Ah yes, Sakic without the speed.
Don't forget about his Horcoff for the Olympic team stuff in 2010, a year which Horcoff scored 36 points in 77 games.
What's our real problem?
- Thread starter oilphan
- Start date
Ah yes, Sakic without the speed.
Don't forget about his Horcoff for the Olympic team stuff in 2010, a year which Horcoff scored 36 points in 77 games.
This is bang on! They need to start making some personnel choices. They did the right thing by drafting the BPA but it's time to start cashing in those chips to make a proper team. Right now this is not a team, it's a collection of a few very talented players of the same ilk, that alone does not make a team.
Sadly, one of those chips is not fully valued yet. Yak needs to start performing before his full value could be considered when trying to decide who stays and who goes.
I've seen it mentioned at # 4 o5 a bit in this thread, but I think the #1 issue is the goaltending. We had to play a friggin 3rd stringer yesterday against the leafs, all because our #1 and #2 goalies can't stop an over blown beach ball.
I'm not sure why the goalies are getting a free ride around here still. They suck balls.
Now a team like Toronto has goaltending.
I think our defense would look a lot better with actual NHL caliber goaltending, not a bunch of backups that we have right now....including DD.
I'm not sure why the goalies are getting a free ride around here still. They suck balls.
Now a team like Toronto has goaltending.
I think our defense would look a lot better with actual NHL caliber goaltending, not a bunch of backups that we have right now....including DD.
Replacement*
Checked out
Draiskull
Registered User
- Oct 26, 2005
- 23,332
- 2,167
top line vs top line is not working for us..
Yak-Gagner-Ebs were -11 combined last night...
We are getting owned by the top lines of opponents... Crosby was in on every goal scored against us , Ovy had a few, Kessel\JVR have feasted against us, LA's top line scored against us.. so on and so forth..
We need to get Gordon up on "top line" and give Gagner\Nuge the sheltered minutes.
Perron is also a good guy to put against top lines..
Yak-Gagner-Ebs were -11 combined last night...
We are getting owned by the top lines of opponents... Crosby was in on every goal scored against us , Ovy had a few, Kessel\JVR have feasted against us, LA's top line scored against us.. so on and so forth..
We need to get Gordon up on "top line" and give Gagner\Nuge the sheltered minutes.
Perron is also a good guy to put against top lines..
DisgruntledGoat*
Registered User
- Dec 26, 2010
- 4,301
- 27
Not disagreeing with you, but its funny that Perron is one of our better defensive players. He was an offensive QMJHL product... Not the typical pedigree for a Selke candidate.
But wait... He came up through the St Louis system... And DEVELOPED his game and was forced to work on his weaknesses! By a franchise that provided him with guidance, quality coaching, expectations, and slotted him into a team identity.
What a shocking concept. Perron, Ference and Gordon all came out of organizations that dont make excuses and are commited to success. Id love to know what they think of this gong show.
Goaltending has definately cost us some games early on but it's not the problem lately. We got beat 4-0 last night. Tough to blame goaltending on that one, we didn't score. We have a bad PP, bad PK, can't score, not fortitude, on and on and on.
Don't get me wrong, we don't have great goaltending but only a few teams do. Blaming goaltending lets everyone else off the hook and they don't deserve to be let off the hook.
Agreed. Although scoring 0 goals a game is a sure fire way to lose as well.
How embarassing is it that we have envy towards the Leafs? One should look up how many 1 round draft picks are in their lineup.
dustrock
Too Legit To Quit
- Sep 22, 2008
- 8,360
- 981
This. But, I'm beginning to wonder about the hockey IQ of half our team.
Wide-open passes into skates, blown defensive coverage. I mean, these are skills you learn along the way.
Eakins shouldn't be suddenly revealing How To Play Hockey to players who have been playing full-time hockey for most of their lives.
I'm also wondering how many players are dogging it (a) because nothing changes here, but also now (b) to hopefully be traded out of town. I'm not even sure I'd blame them if they had that attitude.
Sorry...can't agree. We do have some major deficiencies in many places, but to me, the #1 issue is indeed the goaltending. When a good goalie stops a puck from going in the net, even though it is deemed a sure goal (Kessel for example), it changes the momentum of the team in front of him. The lack of our goaltending being able to make any big saves has, and is continuing, to inhibit this change of momentum.
I hear all this other stuff in here and on the radio/tv, like top line vs top line, PK, back checking etc. I know it's an issue, but the tending seems to get a pass for some reason.
Are we getting so used to ****** goaltending that no one seems to think it's the #1 issue?
Oilfan2
13.5%
- Aug 12, 2005
- 4,985
- 140
Actually, there are many folks saying goaltending is an issue. I think, where there are some differences is, whether it's a good goalie or a great one. For instance, if the Oil had a good goalie they probably would have another 6 points by now. However, if we had a great goalie, we'd have 8 -10 more..and yes, a great goalie may have been able to make a great save on Kessel last night.
A good goalie keeps us in games but, imo, masks many of the things that are wrong with this team. As has been mentioned by many, we have too many of the same players up front so we need toughness/grit in the top 6. We need a top 1/2 defenceman and, yes, a good goalie.
I've been saying for the last 2 years that we have the wrong mix. I understand why we kept our first overalls and picked the BPA. However, now we should be re-evaluating and making some changes to fill the holes. I suspect we're going to need to trade at least 2 of the following to get that mix...Eberle, Yakupov, Hall, RNH, Gagner as well as one of Hemsky J Schultz and Petry. I would keep Hall, RNH and Perron(one of the few with grit who isn't afraid to go to the hard areas) but those are my choices. With giving up those 2-3 players we should be able to fill 3 of the holes...good goalie, top 2 D and a good top 6 forward with strength/grit/truculence..
Starbuds
You like muscles?
- Mar 28, 2010
- 2,790
- 18
It's rotten from top to bottom. From the billionaire owner who made his fortune in pharmaceuticals (people are surprised that he turned out slimy in the arena deal?), through management and players, down to the wealthy Albertan fans who dish out however much money it takes to see the team lose in person.
nexttothemoon
and again...
Short answer... they suck.
Slightly longer and more rational answer... not enough grit and physicality in their lineup... not high enough of a compete and effort level on the roster to play a solid 60 minutes game after game.
Defensive squad and goaltending is inferior. On top of that the team seems to have regressed on their special teams under Eakins. Too early to blame him for everything BUT not too early to say he certainly doesn't seem to be delivering anything that looks very positive either when this team is actually looking WORSE than it did the last several years when we thought it was as bad as it could get in the recent "basement years". He's making Wreck It Ralph look like a decent coach.
Short answer again... they suck.
Slightly longer and more rational answer... not enough grit and physicality in their lineup... not high enough of a compete and effort level on the roster to play a solid 60 minutes game after game.
Defensive squad and goaltending is inferior. On top of that the team seems to have regressed on their special teams under Eakins. Too early to blame him for everything BUT not too early to say he certainly doesn't seem to be delivering anything that looks very positive either when this team is actually looking WORSE than it did the last several years when we thought it was as bad as it could get in the recent "basement years". He's making Wreck It Ralph look like a decent coach.
Short answer again... they suck.
Real Problem?
1) I didn't believe our problem last year was solely the Oilers bottom six forwards. It became an argument the idiotic media bandwagon jumped on. But it makes no logical sense that forwards who were playing 6-10 minutes a game was causing the Oilers to lose more than the top six players playing 10-20 minutes a game was effecting the game.
Its not the bottom six. Its the top nine. Always has been. The Oilers don't have enough players who can play against oppositions top lines. Can Taylor Hall score points? Yes of course. Can Jordan Eberle score points? Of course. Can the outscore the opposition's best players? Can they play against Thornton-Marleau or Sedin-Sedin or Ovechkin-Backstrom and outscore them?
No they can't.
Should we trade them then?
Of course not. In time, I have faith that they will develop and will become strong two way players: RNH and Hall in particular. But that day is not today.
2) The same thing for the Oilers defense. The Oilers are overplaying Justin Schultz, Jeff Petry, and to a lesser extent - Anton Belov. These guys are still pretty new to the quality at the NHL level. MacT had the right idea in picking up Ference as a solid veteran defender. The Oilers need to protect Justin Schultz give him less EV minutes, against weaker opposition.
1) I didn't believe our problem last year was solely the Oilers bottom six forwards. It became an argument the idiotic media bandwagon jumped on. But it makes no logical sense that forwards who were playing 6-10 minutes a game was causing the Oilers to lose more than the top six players playing 10-20 minutes a game was effecting the game.
Its not the bottom six. Its the top nine. Always has been. The Oilers don't have enough players who can play against oppositions top lines. Can Taylor Hall score points? Yes of course. Can Jordan Eberle score points? Of course. Can the outscore the opposition's best players? Can they play against Thornton-Marleau or Sedin-Sedin or Ovechkin-Backstrom and outscore them?
No they can't.
Should we trade them then?
Of course not. In time, I have faith that they will develop and will become strong two way players: RNH and Hall in particular. But that day is not today.
2) The same thing for the Oilers defense. The Oilers are overplaying Justin Schultz, Jeff Petry, and to a lesser extent - Anton Belov. These guys are still pretty new to the quality at the NHL level. MacT had the right idea in picking up Ference as a solid veteran defender. The Oilers need to protect Justin Schultz give him less EV minutes, against weaker opposition.
Its not physicality people. Crap - where do you guys come up with this stuff?
How does having Chris Neil, or Steve MacIntyre or bleeding George Laraques in his prime, do anything against Phil Kessel and his four points last night, or Alex Ovechkin scoring?
The Oilers already added Luke Gadzic and it hasn't changed anything.
The Oilers added Mike Brown last year, and it didn't change anything.
How does having Chris Neil, or Steve MacIntyre or bleeding George Laraques in his prime, do anything against Phil Kessel and his four points last night, or Alex Ovechkin scoring?
The Oilers already added Luke Gadzic and it hasn't changed anything.
The Oilers added Mike Brown last year, and it didn't change anything.
CornKicker
Holland is wrong..except all of the good things
- Feb 18, 2005
- 11,785
- 2,972
im jumping on this boat as well. mortgage a bit of the long term future for probably the best all around dman in teh game and a perfect mentor for Nurse.
DarkSaturn
Registered User
- Sep 10, 2008
- 540
- 33
With this team... you guys are crazy.
Weber would injure 1/3 of the roster every game with his slap shot.
I see people say this all the time and can't say I get it.
Hall: 68 G 85 A 153 P in 180 GP (0.85 points per game) to date 49 G 46 A 95 P in 126 GP in first two years (0.75 points per game)
RNH: 26 G 60 A 86 P in 114 GP (0.75 points per game)
Average to date: 147 GP, 0.8 points per game
Ignored Yak, because while it's too early to be writing any of these guys off, it's definitely too early to be tossing out judgement on Yak.
Tavares first two seasons: 53 G 68 A 123 P in 161 GP (0.76 points per game)
Kane first two seasons: 46G 96 A 142 P in 162 GP (0.87 points per game)
Stamkos first two seasons: 74 G 67 A 141 P in 161 GP (0.87 points per game)
Average GP: 161 GP, 0.83 points per game
In terms of points, they've been on par or better than Tavares, and not a ton behind Kane/Stamkos.
If you want to say our players have been less healthy, sure...
I question how they play at times, but Hall was 9th in NHL scoring last year, in his third season. 2nd leading scorer in the West.
a) Weber is going nowhere. That was sealed when Nashville signed the offer sheet and paid 1/3 of his contract in signing bonuses.
b) Not the best all around dman. Since Suter left he hasn't looked nearly as good and was a minus player for the first time since his sophomore year while Suter went on to be a Norris nominee...
CornKicker
Holland is wrong..except all of the good things
- Feb 18, 2005
- 11,785
- 2,972
lol come on man, that would imply we have players actually going to the front of the net.
Neil Hamburger
Five Bagger!
JVR (2), Kessel (5), Rielly (5), Kadri (7), Lupul (7), Phaneuf (9), Bernier (11), Gardiner (17), and Ashton (29)
9.
