What's the difference? Phaneuf or Barker by the numbers....

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by HabLover, Nov 26, 2004.

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  1. HabLover

    HabLover Registered User

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    Dion Phaneuf - 6'2 200lbs

    16 yrs old - 66gp, 5g + 12a = 17pts, +21, 170pims
    17 yrs old - 71gp, 16g + 14a = 30pts, +28, 185pims
    18 yrs old - 62gp, 19g + 24a = 43pts, +11, 126pims
    19 yrs old - 17gp, 11g + 8a = 19pts, +5, 25pims


    Cam Barker - 6'3 200lbs

    16 yrs old - 64gp, 10g + 37a = 47pts, -16, 79pims
    17 yrs old - 69gp, 21g + 44a = 65pts, +17, 105pims
    18 yrs old - 22gp, 5g + 20a = 25pts, +11, 46pims


    So what's the big difference between these two blue chip prospects? Look at Barker's number's early on and they are much better than Phaneuf's. Both have played on very good teams in their early years, perhaps Barker's team at 16 wasn't very good, but he still put up some fine numbers. Is Barker better offensively than Phaneuf, even though Phaneuf scored 19 times last year and would probably put up 30 goals this year as a D-man if not for the WJC. I think everyone would agree that Phaneuf is the more physical D-man between the two? So in the end, who will be better?
     
  2. mazmin

    mazmin Go! Jets! Go!

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    They both do everything well. They can both hit, shoot, pass and skate with the best of them. As you implied, Phaneuf is a harder hitter but Barker is more of a scoring threat. Barker is one of the best stickhandling d-men I have ever seen in junior hockey. The kid can dangle!
     
  3. BuppY

    BuppY xGoodwillx

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    Aree with you ;)
     
  4. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    Phaneuf is more physical by a far margin and difficult to play against .. Barker is more offensively creative and likely to post better offense numbers at the NHL level ..
     
  5. Mizral

    Mizral Registered User

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    Phaneuf is just flat out a better player. I haven't seen Barker play in a little while mind you, but the numbers doesn't make for a good comparison. You gotta watch Phaneuf play to really appreciate everything he brings to the table.
     
  6. Colt.45Orr

    Colt.45Orr Registered User

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    I concur...

    except that I have seen Barker this year...
     
  7. Mizral

    Mizral Registered User

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    Please note that this doesn't mean Barker sucks. Hardly, he's a very competant defensman who has top 3 upside for sure. Phaneuf however is in that 'other level'. If I had to compare the two, it'd be something like Scott Stevens to Eric Brewer. While both would be classified as top-tier defensemen, Stevens obviously blows Brewer out of the water at similar ages.
     
  8. bruins4777*

    bruins4777* Guest

    I'm going to agree with the guy who said that phaneuf is on a higher "level" than barker. Personally i think barker is pretty overrated. A lot of people i've talked to have been saying barker has a higher celing than bouwmeester. To me at the most barker will be is a no.1 defensemen with decent all-star potential. However i think phaneuf will be one of those "game breaking" dmen. He like stevens will, in the future, be able to change a single game with just one open ice hit.

    But both won't be as good as bouwmeester so lets leave it at that :D
     
  9. kruezer

    kruezer Registered User

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    I love Phaneuf and I see the guy all the time, but from what I've seen of Barker, I'd take him. People have been too down on Barker lately IMO. I do think Barker will be better than Bouwmeester personally. I think Jay will be a very good defensemen, but I just think Barker has a better head for the game, not that Jay or Dion suck at reading the game, but thats where Barker has another level IMO, his offensive reads are second to none. Phaneuf is a dynamo on the PP, but with 5 men coming against him, I don't think he can pick his spots like Barker can. Bouwmeester has the most physical skills though, he's just imposing and lightning fast. I'd do it like this.

    Barker>Bouwmeester=Phaneuf
     
  10. bruins4777*

    bruins4777* Guest

    Personally i'd do
    bouwmeester>>phaneuf>barker

    Out of defensemen i think the guy with the best head is ryan suter. I mean barker has a nice head on his shoulders, but i don't think i've seen a defensemen better at reading the play than ryan suter for a long time.

    Also Bouwmeester's vision is top tier to me, not up to kraijeck's, but then again few are. I'd say its either as good or better than phaneuf's and barkers. I think most of phaneuf's success scoring wise is mostly from that enourmous shot from the point.

    To me bouwmeester can excel above barker and phaneuf because he has everything. Vision, skill, hitting(now developing with recent world cup events), poise, and everything that a franchiser needs to have. Seeing all of this i really think he is better than barker and phaneuf. I've also seen bouwmeester more than barker and phaneuf and the fact that bouwmeester is my fav player probably sways my opinion though ;)

    Out of the 3 this is how i rank.
    hitting:phaneuf
    speed:bouwmeester by miles
    puckhandling:bouwmeester
    shot:bouwmeester
    vision:bouwmeester
    passing:bouwmeester
    defensive ability:bouwmeester

    So as you see here, to me bouwmeester vastly out ranks everybody :D

    Anyways, just my opinion. I think its easiest to judge bouwmeester because i've seen him in the NHL, world cup, WJC's, and world championships. I've only seen phaneuf at the WJC's and a few junior games. Same with barker.
     
  11. andora

    andora Registered User

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    speed, or skating abilities ? there is a difference

    remember, we must compare barker to bouwmeester at barker's age now.. barker imo has the better puck moves

    what type of shot, there are plenty

    :dunno:, this is a tough one... also, breakout passing, on the rush, powerplay etc.. again it isn't cut and dry

    again, defensive ability how, along the boards, puck pressure, positioning etc...

    sooooooooo... :D
     
  12. kruezer

    kruezer Registered User

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    Yeah, its a tough call, I watch alot of WHL action, and even having seen all of these guys tonnes of times, my opinion still changes all the time.

    Trying to compare them each at the same age is tough, because they're all young and developing, and at different rates.

    Sometimes its week to week with me ranking these guys. And yes, I do think about it all too often, I should get back to my Comp Sci report. :D
     
  13. andora

    andora Registered User

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    so what's the difference between us, we can start at the penis, or we can scream I JUST DON'T GIVE A **** and see who means it
     
  14. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers ordinary corrupt human love

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    so what's the difference between me and you?
     
  15. andora

    andora Registered User

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    about five bank accounts 2 ounces and three vehicles

    :help: not sure if that's right
     
  16. Leeroy Jenkins

    Leeroy Jenkins Registered User

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    Bouwmeester is a proven NHLer whereas Barker and Phaneuf haven't even proven themselves at the AHL level, let alone the NHL.
     
  17. bruins4777*

    bruins4777* Guest

    Ok for that person with the huge comparison challenge?

    skating abilities:
    bouwmeester still by miles

    puckhandling:
    i'm still taking bouwmeester

    shot in general, from the point, wrister, slap, inclose, etc:
    still bouwmeester

    passing in general once again:
    once again bouwmeester

    defensive ability in general including along the boards, in front of net, everything:
    what a suprise bouwmeester again.

    As for age differences? Remeber that bouwmeester played on a team with an inompetent goalie and spear headed the top offense in the league. He also played MUCH more WJC's than barker and phaneuf and played better than them at those WJC's so do you want to take that into account? Bouwmeester would have played in a record 4 wjc's if it wasn't for the fact that he was soo good at the NHL that the panthers needed him.
     
  18. mazmin

    mazmin Go! Jets! Go!

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    That's one opinion.

    Here's another:

    They're all pretty similar players as I stated above. From what I've seen Bouwmeester is the best skater, Phaneuf is the toughest and Barker has the best offensive skills. They are three of my favourite players so I don't have any particular bias. I guess we'll have to wait and see how they turn out.
     
  19. andora

    andora Registered User

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    figured so

    do you mean the way that nhl teams rush in under aged players all the time
     
  20. bruins4777*

    bruins4777* Guest

    ? He made the team out of training camp showed tremendous poise. He started off as a no. 5 dman on the 2nd power play unit. By the time the all-star break rolled around he was a no.2 dman on the first power play unit and 2nd penalty kill unit. By the end of the season he was the no.1 dman on first power play and first penalty kill. He played all 82 games. Few rookies accomplish that. He was the panthers best and most consistent dman the whole year. His numbers suck, but consider the team he was on. Anyways, he could have gone to a 4th straight WJC, but the panthers needed him so badly they couldn't afford to send him. If he went he would have set a record for 4 WJC's. That was my point. He was also the youngest player ever to play in the WJC's. Which is, to me, more impressive cause he was a dman. While forwards have 12 spots, dmen have 6 and he made it as a 16 year old and did a damn good job of it too. Considerin phaneuf and barker came no where close to making the WJC's at this age, i don't think they contend.
     
  21. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    Gah you stole my line! Although the three and two should be switched.
     
  22. Mizral

    Mizral Registered User

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    Agreed with you on Suter, but how about heart? Phaneuf is just a guy you win with, Bouwmeester I still feel doesn't play hard enough. Plus I think he's just way too weak physically.
     
  23. bruins4777*

    bruins4777* Guest

    Bouwmeester doesn't play hard? Come on now? Bouwmeester doesn't play as physical as phaneuf for sure, but thats not his game. However look at this bouwmeester's work ethic is incredible. I think heart has a lot to do with work ethic. And bouwmeester is constantly striving to improve and changing his game when the situation calls.

    Look at the world cup, he is normally a puck rusher with no fear and a perfect pincher, but pat quinn wanted him to play more defensive and bouwmeester reacted perfectly. He played a more defensive style of hockey and while he still pinched and rushed, he played fantastic. Depending on the situation bouwmeester has always played great.

    While he isn't the most physical out of the three he still has loads of heart. Throughout his whole career, outside of international comps, he has always played on a poor team. Medicine hat never made the playoffs because of a poor goalie and horrid defense outside of him, the panthers are growing, but these 2 seasons thus far are fairly poor. Despite this he has showed tremendous poise and leadership. On games where he has dominanted he'll distract the attention away saying things like "i couldn't have done it without my team mates" and such.

    He may not be as physical, but to me his heart can't be questioned. Rather than quit on plays, he constantly goes into corners and pinches viciouslly. While he typically relies on his skating to blow away people and beat them that way defensively he is perfectly capable of physical play. Look at that hit where he KILLED amonte at the world cup. Hit of the world cup to me.

    Heart can be demonstrated in other ways than grit.

    As for way to weak physicaly? Come on now. There is a reason people have said things like "paul coffey skating in a chris pronger body". His body is filled out and he is very strong. He doesn't get that skating with a weak frame.
     
  24. Sammy*

    Sammy* Guest

    :amazed: :amazed:
    This is an unbelievably uninformed comment.
    Its all fine to be on the Phaneuf hype train but god man, from this comment its like you have never seen Boumeester play.
    Unbelievable.
     
  25. andora

    andora Registered User

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    bouwmeester can float, as can most players. sure, he doesn't do it very much, but i agree with jay thompson in this sense. jay doesn't have that inborn mean nasty streak that makes him punish players etc.. like an adam foote or even dion phaneuf has, and in that sense, when you look for a defenceman to nail a guy or rough him up, you don't see that with jay and in that case may see it as a defficiency, wheras the truth is jay doesn't need to play that way to still dominate all over the place, using his size, reach, skating, and smarts to win defensively, kind of like niklas lidstrom does
     
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