When did Crosby stop being the best player in the world?

[Sidney the Kidney]

?

this is what I quoted and what you posted.....what the hell are you talking about?

You called my post "ironic" and said I don't see the "hypocrisy" in my statement. I pointed out that nothing I said in that post was ironic or hypocritical since I didn't make a "point" about something previously that I then contradicted in that post you quoted.

For instance, this would be an example of hypocrisy:

Post #1: "Crosby had more points, so who cares who had more goals?"

Post #2: "Crosby scored more goals, even if he had less points. Doesn't mean anything"

The above would be hypocrisy because I'm diminishing goals in one post then propping them up in the second. My post that you quoted did no such thing. My post was a statement of how you move goal posts depending on whether it favors Crosby. It did not make a statement that contradicted something I said earlier. See the difference now?

 

[authentic]

Ahh, so now Crosby fans bring goal scoring / leading the league in goals but when it gets brought up with regards to Ovechkin, its irrelevant.

What's more relevant is that Crosby was a better two-way player and won a Conn Smythe while McDavid had 9 points in 13 games. Obviously McDavid has been the better player since that season, but I do not believe he surpassed him that season.

 

[GreatGonzo]

You called my post "ironic" and said I don't see the "hypocrisy" in my statement. I pointed out that nothing I said in that post was ironic or hypocritical since I didn't make a "point" about something previously that I then contradicted in that post you quoted.

For instance, this would be an example of hypocrisy:

Post #1: "Crosby had more points, so who cares who had more goals?"

Post #2: "Crosby scored more goals, even if he had less points. Doesn't mean anything"

My post was a statement of how you move goal posts depending on whether it favors Crosby. It did not make a statement that contradicted something I said earlier. See the difference now?

I haven’t moved any goal posts though. That’s where your entire argument falls onto itself. I only pointed out the hypocrisy of citing how Crosby was better BECAUSE of goals, and yet the the same logic doesn’t get to be applied to Ovechkin? That’s interesting....

I’ve seen and been told now that Harts and Lindsays don’t matter in certain seasons with Crosby and only smythes and cups. I’ve been told now that Crosby was better because goals in 2017 and 2010 but was better other seasons due to higher assists totals. Don’t talk to be about “hypocrisy.” When Crosby has the most points, he’s the best no matter what, when he has the most goals, doesn’t matter who has more points, when he isn’t the best offensive player, then his defense makes up for it, when he isn’t being voted the best or most valuable, the voters suddenly are incompetent. Your one of the known posters who walks that fine line every Crosby thread.

FYI: I think Crosby is the best of this generation, that won’t change. But what makes him the best was his consistency, he hasn’t been the undisputed best player year in and year out, but that’s when posters like you hold value to certain things that favor Crosby, while belittling other things while ignoring all logic and context. Hope this clears things up for you.

 

[Voight]

What's more relevant is that Crosby was a better two-way player and won a Conn Smythe while McDavid had 9 points in 13 games. Obviously McDavid has been the better player since that season, but I do not believe he surpassed him that season.

Crosby had. much better team around him. Can't fault McDavid for losing in Round 2, hockey isn't a one player sport like basketball.

 

[authentic]

I'd say by the start of 2017-18. Crosby was playing at a higher level than McDavid for most of 16-17, and then won the conn smythe. 17-18 was a relatively disappointing year for Crosby (by his standards), as he finished third in scoring on his own team (granted behind Malkin and Kessel) despite playing the whole year.

I didn't even realize he was outscored by Kessel in a full season.

 

[authentic]

Crosby had. much better team around him. Can't fault McDavid for losing in Round 2, hockey isn't a one player sport like basketball.

I'm not faulting him for losing, I only mentioned how many points he had in the games he played which is relevant if he was apparently already better than Crosby at that point.

 

[K Fleur]

And yet another Pen fan who chooses to come in, contribute nothing, just to “out” someone what’s the matter? You can’t add to the convo so you attack others? Sounds about right. Your better than that, or at least I like to think you are....maybe I’m wrong.

Right and wrong in one sentence

 

[GreatGonzo]

What's more relevant is that Crosby was a better two-way player and won a Conn Smythe while McDavid had 9 points in 13 games. Obviously McDavid has been the better player since that season, but I do not believe he surpassed him that season.

I can understand that argument in some ways, only that I feel that’s when certain people like to put the smythe above the other awards because it suits their agenda. I’m not belittling his smythe, only pointing out that McDavid not having a good post season shouldn’t be held against him. Much like how I didn’t see anyone saying Getzlaf was better than Crosby in 2014 due to him being better in the playoffs. I know it wasn’t the smythe or cup win, only that it’s the same concept.

Crosby also finished second in points and third in goals on his own team. Not saying he wasn’t deserving of his smythe, only that McDavid leading ALL players in scoring while beating out Crosby in both the Hart and Lindsay voting by significant margins shouldn’t suddenly mean less than a smythe because Crosby won it.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Right and wrong in one sentence

Awwww, attack their grammar Because they can’t contribute anything of value to the conversation, how cute.

 

[daver]

You're delusional. If you want to divide points per game by average NHL goals per game, you'd get this for McDavid:

15/16: 0.394
16/17: 0.440
17/18: 0.444
18/19: 0.495
19/20: 0.507

His PPG vs. the other Top 10 to 20 scorers has been about same since 16/17. He is not getting more dominant.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I'm not faulting him for losing, I only mentioned how many points he had in the games he played which is relevant if he was apparently already better than Crosby at that point.

In 2014 Crosby had 9 points in 14 games and was a -4, finishing 4th in scoring on his own team and flopping in the 2nd round. Why wasn’t his status as “best player” that year argued?

 

[GreatGonzo]

His PPG vs. the other Top 10 to 20 scorers has been about same since 16/17. He is not getting more dominant.

Not surprised, Daver moves the goal posts once again

it has nothing to do with “dominance”, it’s about McDavid offensive totals literally increasing, while Crosby’s haven’t been. Your inability to understand basic things is astounding at times.

 

[Trap Jesus]

His PPG vs. the other Top 10 to 20 scorers has been about same since 16/17. He is not getting more dominant.

How about you just give me the exact parameter you want and I'll prove you wrong on your terms.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I didn't even realize he was outscored by Kessel in a full season.

And Malkin as well, who ultimately had the better season between the two. But many would still say Crosby was the best player in the world because of his monster first round, even though his own line mate tied him in points while having one more goal. It’s what I was saying before, the standards change in order to favor Crosby no matter what. Malkin was clearly the better player that year but you won’t hear that often, if not at all.

 

[daver]

How about you just give me the exact parameter you want and I'll prove you wrong on your terms.

I just gave it. Compare his PPG to the average PPG of the other Top 10 scorers.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I just gave it. Compare his PPG to the average PPG of the other Top 10 scorers.

You do realize by those standards Crosby’s offensive totals still don’t get better right?.....

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

The answer is as soon as McDavid played his 1st game.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

More than a third of this board thinking Crosby is better than McDavid as of right now may be the most mind-blowing thing I've ever seen on this forum.

So many Flame and Maple Leaf fans voting in there, that should say what you need to know.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Yeah I don't get it either. Crosby was great in 2017? Because goals? His points were the same as the other years around then.

But his 51 goal 2010 season isn't better than his 36 goal 2014 season somehow?

I get that people are overly focused on individual seasons, but the NHL didn't change that much from 2012-2017, and if you put 2016 Kane or 2012 Malkin into the 2014 season, either one of them is taking a giant dump on Crosby's 2014 season and Sid wins nothing. Same goes for Crosby's 2010 season if you transplanted 2010 Sid into 2014, but since Ovie was clearly better in 2010, they just can't bring themselves to acknowledge that Ovie's third best season is superior to Crosby's best, and so we get these nonsensical results that are clearly emotionally and bias driven.

Why was ov clearly better in 09-10 than Crosby?

 

[Midnight Judges]

Why was ov clearly better in 09-10 than Crosby?

Because he was way more physical.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Because he was way more physical.

Lol here we go

 

[Midnight Judges]

Lol here we go

 

[GreatGonzo]

Why was ov clearly better in 09-10 than Crosby?

He did win the Lindsay, is that enough for you?

How was Crosby better? Ovechkin tied him in points and had one less goal in ten less games. No doubt he would have walked away with the scoring title and Rocket if he played all 82.

 

[Green Snow Storm]

Anyone who voted that he still is the best is kidding themselves. McDavid is the best player in the world and there's a clear gap between him and the next tier.

 

[Dr Salt]

It’s true your right. But it will only be fair to judge him in the post season when he has more experience there. Only time will tell.

Why are you bulking games together? It’s unnecessary. Just go off of the season where Crosby had 11 less points and lost the Hart and Lindsay to McDavid, no need to move the goal posts.

2016-18 Crosby was good defensively but still overrated for many reasons. 2019 was obviously his exceptional year, same goes for McDavid....only on the opposite spectrum with this year.

Crosby is really the only player I’ve seen get the status as one of the best defensive stars in the league while barely playing the PK or being used more For a shut down role, which he isn’t used to for.

Guentzels looks good too...all with one more goal, he must be better than Crosby and McDavid.

I mean its a big difference defensively when Crosby has been in a range from above average defensively to very good on defense especially compared to McDavid who has been bottom 20 in xGA/60 in both 17/18 and 18/19.