What's your Carlson walk away number?

At what AAV do you let Carlson walk?


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AlexBrovechkin8

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Carlson may not be irreplaceable but what's the list of players that could single-handedly replace him? Burns, Subban, Doughty, Karlsson, Klingberg, Pietrangelo, Byfuglien, Jones, Weber & Hamilton. Maybe Dumba, Ekblad, Parayko or McAvoy could grow into it as well. So that's 14 defensemen, with some questions as to whether some would be capable of it just yet or, in the case of Weber, whether the future return would necessarily be comparable. They could attempt to split up the responsibilities between more of a PP specialist and then another PKer type but that weakens the overall quality of the blueline and second pair.

I think he's a must sign. We can make ideal criticisms of his game--he's never been an overly strong possession defenseman 5-on-5 compared to the very elite--but it's not like Niskanen or a fairly generic top 4 RHD are capable of being the guy on PP1 just because of the talent around them. There's no Reirden type internal replacement to where they can afford to coolly back away should negotiations force them into a disadvantageous position. It has to get done. I'd hope that the OEL contract would be enough, if not 8x8. Anything more than that and it's really pushing it. That would already be a top 15 AAV. I think he conceivably could make a case for Subban type money but not here.

This was my point in the Roster Building thread. I didn't have Weber, Klingberg, or any of your "maybes" as potential replacements but regardless, all of those guys will cost assets + cap space instead of just the cap space for JC74.

Big, strong, mobile RHD who can QB a PP and eat PK minutes in addition to playing 20+ ESTOI do not grow on trees and they almost never hit the free market. Pay him.
 

islandersdynasty

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Would any of you allow Carlson to walk (and not have a stud d-man for 2018-19) if it meant signing Doughty or Karlsson at the end of next season? If you do, you would risk not repeating, but you would get one of the best d-men in the world for the next few years after that.
 
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SDBondra

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My question is - can we find a taker for Orpik on the market? Buying him out only saves us $1.5m against the cap so that really doesn't help us, considering we still have to replace him. But this is the year we need that $5.5million to stay competitive. I'm hoping Trotz gets to his new team and tells his GM, "Get me Brooksie."
 
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BobRouse

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No matter what folks think of the final AAV, it’s gonna be cheaper than any of the alternatives when you consider, picks, prospects, players + money.

Probably true in overall cost but for us cap space is trickier than assets.

If another team comes in at 7 years 70 million ...
 
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RandyHolt

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I am officially predicting that George will offer 9.5 if he hits free. What the biggest hometown discount anyone can remember? I got Alzner... maybe 1.5Mx2? Fuzzy math.
 
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VaCaps Fan

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GMGM is too dumb to look to other teams for d-men. Easier to poach his old team....
 

darcyRegier

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Sabres fan here, would you guys do something like Orpik + Burakovsky for BUF's 2nd round pick(32 OV) this year? Getting rid of the Orpik contract allows WSH to sign all of its FA's. And if not, how far off is that value?

Or what if we swap out Burakovsky with Vrana and then Buffalo adds McCabe?
 

Silky mitts

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I am officially predicting that George will offer 9.5 if he hits free. What the biggest hometown discount anyone can remember? I got Alzner... maybe 1.5Mx2? Fuzzy math.
Carlson's last deal was insane, it was worse than Backstrom or Stamkos's deals which were bad for the players.
 
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RandyHolt

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Carlson's last deal was insane, it was worse than Backstrom or Stamkos's deals which were bad for the players.

He may have had a dumbass agent. I don't remember much discussion about him and a big home team discount. Maybe he was RFA... someone can go bump the thread and heads will explode here thinking we just got him at 4.

Is this site getting hacked my logins are not taking.
 

Calicaps

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Probably true in overall cost but for us cap space is trickier than assets.

If another team comes in at 7 years 70 million ...
Disagree. You're the guy advocating for more youth. Young guys are cheap. You pay the vets to provide the framework and build around that with cheaper young players.
 

Ridley Simon

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The discussion around Carlson has become pretty heated even though I think 99% of people want Carlson back as long as the number is reasonable. So with that in mind, here's a poll. Assuming he gets 8 years, at what number do you let him walk?

We are also gonna assume GMBM is gonna stick with his guns and not give an NMC or a full NTC, just a 10-15 team no trade list.

Personally I think his on ice performance is only worth 7.50M but I would be willing to offer up to 8.50M before cutting bait.

I don’t have a walk away number.
 

txpd

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Sabres fan here, would you guys do something like Orpik + Burakovsky for BUF's 2nd round pick(32 OV) this year? Getting rid of the Orpik contract allows WSH to sign all of its FA's. And if not, how far off is that value?

Or what if we swap out Burakovsky with Vrana and then Buffalo adds McCabe?

I have no expectation that the Caps will pay someone to take Orpik. Certainly not Burakovsky who traded on his own will bring a nice return of futures. Orpik is still a good player. Overpaid but a good player.

As for Carlson, I don't have a walkaway number. Pay him. If he walks the Caps just cant replace anymore than 70% of his game with other players. If that much.
 

Revelation

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Would any of you allow Carlson to walk (and not have a stud d-man for 2018-19) if it meant signing Doughty or Karlsson at the end of next season? If you do, you would risk not repeating, but you would get one of the best d-men in the world for the next few years after that.

I don't think the gap between them is as big as you think now, prime Karlsson yeah but his ankle has been hanging on by a thread for a while now.

Carlson @ 8 > either of those at 10.
 
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Jags

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Would any of you allow Carlson to walk (and not have a stud d-man for 2018-19) if it meant signing Doughty or Karlsson at the end of next season? If you do, you would risk not repeating, but you would get one of the best d-men in the world for the next few years after that.

IF Carlson wants insane money, yeah, I'd let him walk. And I don't think it would devastate us. We have some assets we can part with to get a solid 2RD to fill in for a year. I still think we'd be a competitive playoff team with a decent shot. And there are more substantial options like Justin Faulk that could be solid, possibly permanent replacements if we managed to get a deal done. Carolina apparently likes Grubauer, so we might be able to put the right package together. I wouldn't hate a move like that.

The point is, yes, there are ways to survive losing Carlson without pissing away next season or making ill-advised trades for the "OMG BEST" guy possible. Still, keeping Carlson is far and away the best option.
 

Alex K

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$8.0-8.25M x 8 years for Carlson (reference point is OEL's contract).
$1.4-1.5M x 2 yrs for Kempny (Grzelcyk's contract)
$0.85-0.9M x 2 yrs for Bowey
Still not sure whos contract is a reference point for Wilson, I think he'll be bridged at $3.5-4M per year.

Other contracts will depend on a cap situation.

Grubauer is gonna be traded 99% (probably at the draft). I don't think Orpik's contract will be bought out, but his trade is possible (unlikely though).
 

artilector

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Jan 11, 2006
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Sabres fan here, would you guys do something like Orpik + Burakovsky for BUF's 2nd round pick(32 OV) this year? Getting rid of the Orpik contract allows WSH to sign all of its FA's. And if not, how far off is that value?

Or what if we swap out Burakovsky with Vrana and then Buffalo adds McCabe?

I don't think it's far off in value -- IMO Bura is worth a pick maybe around 20th OA, and Orpik is neutral (only 1 yr left). Depending on how the rest of the league views things, one could you see your offer as pretty close to the best the Caps might get.

But, I think this is an unlikely trade for the Caps, even though Orpik and Bura are realistic candidates for being traded to fit under the cap. The key factor is that if it does come down to these guys, the Caps should only need to trade one of them. If they trade Orpik, they should easily have enough space to keep Bura. And if they find that they can't trade Orpik without attaching an asset like Bura, then... they'll probably just trade Bura, because they'd then still have enough space to re-sign the other key guys -- and would gladly keep Orpik for his last year.

So I'd simplify into two separate possible trades for each of Orpik/Bura, of which only one is likely to happen, depending on what the Caps decide, and what kind of deal they can get.
 

Aerchon

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Couple questions about Carlson. I've only watched him here and there so don't have a full body of work to go from. Everytime I watched him he always seemed reliable defensively and good offensively. Maybe a case of only seen him good.

Would you consider him a 200 foot player or an offensive defenseman?

OEL just got 8 x 8 and is a pure one dimensional defender from everything I have seen of him. Seen him a lot more than Carlson. Maybe a case of just seeing him bad.

I would have thought based off the cap going up to 80 mill approximately and his age + being a 2 way defensemen that can play in every situation... He gets 9 minimum. Maybe even 10.

Is he not a true #1 solid two way right shooting defenseman?
 

Calicaps

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Couple questions about Carlson. I've only watched him here and there so don't have a full body of work to go from. Everytime I watched him he always seemed reliable defensively and good offensively. Maybe a case of only seen him good.

Would you consider him a 200 foot player or an offensive defenseman?

OEL just got 8 x 8 and is a pure one dimensional defender from everything I have seen of him. Seen him a lot more than Carlson. Maybe a case of just seeing him bad.

I would have thought based off the cap going up to 80 mill approximately and his age + being a 2 way defensemen that can play in every situation... He gets 9 minimum. Maybe even 10.

Is he not a true #1 solid two way right shooting defenseman?
This thread and this one: https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/john-carlson.2176927/ should answer your questions pretty thoroughly, but he’s definitely a 200 foot, all-situations D.
 
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