When did Teams start Air-travel?
- Thread starter The Panther
- Start date
BayStreetBully
Registered User
Probably post expansion, to fly out to California.
Tim Horton was pranking his St. Mike's juniors Dave Keon, Frank Mahovlich and Dick Duff on the train to Chicago, so they used train at least until the 60's. Chicago-Montreal is farther, but I'd imagine scheduling would have made them play on Detroit or Toronto along the way.
Tim Horton was pranking his St. Mike's juniors Dave Keon, Frank Mahovlich and Dick Duff on the train to Chicago, so they used train at least until the 60's. Chicago-Montreal is farther, but I'd imagine scheduling would have made them play on Detroit or Toronto along the way.
Big Phil
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I am pretty sure that the train was used for most - if not all - of the Original 6 era from 1942-'67. Actually, now that I think about it pretty much from the beginning. Prior to 1942 there was the New York Americans, same distance as the Rangers of course. Then the Montreal Maroons, Ottawa Senators and then teams like the Philadelphia Quakers and Pittsburgh Pirates. In the 1930s there was as much as 10 teams in the NHL, but they were all within respectable train distance. In 1933 the St. Louis Eagles were in the league, so I assume that the schedule had to be pretty flexible for them and for the visiting teams. Only Chicago is close to St. Louis but there is no way they were flying in 1933 in the NHL, even for the one season, so it had to still be the train.
I am not sure exactly when it started. I know for sure it was not any later than 1967-'68 when California and Oakland were added, and then St. Louis again. Come to think of it, Minnesota is a long, long train ride and that would be a flight too. So it started then for sure. I know Gump Worsley had a huge fear of flying and he went to Toe Blake to voice his concern. Toe sent him to the team shrink who advised him to "change occupations." Blake was coach until 1968 while Gump started with the Habs in 1964. There probably was some air travel during this time, just guessing, in preparation for expansion when they had to do it. Plus Montreal was definitely able to afford it. I would guess sometime in the 1960s is when it started in some cases.
I am not sure exactly when it started. I know for sure it was not any later than 1967-'68 when California and Oakland were added, and then St. Louis again. Come to think of it, Minnesota is a long, long train ride and that would be a flight too. So it started then for sure. I know Gump Worsley had a huge fear of flying and he went to Toe Blake to voice his concern. Toe sent him to the team shrink who advised him to "change occupations." Blake was coach until 1968 while Gump started with the Habs in 1964. There probably was some air travel during this time, just guessing, in preparation for expansion when they had to do it. Plus Montreal was definitely able to afford it. I would guess sometime in the 1960s is when it started in some cases.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Scheduling
Not so often. A review of the HSP would have confirmed this. O6 era schedule was basically a Wednesday to Sunday affair with Friday's off. Seems that competeing with the Friday night fights was a no - no.
Toronto enjoyed Wednesdays and Saturdays at home, Thursdays and Sunday on the road.
Montréal enjoyed Thursdays(later switched to Wednesdays for TV purposes) and Saturdays at home, Wednesdays and Sundays on the road. The four US teams basically shared home and away dates Wednesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays with some Tuesday home dates thrown in.Monday games were very scarce.Teams might do the league circuit if one of the two travelling ice shows(Ice Capades or Ice Follies) was booked into the home arena or the circus was in town at the arena.
Canadiens would leave by train immediately after the Saturday night game and arrive in Chicago about an hour before the game. Crossing time zones allowed them to benefit from an extra hour.
Canadiens started flying in the playoffs mid 1960s to Chicago, definitely 1965 finals.
Not so often. A review of the HSP would have confirmed this. O6 era schedule was basically a Wednesday to Sunday affair with Friday's off. Seems that competeing with the Friday night fights was a no - no.
Toronto enjoyed Wednesdays and Saturdays at home, Thursdays and Sunday on the road.
Montréal enjoyed Thursdays(later switched to Wednesdays for TV purposes) and Saturdays at home, Wednesdays and Sundays on the road. The four US teams basically shared home and away dates Wednesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays with some Tuesday home dates thrown in.Monday games were very scarce.Teams might do the league circuit if one of the two travelling ice shows(Ice Capades or Ice Follies) was booked into the home arena or the circus was in town at the arena.
Canadiens would leave by train immediately after the Saturday night game and arrive in Chicago about an hour before the game. Crossing time zones allowed them to benefit from an extra hour.
Canadiens started flying in the playoffs mid 1960s to Chicago, definitely 1965 finals.
BayStreetBully
Registered User
I didn't know that, thanks!
Did Montreal also fly to Detroit in 1966 and Toronto for the 1967 playoffs?
BayStreetBully
Registered User
I remember some article in the late 90's making it a big deal that the Ilitches provided their team a private plane, and that it gave them an advantage on the ice.
Other questions I have on the topic:
1) do most teams now have a private plane?
2) when did teams begin flying for short distance, like from Fort Lauderdale to Tampa?
Canadiens1958
Registered User
1966 and 1967
No, those were train trips at that time.
One of the factors in the sixties was the convenience of downtown to downtown train travel.
Saturday night, especially the Canadiens or Leafs or visiting teams could catch the train - would be held if the game ran long, minutes from the Forum or MLG and ride the overnight train arriving in Chicago, Detroit, New York, Boston near or at the arena where they were playing. No hotel expenses, getting to and from airports where flights had to leave in a timely fashion.
No, those were train trips at that time.
One of the factors in the sixties was the convenience of downtown to downtown train travel.
Saturday night, especially the Canadiens or Leafs or visiting teams could catch the train - would be held if the game ran long, minutes from the Forum or MLG and ride the overnight train arriving in Chicago, Detroit, New York, Boston near or at the arena where they were playing. No hotel expenses, getting to and from airports where flights had to leave in a timely fashion.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Plane Travel
Two basic factors. Arenas moving from the downtown core - close to train stations and the decline of train travel/rail service.
Fair number of short hop bus trips if reliable service is available.
Two basic factors. Arenas moving from the downtown core - close to train stations and the decline of train travel/rail service.
Fair number of short hop bus trips if reliable service is available.
BayStreetBully
Registered User
Thanks. I asked because I'm assuming that Montreal wanted every advantage over Chicago for the 1965 playoffs, but I wondered at what point would distance become "not worth it" to fly. Toronto seems close enough to travel by train in 1967 even with the option of a plane, and Detroit is iffy because it's smack dab in the middle between Chicago and Toronto.
Playoffs aside- Baseballers were flying since at least 1958, but NHL teams originally struck me as not caring enough to fly its players until it absolutely had to- 1967.
Killion
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1935
... by the late 50's some teams were flying sporadically and by the mid-60's all of them were.... the first however: www.greatesthockeylegends.com/2008/10/famous-firsts-first-nhl-team-to-travel.html
... by the late 50's some teams were flying sporadically and by the mid-60's all of them were.... the first however: www.greatesthockeylegends.com/2008/10/famous-firsts-first-nhl-team-to-travel.html
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
Funny story from the VERY early days of commercial flight in the PCHA:
During the 1921 season, the Seattle Metropolians were due to play a game in Victoria, which is across the Puget Sound on Vancouver Island. In those days, the way to get from Seattle to Victoria was by a long-ish ferry trip.
Just as the Mets were walking up the gangplank to board the Victoria ferry, it dawned on team manager Pete Muldoon that he had left winger Jim Riley's skates sitting on his desk in his office. Riley was having a big season, so leaving him on the sideline wasn't an option. And his nickname was "Big Jim" for a reason... his feet wouldn't fit in anybody else's skates.
Without saying a word to the team about why he was leaving, Muldoon turned around and ran back down to the street, hailed a cab, and sped off to retrieve the skates.
Now, put yourself in the mindset of someone in 1921. If you leave somebody at the ferry terminal, that's it. End of story, see ya later. Alternate transportation to an island city was non-existent. So seeing your team manager run away and jump in a taxi as the ferry was getting ready to leave... the players had to have been mystified.
Muldoon's taxi arrived back at the port just in time to see the ferry churning across the waterway, headed for Victoria. But Muldoon was a desperate man, and he happened to see a new-fangled seaplane docked nearby. This before commercial seaplane service had been conceived as an industry, so at most this would have been some sort of irregular plane-for-hire. Muldoon found the pilot, apparently came up with payment, and flew to Victoria ahead of the ferry.
So, again putting yourself in the mindset of 1921, you can only imagine the bewildered reaction of the players when they stepped off the ferry in Victoria, and there was Muldoon standing at the dock... casually waiting for them to arrive, Big Jim's skates in hand.
During the 1921 season, the Seattle Metropolians were due to play a game in Victoria, which is across the Puget Sound on Vancouver Island. In those days, the way to get from Seattle to Victoria was by a long-ish ferry trip.
Just as the Mets were walking up the gangplank to board the Victoria ferry, it dawned on team manager Pete Muldoon that he had left winger Jim Riley's skates sitting on his desk in his office. Riley was having a big season, so leaving him on the sideline wasn't an option. And his nickname was "Big Jim" for a reason... his feet wouldn't fit in anybody else's skates.
Without saying a word to the team about why he was leaving, Muldoon turned around and ran back down to the street, hailed a cab, and sped off to retrieve the skates.
Now, put yourself in the mindset of someone in 1921. If you leave somebody at the ferry terminal, that's it. End of story, see ya later. Alternate transportation to an island city was non-existent. So seeing your team manager run away and jump in a taxi as the ferry was getting ready to leave... the players had to have been mystified.
Muldoon's taxi arrived back at the port just in time to see the ferry churning across the waterway, headed for Victoria. But Muldoon was a desperate man, and he happened to see a new-fangled seaplane docked nearby. This before commercial seaplane service had been conceived as an industry, so at most this would have been some sort of irregular plane-for-hire. Muldoon found the pilot, apparently came up with payment, and flew to Victoria ahead of the ferry.
So, again putting yourself in the mindset of 1921, you can only imagine the bewildered reaction of the players when they stepped off the ferry in Victoria, and there was Muldoon standing at the dock... casually waiting for them to arrive, Big Jim's skates in hand.
BayStreetBully
Registered User
Bill Gadsby said they started flying around 1956 or 1957 (around 29:00). Video discusses train travel from around 26:00-32:00.
Was just about to post the exact same article.
Until I read it. I didn't know the Rangers were the first NHL team to do so, even if it wasn't a permanent thing.
The Bruins started flying in the early 60's when US railroads started to curtail long distance train service.
The Boston-Montreal train at the end was simply a one car Buddliner which was not suitable for a team.
Getting from Toronto on a Saturday to Boston on a Sunday became a problem as reliable connections in Buffalo and Albany vanished.
The Boston-Montreal train at the end was simply a one car Buddliner which was not suitable for a team.
Getting from Toronto on a Saturday to Boston on a Sunday became a problem as reliable connections in Buffalo and Albany vanished.
Killion
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... I see... and so what arrangements did a Young Fenway make to get from Bahstin to Saratoga & Buffalo Raceways?... back in the day like.... hire a car & driver?... Charter your own flight?
... I see... and so what arrangements did a Young Fenway make to get from Bahstin to Saratoga & Buffalo Raceways?... back in the day like.... hire a car & driver?... Charter your own flight?
Once did Cambridge to Depew in 5 hours 40 minutes
The Panther
Registered User
Thinking about the logistics of travel then really gives me a new respect for road winners in those days. About eight years ago, I took a train from New York City to Toronto, and it was BLOODY SLOW. I think it took, like, 10-11 hours or something with delays, border-control, and whatnot (maybe 5.5 or 6 hours to drive?). When I arrived at Union Station, the last thing I could possibly have done was go straight to Maple Leaf Gardens and play hockey....
Was just looking at the Bruins 1957-58 schedule.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/BOS/1958_games.html
On November 23 they played a Saturday afternoon game against Montreal at 3 PM on CBS and then played in Chicago the next night. That is a 22 hour train trip. Granted they would have picked up an hour heading west and it was a 7:30 PM start in Chicago but that is tight and in November snow could be a factor on that route.
Boston-Chicago was the longest train trip and then as it is today very slow as it takes almost 5 hours to go from Boston to Albany which is only 177 miles.
Later that season they would play in Chicago on February 23 and then sit in a hotel until March 1 when they played the Hawks again.
Killion
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...Later that season they would play in Chicago on February 23 and then sit in a hotel until March 1 when they played the Hawks again.
... Im guessing you know well the story of Eddie Shore's Legendary Midnight Drive from Boston to Montreal in January 1929 but for others who have not.... missed the 11:30pm train carrying the Bruins for the overnight & most of the next days trip to Montreal for a game against the Maroons by a whisker... and in a blizzard, white out conditions hires a car & driver to make the 500+km (about 350 miles) journey... the driver after about an hour telling Eddie "thats it, were turning back"... no window defroster, no tire chains, coiuldnt see 3' past the hood of the car even if you rolled the window down & leaned out... and Shore having none of it... takes over the wheel himself... manages to find a service station open along the way & buys some chains.... the windshield on the car was was split screen, so he removed the top 1/2 altogether, facing the sub zero whiteout conditions bare faced at about 60 miles per hour, just as fast as the jalopies of those days could go and this long before decent paved roads & highways.... took a break mid morning, let the driver carry on, takes a cat nap, driver puts the car in a ditch.... Eddie.... he treks couple miles over frozen tundra, luckily stumbled upon a farmhouse before turning into a human popsicle.... hires a team of horses, gets the car pulled out.... finally arrives in Montreal at 5:30pm... checks into the hotel, has a steak and a nap... Shows up on time but Man, is he a mess.... Fingers, both hands frozen into claws from all that white knuckle driving in gripping the wheel with no heat, totally exposed with most of the windshield gone.... and his face.... lips, cheeks & ears, badly frostbitten, puffed up to 3X's their normal size.... eyes bloodshot... equilibrium shot ta Hell, sober but staggering, like after a long & rough ocean journey.... Art Ross wasnt going to let him play but Eddie insisted..... went on to score the game winner that night.... And thats just the way it was back then. Travel by train with sleeper berths? That was a luxury. Fabulous experience. Almost no one complained about it, a "perk" actually. Alternative was a bus and good luck with that in the NE & Midwest during the winter months....
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Hockey Outsider
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I've heard that story before. According to the legend, Shore played 58 minutes that night - missing only two minutes when he took a penalty. I can't recall the source for this (I'm sure it's in a book I have, but I can't remember which one).
I can tell you that as a child back in 1961 when my parents decided to vacation in Quebec the drive even in the summer was not pleasant in Vermont. We did it in one day from Boston but it was a hard drive for my dad.
In 1929 during a blizzard
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Game Details
Bruins won the game against the Maroons 1-0 with Shore scoring the only goal. Shore took two minor penalties. Details from The Gazette, January 4, 1929 with no mention of the drive from Boston:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hXAtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=K4wFAAAAIBAJ&hl=fr&pg=6533,581061
First heard the story in the second half of the fifties from youth hockey coaches at the community center.
Bruins won the game against the Maroons 1-0 with Shore scoring the only goal. Shore took two minor penalties. Details from The Gazette, January 4, 1929 with no mention of the drive from Boston:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hXAtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=K4wFAAAAIBAJ&hl=fr&pg=6533,581061
First heard the story in the second half of the fifties from youth hockey coaches at the community center.
