When did Datsyuk get demoted to the 4th line?

[Adityase]

Someone mentioned an interesting point on Reddit yesterday that basically said that Babs has setup Datsyuk's line as a shutdown line to the best offensive lines of the opposing team.


"Babcocks post game pretty much sums up why cleary and abby are with datsyuk despite their lack of points. He said he is using datsyuks like as a shutdown line against top lines neutralizing the oppositions best players. He is not relying on it for offense, he is relying on it to make sure other teams dont score. That sounds pretty Datsyukian to me. Maybe that is why the wings GA has been around 1.2 over the last 7 or 8 games and the other teams top guys cant manage to score on us. If you drag your mind away from the offense (only 1/2 of hockey) and look at the defense you see that a abby-pav-cleary line is an incredibly strong defensive unit.

Perhaps Babcock had a chat with Datsyuk in the last month about what its going to take to win games. Being the player that Datsyuk has been for the last 11+ years im sure he was more than willing to sacrifice the points to make sure they win games. Instead of playing with Tatar who would produce more points than abby/cleary but will give up more defensively."


Pretty good point, I'd say. Points are great from shutdown units, but if we can keep their team from scoring, while getting production from a good 1st and 3rd line...

I like to believe I'm not one of the hotheaded type that of course are prone to posting on forums, but I definitely came here to post out of anger until I read this. I am still upset that Datsyuk is being neutralized by his own useless wingers... but if it's truly neutralizing the opposition...

I just have to believe Datsyuk is a bit frustrated. Last night in the latter half of the game, after gaining the zone, he would peel back and try to pass to a pinching d-man, taking over at the blueline. He knows the d-men are more likely to score than Cleary and Abby and the d-man knows Dats will take over his role in the event of a breakout. To me, that says Dats, even if he's okay with this shutdown role... would like to see his line get some points.

Then again, I am also not someone who thinks Babs or Holland should be fired just because I don't understand what they're truly doing or what their options are. For instance, I wonder if Franzen's newly passionate play with a focus not only on getting his shots but also defense (how about that head first block attempt in the crease!) is in part because that Dats line is just completely useless.

I can understand not just throwing Tatar on Dats wing since I wouldn't want to split up the Miller, Andersson, Tatar line. If only Andersson could play on Dats wing... he could be another Franzen in the making. I love Tatar and know he's going to be a scoring winger here, but I think people seriously underestimate Andersson. His hockey sense is astounding. He cycles well, uses his big body, has soft hands when passing and is really making a huge impression on me.

Anyway, less mad than before I read the previous post... but still, something needs to be done.

I think we need to get rid of Abby (completely useless) or Cleary (but I'm okay with Cleary on the scoring line wing as long as he's just the net front/screener guy). Dats with Cleary and Sammy would even be acceptable to me. Abby is just garbage.

 

[SortaExtremist]

Second period, Datsyuk sends a pass across to cleary and all cleary had to was redirect it to an open side of the net and Fu*****FCRFDFD missed. Trying is not getting it done.

 

[mindfly]

I wonder if they're actually having conversations with Pavel... "Hey pavel, how do you really feel about playing with these two? Do you enjoy it? Would you prefer someone else? What do you personally think"?

 

[SoupGuru]

Second period, Datsyuk sends a pass across to cleary and all cleary had to was redirect it to an open side of the net and Fu*****FCRFDFD missed. Trying is not getting it done.

I'm pretty sure the defender tipped that pass on the way through.

 

[Vladdy84]

I'm pretty sure the defender tipped that pass on the way through.

I'm pretty sure you own home and away Dan Cleary jerseys.

 

[SoupGuru]

I'm pretty sure you own home and away Dan Cleary jerseys.

What the **** does this even mean?

 

[Frk It]

Second period, Datsyuk sends a pass across to cleary and all cleary had to was redirect it to an open side of the net and Fu*****FCRFDFD missed. Trying is not getting it done.

His hand-eye coordination and hands around the net are the worst on this team bar-none. Don't know how many times I watch him fan on shots or fail to elevate pucks in front of the net. It's an absolute joke. If I'm Datsyuk im taking it to the net myself everytime I come in the zone.

 

[Brick Top]

I know that some here have explained the whole "using Datsyuk with Cleary and Abby as a shut down unit" line of thinking. I still think it's a major mistake to take the team's best offensive player and ask him to be Guy Carbonneau in his Dallas Stars days.

Even if D's line doesn't allow any GA, it puts too much pressure on an inconsistent top line and a 3rd line with Eaves and 2 rookies to carry the scoring load. I don't think this team is talented enough to afford to shelve Datsyuk's ES offensive talents, as their margin for error is pretty slim given the other offensive guys on the team.

As a fan, I hope that Datsyuk is chalking his mismanaged line to the injury situation and hoping it changes soon, but I wouldn't blame him if in the back of his mind he's thinking "this is Babs' answer for dealing with injuries? **** this, I'll go play in my home country and score in the KHL after next season."

 

[Vladdy84]

I know that some here have explained the whole "using Datsyuk with Cleary and Abby as a shut down unit" line of thinking. I still think it's a major mistake to take the team's best offensive player and ask him to be Guy Carbonneau in his Dallas Stars days.

Even if D's line doesn't allow any GA, it puts too much pressure on an inconsistent top line and a 3rd line with Eaves and 2 rookies to carry the scoring load. I don't think this team is talented enough to afford to shelve Datsyuk's ES offensive talents, as their margin for error is pretty slim given the other offensive guys on the team.

As a fan, I hope that Datsyuk is chalking his mismanaged line to the injury situation and hoping it changes soon, but I wouldn't blame him if in the back of his mind he's thinking "this is Babs' answer for dealing with injuries? **** this, I'll go play in my home country and score in the KHL after next season."

Apologists. It's so insulting to Pavel. He's done so much for this organization and given us fans so much. Why should teams even have to worry about Datsyuk now? His own linemates do a good enough job of neutralizing him.

Oh and I just saw this was Bobrovsky's first shutout on CBC.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Datsyuk has been a major plus player most of his career. What's his plus/minus with this line?

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Datsyuk has been a major plus player most of his career. What's his plus/minus with this line?

Even. Which is actually pretty remarkable considering who he's playing against and who his linemates have been.

He was +8 before they became his linemates.

So like many of us have stated, all that Babcock has done with this line is take away Datsyuk's offensive game. And when you're team struggles to find the back of the net, there's no apparent logic behind it.

And if anybody thinks that Datsyuk's line would be worse defensively without Abdelkader and Cleary, they clearly haven't been watching Detroit play hockey for the past handful of years.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Someone mentioned an interesting point on Reddit yesterday that basically said that Babs has setup Datsyuk's line as a shutdown line to the best offensive lines of the opposing team.


"Babcocks post game pretty much sums up why cleary and abby are with datsyuk despite their lack of points. He said he is using datsyuks like as a shutdown line against top lines neutralizing the oppositions best players. He is not relying on it for offense, he is relying on it to make sure other teams dont score. That sounds pretty Datsyukian to me. Maybe that is why the wings GA has been around 1.2 over the last 7 or 8 games and the other teams top guys cant manage to score on us. If you drag your mind away from the offense (only 1/2 of hockey) and look at the defense you see that a abby-pav-cleary line is an incredibly strong defensive unit.

Perhaps Babcock had a chat with Datsyuk in the last month about what its going to take to win games. Being the player that Datsyuk has been for the last 11+ years im sure he was more than willing to sacrifice the points to make sure they win games. Instead of playing with Tatar who would produce more points than abby/cleary but will give up more defensively."


Pretty good point, I'd say. Points are great from shutdown units, but if we can keep their team from scoring, while getting production from a good 1st and 3rd line...

Imo this 'kinda' makes sense...for a little bit... then you go "WTF" and realize it's complete BS.

Not only have Datsyuk's line been on the defense much, much, more than it usually is because of Cleary and Abby's inability to keep possession of the puck, it also hasn't produced anywhere near what it usually does.

There is no way you couldn't use Franzen/Andersson or even Tatar on Datsyuk's wing and still get great defense from the line, and also get some offense. Datsyuk has played with Holmstrom and Bertuzzi and the line still hasn't been a defensive liability and it has produced offensively.

If this is the way Babcock is thinking I honestly think the 'fire Babcock' people aren't crazy. We have a genius on our team, a virtuoso, one of the most gifted players of all time... and Babcock is putting two deadweights around his feet. Datsyuk is the best two-way forward in the league. TWO-WAY. You don't make him into a pure shutdown player.

 

[Roy S]

They've been together since the Nashville game. He's got 1 goal, 7 assists and is +2 in 10 games. 1 goal on his 27 shots, when he historically has a career 14.4% shooting percentage, also hurts his stat line and the +- rating.

 

[Vladdy84]

If this is the way Babcock is thinking I honestly think the 'fire Babcock' people aren't crazy. We have a genius on our team, a virtuoso, one of the most gifted players of all time... and Babcock is putting two deadweights around his feet. Datsyuk is the best two-way forward in the league. TWO-WAY. You don't make him into a pure shutdown player.

This. But don't kid yourself. Were just idiots on a message board that know nothing about hockey. Better leave it up to the guy that signed Mule over Hossa, signed Sammy and the
genius that keeps playing Cleary on the PP,PK and critical situations.

 

[Frk It]

This. But don't kid yourself. Were just idiots on a message board that know nothing about hockey. Better leave it up to the guy that signed Mule over Hossa, signed Sammy and the
genius that keeps playing Cleary on the PP,PK and critical situations.

Babcock didn't sign Mule over Hossa, or sign Sammy.

 

[Vladdy84]

Babcock didn't sign Mule over Hossa, or sign Sammy.

I was talking about both Kenny and Babcock.

 

[Frk It]

I was talking about both Kenny and Babcock.

Okay wasn't sure just bc what you quoted only mentioned Babcock.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

They've been together since the Nashville game. He's got 1 goal, 7 assists and is +2 in 10 games. 1 goal on his 27 shots, when he historically has a career 14.4% shooting percentage, also hurts his stat line and the +- rating.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that first Nashville game. That game, however, was Datsyuk of the 2011 postseason. He had two points in that game and was a +2 (the end to end goal and the shorthanded takeaway pass to Cleary all alone in front.)

Since that first game where he went nuts, he's even and has 4 even strength assists. 3 of them to Kronwall and 1 on Emmerton's goal against Edmonton. So if you're a defenceman or the center coming on the ice for Datsyuk after he gains the zone, you have a better chance of scoring than Cleary or Abdelkader.

 

[Flowah]

BCA: Before Cleary/Abdelkader
ACA: After Cleary/Abdelkader.

Night and day difference. Sorry Pav, don't leave us

 

[RedWinger10]

Is Babcock FU**'N BRAIN DEAD? What does he see in this line? He basically takes Datsyuk out of the game wight this line. SO STUPID!

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

That Datsyuk quote FSD showed was pretty ironic. Considering Dats is the one who's pulling around the piano that is Abdelkader right now.

 

[SortaExtremist]

Its only going to get worse when Sammy gets better and his slow skating ass along with his high and wide shots gets back into the lineup to "support" Datsyuk. The only 3 I'm looking forward to getting back are Bert fil and most importantly Helm.

 

[Hendricks433]

Its only going to get worse when Sammy gets better and his slow skating ass along with his high and wide shots gets back into the lineup to "support" Datsyuk. The only 3 I'm looking forward to getting back are Bert fil and most importantly Helm.

If we can get Bert and Flip back we could do:

Mule, Z, Nose
Flip, Datsyuk, Bert

Which is way better than what we have not. The bad thing is it pushes Cleary, Abby and Sammy when they come back down to the 3rd and 4th lines pushing out our young guys who are playing well. I doubt Bert makes it back though.

 

[Henkka]

If we can get Bert and Flip back we could do:

Mule, Z, Nose
Flip, Datsyuk, Bert

Which is way better than what we have not. The bad thing is it pushes Cleary, Abby and Sammy when they come back down to the 3rd and 4th lines pushing out our young guys who are playing well. I doubt Bert makes it back though.

Mule - Z - Brunner
Flip - Dats - Bert
Cleary - Helm - Sammy
Miller - AKader - Tootoo

This was my summer lineup. Still want to see it. Probably won't happen.

 

[LastWordArmy]

The cries have been heard... Franzen played with Datsyuk. The thing is that Datsyuk manages to set someone up 4/5 times a game for a prime rib chance. The issue here is that Franzen needs to average like 4-5 shots a game to score consistently. His shot is wildly inaccurate at times.