When can we start blaming scouting?

[thadd]

He took over in 2008, so judgement is still out on most of his drafts. I would say 2008 is the only one we can evaluate now.
Eberle was a great pick at 22. Hartikainen would be have been a great value in the 6th round, had he been willing to stick around in NA.


2009 is shaping to be pretty disappointing. Paajarvi is no longer part of the organization--and in either case, it does not look like he will amount to much more than 3rd liner.
Lander etching dangerously close to the bust territory. I expect he's one year away from bolting to Sweden. The rest will never see NHL ice.

2010 could still work out--Marincin is tracking well, Pitlick still has potential to turn into a good bottom 6 forward. Martindale and Hamilton not so much, but Davidsom might continue to surprise.

Over the past few years it looks like we may have picked up as many as 5 useful d-men, but it's been hard to draft forwards. Last two drafts might be looking better, but it's too soon to tell.

 

[Seachd]

Is there any real evidence that Jersey and Detroit have more success finding late picks than other teams?

Not in the past hundred years.

 

[Moose Coleman]

Yes, but the problem the Oilers hardly ever find serviceable NHL guys between 30 and 60. Who was the last second rounder who made the big club in the past 10 years? other than Petry, there is none.

Again: is this any worse than other teams?

Take Chicago: between 2000 and 2010, they had 4 guys out of 20 chosen in the range you listed who went onto play more than 200 NHL games (5 if you consider Crawford will get there). Detroit? Five out of 11. Edmonton has had 3 guys make it out of 17 (4 if you count Petry). I'll wager you'd see about the same rate with other teams as well. If I had to guess, Edmonton would probably be right in the middle of the pack.

 

[thadd]

Is there any real evidence that Jersey and Detroit have more success finding late picks than other teams?

1989
3rd round - Lidstrom
4th round - Federov
6th round - Dallas Drake
11th round - Konstontinov

1990
2nd round - Kozlov
7th round - Jason York

1991
3rd round - Ossgood
4th round - Mike Knuble

1992
2nd round - Darren McCarty
10th round - Dan McGillis

1993 sucked

1994
2nd round - Mathieu Dandenault
10th round - Tomas Holmstrom

1995-1997 sucked

1998
8th round - Datsuk

1999
7th round - Zetterberg

2000
2nd round - Tomas Kopecky

2001 sucked

2002
2nd round - Fleischmann
3rd round - Filppula
9th round - Jonathan Ericsson

2003
4th round - Kyle Quincey

2004 sucked

2005
2nd round - Abdelkader
5th round - Helm

2006
2nd round - Shawn Matthias (Not a great player but be played 260 games)

2007 hasn't shown us much so far.

2008

4th round - Nyquist -- He's looking good.

2009

Too early, but 2nd rounder Tatar is turning out OK.

Way too early to go any further.

But That's downright impressive.

 

[IButtersI]

Point, Completely Missed.

Thanks for admitting it.

Successful teams don't have to rely on drafting so much. Especially when free agents are easy to come by.

Edmonton has had a perpetual rebuild that could have been done by now if Stu found atleast a few gems outside RD1.

All that "in Stu we trust" garbage that's been floated around here was completely baseless. He has been mediocre at best and for a rebuilding team with a lot of draft picks, that is unacceptable.

Developing the talent could be the issue I suppose. But the draft record on paper thus far is a huge blackmark on the rebuild IMO

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I wish we'd win a damn game so we don't have to be subjected to these threads.

 

[Moose Coleman]

1989
Way too early to go any further.

But That's downright impressive.

Doesn't answer the question of if they are any better at it than other teams, though. I think the fact they've had some notable successes in late rounds serves to obscure the fact that they also have their share of failures. Put another way: what does it say about their scouting prowess that the six guys they picked before Datsyuk played a total of 2 NHL games?

 

[Hockey Buddha]

Its also about scouting. Last year's draft was brutal. Too many reaches and too much trading down for an extra lotto ticket on late picks.

Interesting. I liked the 2013 draft. It was unorthodox, but I think that it might be one of our more productive drafts. They traded down for more "darts", as Stu put it, which makes sense because they went to Russia for two of those picks in Yakimov and Slepyshev. Both those kids are playing in the KHL at a young age, and Yakimov is producing already. Marc-Olivier Roy (now injured) is a slick player, looking great at the prospects camp, and Kyle Platzer is producing well in the OHL. I also absolutely love the Chase pick. Complete steal imo. He's playing lights out this year, and he's an agitator type as well. The Oilers have been without that type of player for aeons and could use him if he continues to develop. The Muir pick was interesting (off the board and off the radar of most NHL teams), so we'll see where that one goes. I thought it was an interesting draft and that the Oilers came away with a number of potential NHLers, which is all you can really ask for this early after the draft.

 

[IButtersI]

I wish we'd win a damn game so we don't have to be subjected to these threads.

I wish people didnt open threads that didnt interest them just to *****.

If you don't like the thread don't open it and post something that adds nothing to the conversation.

 

[thadd]

Doesn't answer the question of if they are any better at it than other teams, though. I think the fact they've had some notable successes in late rounds serves to obscure the fact that they also have their share of failures. Put another way: what does it say about their scouting prowess that the six guys they picked before Datsyuk played a total of 2 NHL games?

That doesn't matter at all. They knew that they'd found a nobody that would turn into a somebody. All of those other guys were way bigger blips on other teams' radar, obviously. If they knew that he or Zetterberg were closely watched by other scouts then they would have drafted the both of them earlier.

Well, that's my guess. I'm not psychic.

That's relevant is not the fact that they didn't make Edmonton look like a bunch of buffoons by picking a superstar with each pick during that draft year. What's relevant is that we've got a horrible draft record.

 

[Moose Coleman]

Successful teams don't have to rely on drafting so much. Especially when free agents are easy to come by.

Edmonton has had a perpetual rebuild that could have been done by now if Stu found atleast a few gems outside RD1.

Which is it? Do they need the draft or don't they?

All that "in Stu we trust" garbage that's been floated around here was completely baseless. He has been mediocre at best and for a rebuilding team with a lot of draft picks, that is unacceptable.

Developing the talent could be the issue I suppose. But the draft record on paper thus far is a huge blackmark on the rebuild IMO

You haven't put up so much as a scintilla of evidence to show Edmonton's drafting has been any worse than anyone else's under MacGregor.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Thanks for admitting it.

Successful teams don't have to rely on drafting so much. Especially when free agents are easy to come by.

Edmonton has had a perpetual rebuild that could have been done by now if Stu found atleast a few gems outside RD1.

All that "in Stu we trust" garbage that's been floated around here was completely baseless. He has been mediocre at best and for a rebuilding team with a lot of draft picks, that is unacceptable.

Developing the talent could be the issue I suppose. But the draft record on paper thus far is a huge blackmark on the rebuild IMO

You really seem to be confused about what you're trying to talk about it.

 

[Moose Coleman]

That doesn't matter at all. They knew that they'd found a nobody that would turn into a somebody. All of those other guys were way bigger blips on other teams' radar, obviously. If they knew that he or Zetterberg were closely watched by other scouts then they would have drafted the both of them earlier.

Well, that's my guess. I'm not psychic.

Yeah that seems a bit fishy to me. "We have a line on a surefire hall of famer, but we're going to pick a bunch of nobodies first just to throw off other teams."

A more likely explanation: they took a flyer and hit the jackpot. It happens.

That's relevant is not the fact that they didn't make Edmonton look like a bunch of buffoons by picking a superstar with each pick during that draft year. What's relevant is that we've got a horrible draft record

So you keep saying. I'm still waiting for actual proof.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

This

Yeah that Greg Chase guy is brutal right now.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I wish people didnt open threads that didnt interest them just to *****.

If you don't like the thread don't open it and post something that adds nothing to the conversation.

Yes this post added so much to the conversation...

People blame scouting when the odds of finding solid nhlers after round one is minuscule. I'm not talking about chumps you throw on the 4th line or 3rd pairing. Those guys are easily acquired.

If we draft well in the first round and stink up the rest of the draft I don't care.

It's incredibly rare you find a Zetterberg or a Quick and even then you still have to develop them properly.

I would be more worried about development than anything else.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

So is the sort of "point-ish" thing of this thread the Oilers are the Sucks because of bad late round draft picks?

Because unless they are All goalies, I fail to see that as the case.

 

[Senor Catface]

Its beyond pathetic that we haven't been able to produce a NHL caliber goalie from our system. Those scouts are not doing their job well, specially while in europe, Anaheim has Fasth, Chicago has Raanta, we poorly missed out on Bishop and now stranded in middle of nowhere.

But, we tried for both Fasth and Raanta I thought?

 

[Senor Catface]

2003
4th round - Kyle Quincey

2004 sucked

2005
2nd round - Abdelkader
5th round - Helm

2006
2nd round - Shawn Matthias (Not a great player but be played 260 games)

2007 hasn't shown us much so far.

2008

4th round - Nyquist -- He's looking good.

2009

Too early, but 2nd rounder Tatar is turning out OK.

Way too early to go any further.

But That's downright impressive.

But what you're saying is that in 10 years, the best late pick has been Quincey.

We suck at drafting yes.

But the myth of Detroit being a drafting powerhouse is about 10 years out of date.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

When you are on your 4th coach and 3rd GM during the "rebuild" scouting is the least of your worries

 

[thadd]

1989
Never heard of the 4th and 5th rounders, but they played a number of games.
6th rond - Anatoli Semenov

1990 sucked

1991
7th round - Never heard of David Oliver.

1992
3rd round - I liked Kirk Maltby in Edmonton. Turned into an elite checking/energy line guy in Detroit.

1993
2nd round David Vyborny and 5th rounder Satan. Vyborny never played for Edmonton and Satan kicked ass the minute he left Edmonton.

1994 Sucked (Remember, I'm not including the 1st round.)

1995
2nd round - Laraque

1996
3rd round - Injury prone allergic to everything Tom Poti.
8th round - Pisani had a few years that I appreciated a ton.

1997
5th round Chimera never clicked in Edmonton.

1998
4th round - Horcoff

1999
2nd round - Alexei Semenov rings a bell, but I can't connect the dots.
3rd round - Comrie got so good that we had to run him out of town. Or at least management had to.

2000
2nd rounder Brad Winchester sucked
We were on the right track with 7th rounder Matthew Lombardi, but Calgary stole him from us.

2001
5th rounder Jussi Markkanen ALMOST looked like a back-up goalie!

2002
2nd rounders Stoll and Greene were great picks. Too bad we traded them away. Guess having an effective PK wasn't important to management at the time.

2003
2nd rounder---- JFJ!
3rd rounder --- You all miss him... HUGGY THE BEAR! Stortini! Actually not bad for a 3rd rounder since he was expected to turn into an enforcer.
7th rounder Brodziak was a good pick. I don't get why we gave up on him. I know he wasn't the fastest skater, but he wasn't at all a bad player in Edmonton.

2004
4th rounder Liam Reddox needed a few more inches to stick in the NHL, I think.

2005
4th rounder Chris Vande Velde is with with the Barrons, isn't he?

2006
3rd rounder Theo Peckham almost made it.

2007
3 first rounders
Plante is a bust
Can't remember what we got for Nash
Gagner went early.
4th rounder Omark has an outside chance of making it in the NHL.

2008
5th rounder Cornet looks like he won't make it.
6th rounder Hartikainen looks like he's given up

2009 forward again is too soon to tell.

I'd say that Detroit has done 2,000,000 times better than us.

 

[McDoused]

The oilers have no shortage of defencemen a depth forwards. I challenge the OP to name one guy drafted since 2008 that would have been a better pickup that would have a significant impact on our current roster.

Robin Lehner? Brandon Saad? Boon Jenner? That's like three guys in 5 years that they "missed". I'm not sure Jenner is even needed with Gordon here. Joensuu also fills the hole that Saad brings. Lehner is one of those goaltenders that you never know if they pan out. Their are hundreds of players that teams would want a re-do on.

 

[thadd]

But what you're saying is that in 10 years, the best late pick has been Quincey.

We suck at drafting yes.

But the myth of Detroit being a drafting powerhouse is about 10 years out of date.

Are you drunk? There are tons of very effective and important players there. And in the past 10 years we've been a joke.

 

[Moose Coleman]

I'd say that Detroit has done 2,000,000 times better than us.

Great. Now only 28 more teams to go!

 

[Senor Catface]

Are you drunk? There are tons of very effective and important players there. And in the past 10 years we've been a joke.

You listed Kyle Quincey, Abdelkader and Helm.

These are guys every team has drafted.

What do the Oilers have to do with it?

 

[IButtersI]

Which is it? Do they need the draft or don't they?



You haven't put up so much as a scintilla of evidence to show Edmonton's drafting has been any worse than anyone else's under MacGregor.

Yes drafting is important. Nobody in hockey would deny that.

I'm saying that successful teams rely on drafting less. They arent "selling" the future every year to the fanbase. When the future has been thrown in your face for most of the last 20 years or so, i dont think its unreasonable to look at something so relevant and important as amateur scouting. Our expectations should be higher of our scouting group than Detroit of theirs.

Nobody should e getting a free pass right now on the team.

And no, im at work and not going to be looking at 29 other teams draft record. Feel free to do so yourself if its that important for you.

Regardless, I don't give a **** about having a similar record as Detroit Or any other team. It's a results driven business and the current team doesn't have the results.