What about Tatar, Anderrson, Nyquist and Emmerton? Lots of young guys who have proved they belong up here but we have Cleary, Sammy, Miller and Abdelkader who are in the way.
When did Datsyuk get demoted to the 4th line?
- Thread starter SortaExtremist
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What about Tatar, Anderrson, Nyquist and Emmerton? Lots of young guys who have proved they belong up here but we have Cleary, Sammy, Miller and Abdelkader who are in the way.
LastWordArmy
Registered User
I would leave Tatar over Cleary. Tatar has proven to be very effective offensively and has a better jump/speed than Cleary. It would give Cleary some rest for the playoffs.
joe89
#5
- Apr 30, 2009
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BinCookin
Registered User
one mention of Bert walking with a cane... and thats it, he is never coming back to hockey
sepster
Gerard Gallant is my Spirit Animal
Well, taking into account the following:
1)Bert himself said that if the lockout were to last the entire year he would most likely be done do to an inability to stay physically prepared at his age
2)He was hospitalized due to pain caused by his latest back injury
3)the Wings are now over half way through this lock-out shortened season and Bert's return is in "no timeline" limbo
It is not that much of a reach to think he is probably done. I mean really, what is the difference in his mind if he misses most of the year due to a lock-out or an injury? I would think that an injury is even worse. That would confirm his fears that he is no longer physically able to play.
1)Bert himself said that if the lockout were to last the entire year he would most likely be done do to an inability to stay physically prepared at his age
2)He was hospitalized due to pain caused by his latest back injury
3)the Wings are now over half way through this lock-out shortened season and Bert's return is in "no timeline" limbo
It is not that much of a reach to think he is probably done. I mean really, what is the difference in his mind if he misses most of the year due to a lock-out or an injury? I would think that an injury is even worse. That would confirm his fears that he is no longer physically able to play.
And this is Holland's CHIEF failure.
it's one thing to swing for Suter and Parise and miss. Only one out of 30 teams can hit that homerun.
But the inability to make room for GOOD up-and-coming prospects so that we can give icetime to washed up veterans -- that is 100 percent on Holland.
That 24 year old Brendan Smith is only now learning the NHL game -- that's on Holland.
Going out and getting Salei when we should have used Kindl -- That's on Holland If you're a coach and you want to win, who are you going to play? The rookie or the vet?
Nyquist in the A? That's on Holland.
Big Poppa Puck
HF's Villain
I having a feeling Bert's done and next year he'll just get the Rathje/Savard/Pronger treatment and remain on IR so we don't have to eat his cap hit.
Seeing as how I made a point to disagree with you on other issues, I will step in on this one and say that I am with you nearly 100%. I would give Holland some slack, in that as long as Lidstrom was still playing, the emphasis had to be put on winning now (then).
Of course that still could have been done by creating some room and roles for some of the young guys.
BinCookin
Registered User
I think what we want will happen, is happening. The team is transitioning (through injuries only?) to the young guys.
Once you see Holland "dump" some of his depth for youth, it will begin.
I wonder sometimes about the intellegence of "letting flip walk"
or letting "hudler walk"
or trading franzen.
I do agree asset management is where i wonder about this team.
Sure we have been getting weaker, sure people have retired, but the time is NOW NOW NOW... to test all these young "crappy" draft picks in our system. Turns out some of them are not bad, and I think MISSING the playoffs could be a good thing for this team (IF holland needs a wake up call).
I would argue youth is more "reliable" than poor veterans at this point, because our team needs some heart. Nyquist/Tatar/Andersson/Kindl/Smith can provide said heart because they are playing for their professional lives! You don't think that kind of jump and enthusiasm rubs off on Zett and Dats???
Just ask Hull about playing with Dats a long time ago. Revitalized his passion.
That is what our team needs... some more passion.
Because I am not seeing it.
I am ok if they TRY and LOSE. I don't mind if Brunner / Tatar / Nyquist turn out to have massive problems with their games, because at least we are trying out the enthused players. The competition for jobs on the team is needed to instill fire in the players already on the team.
I am ok with Losing.
I am not ok with lazy bad efforts... and our team does not look like its working very hard out there.
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Henkka
Registered User
Err.. what really is wrong? Last time I checked, almost all those young guys are playing except Nyquist. Smith, Kindl, Andersson, Tatar, Emmerton, even Lashoff as an extra, Mrazek got some starts.
So what is the exact problem? The kids are playing. As a wise man, Holland didn't want to give a free walk to TOP6 for any kid. You have to earn it, play better than the veteran, or replace the injured veteran and get a part-time duty.
And bringing a kid into organization is not just getting ice-time. It's getting in new daily routines as a NHL pro. Ice-time comes later. People seem not to understand these off-ice things that will belong in career development. Like Chris Kreider, he looked great at last playoffs, now the Rangers are keeping him down, because he needs better conditioning for full season service in NHL. He was great only for a short stint, because he is not ready. Same is happening for Nyquist. After shorter NCAA season he is learning the conditioning for TOP6 role in long AHL-season. They want him to be 100% ready, when he jumps into NHL Top6 role. Tatar looks to be ready after multiple seasons, as well as Andersson. They are up.
And this development doesn't happen in one night just inserting guys in the lineup, it takes seasons. Holland builded this team, that those kids can replace the old veterans, if those veterans don't succeed. Plan A and plan B. Many veterans have collapced and it's the plan B what is happening now. It's just more conservative way to bring these guys in. You don't throw them straight to wolves. You guys with short-term sights just don't see those long-term benefits in Wings future plans.
So what is the exact problem? The kids are playing. As a wise man, Holland didn't want to give a free walk to TOP6 for any kid. You have to earn it, play better than the veteran, or replace the injured veteran and get a part-time duty.
And bringing a kid into organization is not just getting ice-time. It's getting in new daily routines as a NHL pro. Ice-time comes later. People seem not to understand these off-ice things that will belong in career development. Like Chris Kreider, he looked great at last playoffs, now the Rangers are keeping him down, because he needs better conditioning for full season service in NHL. He was great only for a short stint, because he is not ready. Same is happening for Nyquist. After shorter NCAA season he is learning the conditioning for TOP6 role in long AHL-season. They want him to be 100% ready, when he jumps into NHL Top6 role. Tatar looks to be ready after multiple seasons, as well as Andersson. They are up.
And this development doesn't happen in one night just inserting guys in the lineup, it takes seasons. Holland builded this team, that those kids can replace the old veterans, if those veterans don't succeed. Plan A and plan B. Many veterans have collapced and it's the plan B what is happening now. It's just more conservative way to bring these guys in. You don't throw them straight to wolves. You guys with short-term sights just don't see those long-term benefits in Wings future plans.
The problem is, and I think you know this, that the only reason Tatar/Andersson and Lashoff are playing is because of a ridiculous rash of injuries.
And I think you know that as soon as the team is healthy, they all get bussed back to Grand Rapids - except, perhaps, Lashoff.
And the bottleneck will be even worse next year.
Agreed.
But I must take issue with the bold.
Since when is youth a bad thing for winning?
Brett Lebda and Darren Helm were pretty green for us in 08. Datsyuk managed to force his way into a lineup that was pretty stacked in 02. (Heck Fischer was even younger than Datsyuk and he played a huge role)
I'm not talking about a full rebuild, of course. But replenishing as you go.
Because if you don't replenish as you go, the only other option may be a full rebuild.
And to switch blame to Babcock for a second.
Would Babcock have given Datsyuk the job as Hull's center?
Would Babcock have plugged Zetterberg in as a scoring line forward as a rookie?
I don't know, to be honest. Seems doubtful
Day late and a dollar short but having Abdelkader and Cleary on Datysuk's wing is like a radio station hiring someone to come repair their tower because that person worked at 'Radio Shack'
Brick Top
LANA!!!!!
Come on, do you really think playing the "young" guys was an actually a plan of Holland's, or simply a reaction to a rash of injuries this year? Look at the roster, take into account the guys still injured, and it's clear that apart from Smith and Emmerton, Kenny wasn't planning on using any of these other guys- there wouldn't be room if the Wings were healthy. And young is a relative term to describe the guys you listed;
Kindl: 26 yrs old
Andersson, Smith & Emmerton: 24 yrs old
Nyquist: 23 yrs old
Tatar and Lashoff: 22 yrs old
Tatar and Lashoff at 22 are the only really young guys of that list (maybe Nyquist), but in a NHL cap world, you HAVE to play young guys. Ideally you work in a young guy or 2 every season to benefit from the lower cap hit on their ELC's, instead of having vets fill out the roster who cost more (even if they aren't good and easily replaceable- see our glut of redundant forwards).
Kindl is 26 and we are just now getting a real look to see if he's a legit D-man in this league. I know injuries have been an issue, but he's clearly been held back by the organization. Smith is dealing with his rookie growing pains this year instead of being up last season and playing in the same unit, and learning from, Lidstrom. I'm glad to see Emmerton and Andersson show that they are also NHL'ers, but they are 24. If they aren't there yet, it's not happening for them. Tatar and Lashoff are young by most teams' standards, and Gus could go either way.
And this part seems disingenuous and contradictory at the same time:
So Kenny doesn't just give a top 6 slot to "any kid"- that guy has to earn it and beat out a vet. Of course, the obvious joke there is the abomination that has been Cleary and Abby playing with Datsyuk... Tatar or Gus couldn't outplay either of those two stiffs? But then you're saying that Gus will be jumping into a top 6 spot. I thought that these precious top 6 slots weren't just handed out to kids like candy at Halloween.
Sometimes, you guys who prefer to defend Holland's course of action (or inaction, as the case is at times) like to write off people who are critical of some moves and the many more non-moves that KH makes as being short-sighted. Could be that you're over-estimating the long term benefits of what Holland has been doing and not doing lately.
So I'd love to have somebody explain to me now as to why Babcock didn't move Tatar to Datsyuk's wing because it would break up the Eaves-Andersson-Tatar line and it's 10 minutes a game.
DarkReign
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2008
- 4,714
- 98
Dude, how could you suggest breaking up the Gator-Datsyuk-Cleary line?
Are you mad?
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