If this is equally true with Marner that suck too . If Marner would be much better as a player at C then its a waste of talent for him being a winger. Thats true for every player.

Use the players were they can give you there fullest potential or trade with someone who can. Thats the best for the team and for the players .

Yeah, hockey doesn't work like what you describe. A winger can drive his line perfectly well.

And the best for the team is to build the best possible team, not nitpick over a minor factor such as preferred positions of their players. You're taking a small issue and taking it into the extreme.

 

[Tavares to Marner]

Man this whole PP vs ES is a joke

their both points/goals that give us the lead, if their play puts our team in front the hell cares how it's done

 

[TML1967]

But maybe Nylander doesn't want a long term contract. Trouba just wants a bridge so he can be a UFA sooner. Nylander just might be going that route too.
In so many posts, folks seem to think the team has the absolute control over the length of term. The player has control also.

True.
BUT if Nylander wants shirt term, you really put the screws to him to show why he should sign long term.
I.e. offer 4 million per for 3 years or 7x7.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

But maybe Nylander doesn't want a long term contract. Trouba just wants a bridge so he can be a UFA sooner. Nylander just might be going that route too.
In so many posts, folks seem to think the team has the absolute control over the length of term. The player has control also.

True Nylander may want a bridge. I'm not really voicing my opinion in regards to what Nylander wants. Just look through the thread, tons of posters want to bridge him. Bad idea. If Nylander is willing to sign long term you do it.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Man this whole PP vs ES is a joke

their both points/goals that give us the lead, if their play puts our team in front the hell cares how it's done

I think in regards to Nylander, we've seen him be a PP beast. while it's only been two seasons so we can't say which PP Nylander is the real one, however for the sake of the argument lets just say Nylander is somewhere in the middle of his two seasons at 19 PP points. He would have had a 68 points season, 1 point less than Marner.

Like I said They are both so similar. We have 4 legit 1st line players and Kadri is a top echelon 2nd liner. an embarrassment of riches.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

True.
BUT if Nylander wants shirt term, you really put the screws to him to show why he should sign long term.
I.e. offer 4 million per for 3 years or 7x7.

Then Nylander doesn't sign that contract. I'm not sure if he eligible for an offer sheet this year. But any team would offer sheet more than 4m. And he eligible for arbitration next year, so lowballing a three year deal doesn't work either