Speculation: Whats next for Calgary ?

[SnipeNCelly]

Both actually

"BoTh aCTuaLly" ..case closed i guess huh

 

[Skolman]

Maybe if those examples weren’t on account of a single rogue vote (none of the players in your example were even top 10), it would constitute something worth considering. Poor counter argument.

Single rogue vote?

Uh, Markstrom had 2 more votes than DeAngelo when it came to voting

My point is, voting means s*** when you have a handful of votes. For all you know those 5 Markstrom votes were from Vancouver fanboys.

 

[Flamesfan62]

Explain exactly how Markstrom is a top 5 goalie, take the glasses off for it.

Numbers speak for themselves. If he’s not top 5 he’s very very close.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Single rogue vote?

Uh, Markstrom had 2 more votes than DeAngelo when it came to voting

My point is, voting means s*** when you have a handful of votes. For all you know those 5 Markstrom votes were from Vancouver fanboys.

Why would you compare between awards?

After Markstroms 5 votes the only other goalie to have more than a single rogue vote is Merzelkins with 2.

Sounds like you don’t have a point or argument other than you don’t like the Flames.

 

[Just Linda]

Not better than Vancouver? To recap they lost a top 6F, a top 4D, a top 6D and a top 5 NHL goalie who stole them more games then they’re willing to admit

Yep, I'm still pretty comfortable in predicting that they finish comfortably ahead of Calgary this season.

Same time though

1) Demko took the crease, they viewed him as the better option
2) They added a better dman, their D got slightly better
3) Yeah their forwards got worse

I don't think they are a better team than they were a month ago, I just think they are a better team than Calgary

 

[InfinityIggy]

Yep, I'm still pretty comfortable in predicting that they finish comfortably ahead of Calgary this season.

Same time though

1) Demko took the crease, they viewed him as the better option

You do realize the Canucks tried to bring Markstrom back, right? There is a reason they brought in a seasoned netminder in Holtby to replace him. This isn’t a comment on how good Demko might be, but an observation that the Canucks did not let Markstrom walk simply because they have Demko. They let him walk out of fear of exposing Demko in expansion.

 

[Skolman]

Why would you compare between awards?

After Markstroms 5 votes the only other goalie to have more than a single rogue vote is Merzelkins with 2.

Sounds like you don’t have a point or argument other than you don’t like the Flames.

Your argument for Markstom being a top 5 goalie in the world is that he recieved 5 Vezina votes this past season

But ya sure pal. Let's not look at his actual numbers between the pipes.

 

[Just Linda]

You do realize the Canucks tried to bring Markstrom back, right? There is a reason they brought in a seasoned netminder in Holtby to replace him. This isn’t a comment on how good Demko might be, but an observation that the Canucks did not let Markstrom walk simply because they have Demko. They let him walk out of fear of exposing Demko in expansion.

I can't see how anyone would look at a Demko/Holtby tandem and think that there's even the slightest whisper of doubt in that crease. Even losing Markstrom (who was their second best goalie in the playoffs), that team in fine in net.

Markstrom is a starter but I have him top 25 not top 5.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I think losing Brodie is going to hurt a lot more than people expect.

I don’t think he is top 5 myself, but he did literally just finish 4th in Vezina voting. There is an argument to be made.

I don't put a lot of stock into voting.

He was 15th last year in sv% above expected (min 30 gp)
Here are his ranks the last 3 years:

22nd in 17-18
24th in 18-19
15th in 19-20

He's 25th in GSAA/60 over the past 3 years (min 3000 mins) despite getting less rush attempts/60 than almost any other goalie.

There is no justification for him as a top 5 goalie. His performance over the last few years screams mediocre.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Numbers speak for themselves. If he’s not top 5 he’s very very close.

What numbers justify him as close to the top 5?

 

[Iggys Dome]

I’ll take Canucks fans opinions on him the past couple years over the stat watchers in this thread, he’s been their unanimous MVP the past couple seasons and the Canucks are a basement team without him dragging them to the 2nd round this year. It’s not even me saying this, check what Canucks fans have been saying about him since 2018. I don’t think Markstrom is a top 5 goaltender personally, but to say he is mediocre is absolutely ridiculous.

The Canucks are one of the worst defensive teams in the NHL, Marky bailed them out time and time again this year. If you look past the basic stats of GAA and sv%, Markstrom was undoubtedly elite this year. And has been elite since 2018 IMO. But hey, I’m just a flames fan who has suffered through Smith/Talbot/Elliott/Johnson/Rittich since 2017.

 

[Iggys Dome]

@WhiskeyYourTheDevils @Sick Nuzuki @Skolman

“On clear-sighted shots, ones where he’s set up in his stance and he’s got clear vision of the shot, he’s the best goalie in the league,” said Steve Valiquette, former NHL goaltender and CEO of CSA, back in March. “If I was doing the Vezina Trophy voting, I would have him at the top of my list.”
“He’s stolen 8 games for the Vancouver Canucks this year,” he added. “Flat-out stolen 8 games and that’s the most of any goalie in the NHL. He’s conservatively, by my measure, given the Canucks 15 additional points in the standings.”
Based on the quality of shots he faced, Markstrom’s save percentage on the shots they tracked should have been .891. Instead, his save percentage was .907, a difference of 1.59% (.016). That’s a massive swing and better than any other goaltender in the NHL this season.

By the reckoning of CSA, the number of goals Markstrom saved the Canucks wasn’t 11.56 like GSAA would suggest, but 20.16. That’s second behind only Connor Hellebuyck, who played 15 more games than Markstrom.
According to CSA, Markstrom wasn’t just good this season, he was the best goaltender in the entire NHL. Troy Stecher said it best: “It’s absolutely mindboggling to me that [Markstrom] wasn’t a Vezina candidate.”

source: Vancouver Canucks 2019-20 Report Card: Jacob Markstrom - Vancouver Is Awesome

Maybe he's not top 5, but he's certainly close. He also dealt with some personal issues this season with this father passing away due to cancer, he had to leave the team twice.

 

[Skolman]

I’ll take Canucks fans opinions on him the past couple years over the stat watchers in this thread, he’s been their unanimous MVP the past couple seasons and the Canucks are a basement team without him dragging them to the 2nd round this year. It’s not even me saying this, check what Canucks fans have been saying about him since 2018. I don’t think Markstrom is a top 5 goaltender personally, but to say he is mediocre is absolutely ridiculous.

The Canucks are one of the worst defensive teams in the NHL, Marky bailed them out time and time again this year. If you look past the basic stats of GAA and sv%, Markstrom was undoubtedly elite this year. And has been elite since 2018 IMO. But hey, I’m just a flames fan who has suffered through Smith/Talbot/Elliott/Johnson/Rittich since 2017.

I don't quite understand why Flames fans believe goaltending was their biggest issue this past season.

The Markstrom signing isn't one of those moves that will improve Calgary significantly, you can quote me at the end of the year on this.

For the record I don’t believe Markstom is "mediocre", he's certainly not a top 5 goalie though.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Your argument for Markstom being a top 5 goalie in the world is that he recieved 5 Vezina votes this past season

But ya sure pal. Let's not look at his actual numbers between the pipes.

Maybe go back and read my first reply. His actual numbers only make the argument stronger.

 

[Iggys Dome]

I don't quite understand why Flames fans believe goaltending was their biggest issue this past season.

The Markstrom signing isn't one of those moves that will improve Calgary significantly, you can quote me at the end of the year on this.

For the record I don’t believe Markstom is "mediocre", he's certainly not a top 5 goalie though.

I honestly can't blame Treliving for going after a Vezina-calibre goalie in his prime, he swung big and time will tell if it's going to be worth it, but we haven't had a goalie that's been able to reliably start 50-60 games since Kipper. Markstrom can be that guy. We could have re-signed Talbot and I would have been just fine going into the season with Talbot/Rittich, but considering Edmonton and Vancouver were also heavily rumoured to be after Markstrom this off-season I'm just fine with the move. If it blows up in Tre's face, oh well. He swung for the fences and who can blame him. We had the cap space to go after a marquee free agent and we addressed a position of need ( a bonafide #1 goaltender) since 2013. Who can blame him?

 

[blankall]

The Flames will wait until the deeadline to address their forwards issues.

A lot of people also seem to be conveniently forgetting the Flames lost Tkachuk for the Dallas series.

My guess is they wait until the deadline to see how Valimaki and Andersson actually perform. Then they move out a dman for a top 6 RW. At which point the Flames will have made upgrades at goalie, defence, and forward.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I can't see how anyone would look at a Demko/Holtby tandem and think that there's even the slightest whisper of doubt in that crease. Even losing Markstrom (who was their second best goalie in the playoffs), that team in fine in net.

Markstrom is a starter but I have him top 25 not top 5.

I'm not saying there are doubts with the tandem (although how Holtby does will be interesting to follow), I am pointing out the fact they tried to bring Markstrom back. So they assertion the "let him go because Demko is the better option" isn't accurate. In a perfect world for Jim Benning, he still has Markstrom.

 

[Flameshomer]

I think losing Brodie is going to hurt a lot more than people expect.


I don't put a lot of stock into voting.

He was 15th last year in sv% above expected (min 30 gp)
Here are his ranks the last 3 years:

22nd in 17-18
24th in 18-19
15th in 19-20

He's 25th in GSAA/60 over the past 3 years (min 3000 mins) despite getting less rush attempts/60 than almost any other goalie.

There is no justification for him as a top 5 goalie. His performance over the last few years screams mediocre.

You once used stats to try and "prove" that Jankowski was better than Monahan.

I literally can't wait to rub your face in Brodie getting absolutely owned without anyone to clean up after him in Toronto. You are one of the best on this site in putting your foot in your mouth and shoving your own head up you ass. It will be glorious to watch the twists and turns you put yourself through afterwards to try and rationalize. You have the integrity of David Staples.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

@WhiskeyYourTheDevils @Sick Nuzuki @Skolman

source: Vancouver Canucks 2019-20 Report Card: Jacob Markstrom - Vancouver Is Awesome

Maybe he's not top 5, but he's certainly close. He also dealt with some personal issues this season with this father passing away due to cancer, he had to leave the team twice.

Natural stat trick has him 11th in GSAA and moneypuck has him 15th in sv% above expected, and this all during his best statistical season on record. Look across the past 3 years and he falls off even more.

 

[iFan]

Not better than Vancouver? To recap they lost a top 6F, a top 4D, a top 6D and a top 5 NHL goalie who stole them more games then they’re willing to admit

Without the trade last night, I would agree with you that the Flames are better as that hole in the top 4 would’ve been too big but adding in a top pairing D man that can move the puck more than fills that hole.

Markstrom was outstanding for us! There should be no doubts about that! And Demko likely has learning curves to go through on his path to becoming a starting goalie but he looks ready. He’s had huge potential since he was drafted and he’s been living up to it ever since, he stoned walled Vegas! Van had to make a choice Demko or Markstrom, we couldn’t keep both as one would’ve been plucked by Seattle.

Also, guys like Petterson, Boeser, Horvat and Hughes should only get better as well. I think the Flames and Canucks are pretty equal, I wouldn’t say one is better than the other. The Flames would be the safer pick but Canucks have a lot more potential IMO.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You once used stats to try and "prove" that Jankowski was better than Monahan.

I literally can't wait to rub your face in Brodie getting absolutely owned without anyone to clean up after him in Toronto. You are one of the best on this site in putting your foot in your mouth and shoving your own head up you ass. It will be glorious to watch the twists and turns you put yourself through afterwards to try and rationalize. You have the integrity of David Staples.

GTFO of here with your personal attacks. Really shows what you're all about when you go after the poster and not the content.

Have I been wrong before? Of course, who hasn't. But you'll have to quote me on the claim you made above. Do I think Monahan is terribly overrated and gets destroyed when asked to center his own line? Yes.

 

[23Monahan]

Thread title: what's next for Calgary?

Everyone: argue about moves they have already made lol

I would like to see them add a solid center or rw, I don't have confidence in the exact same forward core. Maybe anothe depth defence in case valinaki goes down or just to bolster our point after losing a few pieces. If we bring in a center maybe we could trade Ryan to free up a few mil.

Either way I hope treliving isn't done, this team isnt a cup winner

 

[Flameshomer]

GTFO of here with your personal attacks. Really shows what you're all about when you go after the poster and not the content.

Have I been wrong before? Of course, who hasn't. But you'll have to quote me on the claim you made above. Do I think Monahan is terribly overrated and gets destroyed when asked to center his own line? Yes.

I'm just keeping you honest. You act all high and mighty like you can't possibly wrong, sometimes you need to be reminded that you were in fact very very wrong multiple times. You can't keep acting like you always know something other posters don't without expecting your failures to be presented to you when they come to roost.

 

[SnipeNCelly]

Thread title: what's next for Calgary?

Everyone: argue about moves they have already made lol

I would like to see them add a solid center or rw, I don't have confidence in the exact same forward core. Maybe anothe depth defence in case valinaki goes down or just to bolster our point after losing a few pieces. If we bring in a center maybe we could trade Ryan to free up a few mil.

Either way I hope treliving isn't done, this team isnt a cup winner

Haha every post usually ends with people arguing and hating on a team they don't cheer for ... but I agree with you I think a top 6 piece would be refreshing for the flames . I would also like to take a stab at vatanen if the price is right

 

[Volica]

They have something in the cooker.
I expect things to happen in the coming weeks, after the dust settles on Free Agency and teams know where they're at.

The teams that missed out on Hall, and subsequently the remaining mid-tier forward free agents will look at trade to improve their team. Calgary has a wealth of already greet and additional potential top 6 forwards throughout the lineup; it's an area of strength for this team.

That all being said, I like the moves they've made in free agency. Also, this thread is the purest example of how advanced stats are used on this forum. Find a couple that prove your point then slam others who disagree, disregard the ones that don't fit your narrative.