What's the other three major sports CBA's?

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Ronnie Bass, Dec 13, 2004.

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  1. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass elite pissy upside

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    How does football, baseball and basketball contracts play out?



    Major Leagues baseball is easily a pro-player agreement backed by one of this countries most powerfull and best unions and make absurb amounts of money while holding no responsibilty to what they can inject onto their bodies. But how much freedom do they really have?

    I know that the NFL probably has the most revenue, well either them or baseball, and despite that they have a hard cap and few luxuries and their contracts are I believed are not guarantee. At least not most of them But that's because the players have truly a moron as their president. Is this what the new hockey CBA will resemble the closest?

    And the NBA probably has the best commissoners in sports, he saved this league in the earlier 80's when five teams were on the verge of closing down shop and has turned it into multi multi million dollar sport with a cap and yet enough room that the players make ungod like money and get to keep their jobs no matter what, even if they go smacking around the customers. How is this one structured?



    I'm trying to figure where the NHL should stand compared to the other big three, or should I say much bigger three mainly due to each sports TV contracts and hockey being quite less when all is compared. And a issue that automatically favors the owners in this fight and could make a comparison to the other three real difficult.
     
  2. While Stern deserves credit, The Michael Jordan and Nike marriage was a huge driving force in turning the NBA's fortunes in the right direction.

    The NFL has a salary cap that is directly tied to the television revenue. Their TV deals are astromical and the NHL wishes it could have even 1/4 of the deal for their U.S television rights. They also have the players by the fellas. The NFLPA crumbled when the league used replacement players and saw a lot of players break ranks (most notably the Buffalo Bills who seemed to have almost a full team intact)

    The MLB as you pointed out suffered under poor leadership and the Union won their labour battles. They have a very weak luxury tax system in play from what I can tell.

    The NBA does seem to have a decent set up, but my preference is to see hockey get in line with a CBA closer to what the NFL has in place--- owners, the employers playing with an extreme upper hand, at least until the game starts to grow in the United States and they can get some solid revenue flows in the form of a television contract.
     
  3. pittengineer

    pittengineer Registered User

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    The players sure do not think their president is a moron. That is why they want to renew the CBA. Signing bonuses are guaranteed and are big in the NFL. To balance this, the contracts are not guaranteed, essentially saying to that you must earn your pay. Anyone wonder why hockey is the third world country in sports, while the NFL sits on a $8 billion TV deal?
     
  4. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    I'll tell you it has nothing to do with the CBA's that the NHL and NFL has.

    Football is king in the United States, and it's not just the NFL. In large sections of the country High School Football is king and the ultimate thing to do on a Friday night. Small towns shutdown for Friday night high school football.

    College Football is also king, schools routinely draw 70,000 + ... with a number of schools drawing 90 & 100,000+ for home games.

    Then add in gambling and fantasy football and the NFL would be king in the US even if it had the same CBA as Major Leage Baseball.
     
  5. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    The NBA has a soft salary cap, and luxury tax. Teams are allowed to go over the salary cap to re-sign their own players, and each year a team gets one mid-level exception of $4.9 million.

    The NBA salsry cap is determines off a percentage of league revenues.

    The NBA Salary Cap is $43.87 million, and 26 of the 29 teams are over the cap.

    1) New York Knicks $94.5 million
    2) Portland Trail Blazers $84.3
    3) Dallas Mavericks $78.6
    4) Minnesota Timberwolves $72.4
    5) Sacramento Kings $69.5
    6) Los Angeles Lakers $64.8
    7) New Jersey Nets $63.1
    8) Atlanta Hawks $63.1
    9) Phoenix Suns $59.3
    10) Boston Celtics $59.2
    11) Toronto Raptors $60.8
    12) Memphis Grizzlies $58.2
    13) Indiana Pacers $57.7
    14) Philadelphia 76ers $57.0
    15) Milwaukee Bucks $53.9
    16) Chicago Bulls $53.7
    17) Detroit Pistons $53.1
    18) Golden State Warriors $52.8
    19) Seattle Supersonics $51.1
    20) Houston Rockets $50.4
    21) New Orleans Hornets $49.7
    22) Orlando Magic $47.6
    23) San Antonio Spurs $47.1
    24) Cleveland Cavaliers $46.4
    25) Miami Heat $45.5
    26) Washington Wizards $44.5
    27) Denver Nuggets $41.5
    28) Los Angeles Clippers $38.4
    29) Utah Jazz $36


    There is also a dollor for dollar luxury tax, that I don't have an exact figure for, but it's approx $60 million.

    26 of the 29 teams are over the salary cap and 10-12 teams pay the luxury tax.

    Gary Bettman wants NO part of an NBA style CBA.
     
  6. shadoz19

    shadoz19 Registered User

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  7. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    And they are preparing for another labor war after this season when the NBA CBA expires and they run into another lockout

    Baseball will have another labor war after the 2006 season when theirs runs out as well.

    Anyone know when the NFL CBA expires? I know that CBA has been re-upped a few times.
     
  8. TexSen

    TexSen Registered User

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    I think assuming that the NHL is anywhere near the top four sports is a massive miscalculation.

    How can anyone compare the NHL with the NFL, NBA and MLB is beyond me.
     
  9. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    I think 2007.
     
  10. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    Thaks for the info.I really find it hard to believe that MLB only makes twice the revenue of the NHL.They play twice the games at larger venues plus they have
    a big TV contract.Also the liscencing for their products has a much bigger market.
     
  11. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass elite pissy upside

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    Actually I was more surprised on how close the NBA and NHL are, I figured with their TV contact and all the merchandise the NBA would be at least double of the NHL.
     
  12. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    One other thing to add in regards to the NBA CBA that I failed to mention above:

    The NBA has is minimum & maximum salary limits that depend upon years of service.


    NBA Minimums for 2004-05

    Starts at $385K for a first year player moving in increments up to $1.1 million for a player with 10+ years of service

    The maximums are

    $9 million or 25% of team salary cap (whichever is greater) for players with 6 or less years of NBA service

    $11 million or 30% of team salary cap (whichever is greater) for players with 7-9 years of service

    $14 million or 35% of team salary cap (whichever is greater) for players with 10 or more years of service.
     
  13. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    So I'm thinking the NHL numbers are inflated
    and the other sports deflated.
     
  14. shadoz19

    shadoz19 Registered User

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    the one thing that interested me the most was that the NFL's cap is set at 64.9% of revenues. After reading that I don't think that Bettman reallt expects to get a 55% cap. Just a a starting point. They would probably give in to more than what they originally proposed.
     
  15. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    Its hard to say. The thing to remember is the running costs would be lower as a percentage of income. For example

    Player costs are $1b
    Running costs are $1b
    Total revenues $2b

    Then the most you could expect to reasonably pay would be 50% of revenue.

    Player costs are $6b
    Running costs are $2b
    Total revenues $8b

    Now the most you could expect to reasonably pay would be 75% of revenue

    If things are going brilliantly, like the NFL with its massive TV deals, then 66% might just work (with room to go higher). If on the other hand they stink like the NHL a figure of 55% or lower might be more appropriate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2004
  16. DownFromNJ

    DownFromNJ Registered User

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    NHL revenue is top-4.

    The only thing the NHL lags on is in TV revenue. And no, NASCAR/Golf/Bowling/Poker does not equal the NHL in TV revenue either.
     
  17. NHL is in need of a large revenue source which would be a large TV deal. How much does CBC and TSN pay for national rights? Teams need to negotiate local deals, and also the NHL/NHLPA once the partnership is formed come together to collectivley focus on improving the game to get the average fan, and thus increase ratings and bring in a large TV deal. A goal for at least $500 million over a 6-7 year deal would be very beneficial.
     
  18. no13matssundin

    no13matssundin Registered User

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    NASCAR is going to eclipse the NHL very easily in TV revenue in the coming years. They signed a 10 year 700 Million dollar sponsorship with Nextel... the TV revenue will follow.
     
  19. sabresfan65

    sabresfan65 Vegas HAS Hockey!! Sponsor

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    NHL national TV revenue was between $6 and 8 million per team or between $180 and 240 million.

    Nascar gets $300 million a year.
     
  20. DownFromNJ

    DownFromNJ Registered User

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    Key word, national TV revenue. NHL local contracts far outdo NHL national contracts.

    NASCAR doesn't have local revenue streams, which is why it will never make the cash of the NHL. Theres only so much space on a car that you can place an advertisement.
     
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