What's the deal with 1992-93?

[seventieslord]

Pretty bold statement, but not neccesarily true. Many players more accomplished than Crosby were born after or during 1965 (Yzerman, Lafontaine, Modano, Ovechkin, Lidstrom, Brodeur, Jon Tavares, Mario Lemieux, etc.).

I think he's aware of Lemieux/Roy, which is why he said 1965 in the first place.

Yzerman, Lafontaine, Modano... have they won a hart or been the best player or top scorer in the league? Forget it!

Ovechkin, more accomplished? I think not.

Brodeur and Lidstrom currently both have enough accolades to trump the Hart that they don't have that Crosby has. But remember that he said "best hockey player" - which he is. He hasn't been around long enough to have their accomplishments.

Tavares will probably be better. Just not yet.

 

[EpochLink]

The reason why Brett Hull only scored 54 goals that year because Adam Oates wasn't with him. Craig Janney was with Hull and Shanahan on the same line so Hull couldn't hog all the scoring, he had a good number one center and a good number one winger so yeah...spread the love around will ya?!

Look at what Gilmour did in Toronto, he accomplished 127 points which is a club record, once Andreychuk was traded to the Leafs he reached 50 goals on Gilmours line with Borschevsky and sometimes Glen Anderson.

Selanne got 76 goals because of Housley who had 70+ assists and 97 points that year, sadly enough that wasn't enough for the Norris Trophy. Zhamnov was his center and Tkachuk was his other winger..

Mogilny got 76 goals from Lafontaine's 95 assists and Hawerchuk's 80, mostly on the power play or five on five.

 

[Impossibles]

I blame Jeff Hacket (5.28 GAA in 26 games) and Peter Sidorkiewicz (with an All-Star performance of a 4.43 GAA in 64 games)

 

[seventieslord]

The reason why Brett Hull only scored 54 goals that year because Adam Oates wasn't with him. Craig Janney was with Hull and Shanahan on the same line so Hull couldn't hog all the scoring, he had a good number one center and a good number one winger so yeah...spread the love around will ya?!

Look at what Gilmour did in Toronto, he accomplished 127 points which is a club record, once Andreychuk was traded to the Leafs he reached 50 goals on Gilmours line with Borschevsky and sometimes Glen Anderson.

Selanne got 76 goals because of Housley who had 70+ assists and 97 points that year, sadly enough that wasn't enough for the Norris Trophy. Zhamnov was his center and Tkachuk was his other winger..

Mogilny got 76 goals from Lafontaine's 95 assists and Hawerchuk's 80, mostly on the power play or five on five.

IIRC, Housley's 97 points weren't even enough to get on the 2nd all-star team. There's just no substitute for playing defense!

 

[EpochLink]

Bourque and Chelios made first team all start that year
Larry Murphy and Al Iafrate made second team all star that year..

Housley made second team all star in 1992 but was shunned out that year..

 

[seventieslord]

Bourque and Chelios made first team all start that year
Larry Murphy and Al Iafrate made second team all star that year..

Housley made second team all star in 1992 but was shunned out that year..

He wasn't shunned. There were at least four defensemen with a better all-around game than him. I was a silly 12 year old who thought he deserved the norris for his 97 points, but as I grew and watched more hockey I learned the truth.

 

[jamiebez]

If I recall correctly, Housley's 97 points weren't even enough to get on the 2nd all-star team. There's just no substitute for playing defense!

No doubt. Despite getting 97 points, he finished the year at -14.

 

[JCD]

I think a notable reason can be seen by looking at that year's Cup Winner.

92-93 marked the high-water point for firewagon hockey. For the previous decade plus, teams were in an arms race to outscore the Islanders and Oilers. Defense was an afterthought.

Then in 92-93, a defensively-minded team that played 4 lines beat the best player on the planet who was on a historic Cup run. Being a copycat league, teams started to follow suit. A trend that exploded once the Devils beat the heavily favored RedWings by rolling 4 lines and focusing on defense.

If the Kings beat the Canadians, I don't think we see such a quick drop off in scoring that we did over the following few seasons.

 

[Ogopogo*]

I
If the Kings beat the Canadians, I don't think we see such a quick drop off in scoring that we did over the following few seasons.

The large goalie equipment that started to appear in the mid-90s would have made a serious dent in scoring, even without all the defensive systems.

 

[FissionFire]

The large goalie equipment that started to appear in the mid-90s would have made a serious dent in scoring, even without all the defensive systems.

Agreed. Defensive systems can help, but anyone looking at goalies from 92-93 and then compare them to the 06-07 goalies can see that there's a huge difference. And "the kids are bigger now" can't account for the exponential growth in equipment size. I'd bet scoring would jump by as much as 1 goal/GM if the NHL simply cracked down on the thigh risers that double as ab protectors, shoulder pads which make Rosie O'Donnell jealous, chest guards built to repel mortar fire, and catching gloves big enough to stop SCUD missles.

 

[MS]

I think a notable reason can be seen by looking at that year's Cup Winner.

92-93 marked the high-water point for firewagon hockey. For the previous decade plus, teams were in an arms race to outscore the Islanders and Oilers. Defense was an afterthought.

Then in 92-93, a defensively-minded team that played 4 lines beat the best player on the planet who was on a historic Cup run. Being a copycat league, teams started to follow suit. A trend that exploded once the Devils beat the heavily favored RedWings by rolling 4 lines and focusing on defense.

If the Kings beat the Canadians, I don't think we see such a quick drop off in scoring that we did over the following few seasons.

Montreal was great defensive team under Pat Burns from 1988-1992 ... I think they won the Jennings every year in that stretch. But the team was only a decade removed from their dominance of the 1970s, and the way they played wasn't popular all with the Montreal fans/media. When they didn't do anything in the 1990-92 playoffs, Burns was canned despite great regular season records.

When Jacques Demers was hired for 1992-93, he promised a return to 'firewagon hockey'. And that's basically what they did - went from one of the lower-scoring teams to one of the highest, and their GAA ballooned by almost a goal/game.

If anything, Montreal's victory showed the exact opposite of what you're claiming - they were still a pretty decent defensive team (9th of 24 teams) and better than LA who were terrible, but they won the Cup by going *more* offensive, not the other way.

 

[OnePoll*]

Heck Joe Juneau score over 100pts that year...

The habs win the Stanley Cup with 4 forwards over 80pts

Damphousse 97pts
Muller 94pts
Bellows 88pts
Lebeau 80pts

6 others over 40pts

Keane 60pts
Savard 50pts (63 games)
Dionne 48pts
Desjardins 45pts
LeClair 44pts
Scheinder 44pts (60 games)

Definatly that year was pretty high in scoring...

The additional 4 games and like peopel said the two expansions team who was awful. Hartford and Tampa Bay was also very bad.

 

[mpm26]

Pretty bold statement, but not neccesarily true. Many players more accomplished than Crosby were born after or during 1965 (Yzerman, Lafontaine, Modano, Ovechkin, Lidstrom, Brodeur, Jon Tavares, Mario Lemieux, etc.).

You are crazy. For one i said after 1965 so lemieux doesnt count.Yzerman, Lafontaine, Modano, Ovechkin, Lidstrom, Brodeur are no where near crosby in terms of points in there career and Tavares is 16.

 

[mpm26]

Tavares is more accomplished than Crosby was at the same age, and AO is argueably the best player in the NHL right now.

Mike Modano has done more in his NHL career than Crosby, too. It just took him a few more years to do so.

Not in the first two years he didnt. AO is top 5 maybe, crosby is number 1 now and for the future.

 

[Brownies]

Where can I find the number of goals scored in the NHL per year ? Can't find it...

 

[OnePoll*]

You are crazy. For one i said after 1965 so lemieux doesnt count.Yzerman, Lafontaine, Modano, Ovechkin, Lidstrom, Brodeur are no where near crosby in terms of points in there career and Tavares is 16.

Pretty silly comments IMO.

You are comparing a top-20 players of all time (Yzerman) against a somophore who played great for two season... Just FYI Lindros in his first two season had a similar or higher PPG than Crosby and never acheive to beat Yzerman.

When Crosby will finish his career over 1755 come see me, but I really doubt it.

I really doubt that Crosby will ever win a Selke Trophy, 10 times All Star is plausible thought. Then again, I don't think that Crosby will win 3 Stanley Cup during his career, its possible but with the cap space these days and the horrible D corp... Dunno.

I really like Crosby but he is OVERRATED by some people like you, to said that Stevie Y is nowhere near Crosby in terms of point, dumb enough to me.

 

[mpm26]

Pretty silly comments IMO.

You are comparing a top-20 players of all time (Yzerman) against a somophore who played great for two season... Just FYI Lindros in his first two season had a similar or higher PPG than Crosby and never acheive to beat Yzerman.

When Crosby will finish his career over 1755 come see me, but I really doubt it.

I really doubt that Crosby will ever win a Selke Trophy, 10 times All Star is plausible thought. Then again, I don't think that Crosby will win 3 Stanley Cup during his career, its possible but with the cap space these days and the horrible D corp... Dunno.

I really like Crosby but he is OVERRATED by some people like you, to said that Stevie Y is nowhere near Crosby in terms of point, dumb enough to me.

You underrate crosby because if he plays 20 years which is possible he will get well over 2000 points. Big E played a different game then crosby and does not have the vision and couldnt keep his head up. Tell me then how many scoring titles does stevie y have? How many harts? Crosby ppg is better in his first two years then yzerman was. Now tell me who is overrated?

 

[Blades of Glory]

You underrate crosby because if he plays 20 years which is possible he will get well over 2000 points. Big E played a different game then crosby and does not have the vision and couldnt keep his head up. Tell me then how many scoring titles does stevie y have? How many harts? Crosby ppg is better in his first two years then yzerman was. Now tell me who is overrated?

Crosby might outscore Yzerman, but that's about it.

 

[mpm26]

Crosby might outscore Yzerman, but that's about it.

Whats that mean? Hes the youngest captain in nhl history.

 

[Blades of Glory]

Whats that mean? Hes the youngest captain in nhl history.

When Crosby has 3 Stanley Cups, a Conn Smythe, an Olympic Gold Medal, a Selke Trophy, and is widely considered among the top 5 captains of all-time, come back to me. This discussion can be had 20 years from now.

 

[mpm26]

When Crosby has 3 Stanley Cups, a Conn Smythe, an Olympic Gold Medal, a Selke Trophy, and is widely considered among the top 5 captains of all-time, come back to me. This discussion can be had 20 years from now.

I guess we will see in 20 years then.

 

[ginc]

Why were Ottawa and Tampa so horribly bad?
Because the expansion draft rules were horrible for the new teams.

When Ottawa and Tampa entered the league, the other teams were able to protect 2 goaltenders and 14 skaters. In addition, the available goalies only needed to play 1 game, so every team in the league had their third stringer play once in order to protect their top 2.
The expansion rules were made more favorable to new teams in later years.

This means that Ottawa and Tampa's lineups were constructed with third string goalies, 4th line forwards, #6 defensemen, prospects that weren't ready for the NHL, and players that would otherwise be stuck in the minors.

 

[vancityluongo]

Crosby might outscore Yzerman, but that's about it.

Agree. Crosby will end up (IMO) next to the Yzerman's and Sakic's, all-time.

 

[arrbez]

It's probably safe to say that the drafting of Rory Fitzpatrick made everyone in the league just a little better, if only for that one season. This is known as the "Fitzpatrick Bump".

 

[Ogopogo*]

Agree. Crosby will end up (IMO) next to the Yzerman's and Sakic's, all-time.

Just curious why you think that when he has had the 2nd greatest first two seasons in the history of the NHL - and that includes Howe, Orr and Lemieux.