Speculation: What's going on with Judd Brackett?

Status
Not open for further replies.

drax0s

Registered User
Mar 18, 2014
3,593
2,726
Vancouver, BC.
Not to repeat what MS said but neither of these things contradict the narrative and are exactly how Benning would behave even if things played out the way I described. Benning isn't going to nuke his career by going rogue on the draft floor and undermining his boss. Come on. Maybe Brian Burke does something like that. And nobody is saying that Benning thought Pettersson was crap. I'm sure Petey was his second or 3rd choice and he had loads of good things to say about him. Drafting is a collaborative effort, and just because Benning behaved professionally on the draft floor and said the right things doesn't contradict that it was very likely Linden's call to let Brackett make his pick over a player Benning preferred.
You have comments from Linden that giving talented people autonomy and trust to do their job is important, and semi-cryptic quotes from Linden that you can't rely on "someone who sees enough games to make themselves dangerous" / "sees players once or twice". From that you've somehow decided that Benning wanted Glass and Linden overruled Benning in Judd's favor. I can see the threads of how you got there, but I think you're overlooking things.
I'm curious how you would expect Benning to behave if you disagree? You think he pouts and boycotts the draft if he doesn't get his way? I don't like Benning but I don't think he's a baby.
So I just watched the replay of the Canucks picks for the 2017, 2018 and 2019 draft. TBH, there's very little difference in Benning's mannerisms - he looks like a day old fish in a cheap suit year after year. I'd actually be hard pressed to find someone who looks more uncomfortable in a situation. What IS different, however is who doesn't go to the podium in 2017. John f***ing Weisbrod. He's sitting there POUTING with his arms crossed having a hissy fit while everyone goes up to make the pick (2017). EVERY OTHER YEAR he goes up to make the pick. (see 2018, 2019). 2017 is different not because of Benning, but because of Weisbrod.

VYCONPh.png


So yeah. If I were a betting man - with Linden's comments and Weisbrod's body language - Weisbrod was pushing very hard for Glass. Weisbrod saw Glass dominate a single game against Switzerland (prev post, and remember what Linden said about a manager seeing one or two games and being dangerous) and is absolutely sulking during the draft as the rest of the team goes up to make the pick. I think Linden probably did encourage Benning to trust his scouts instead of his AGM, but I'm pretty sure Weisbrod is the root.
 

mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,022
9,942
Sounds about right. Linden blaming others for his failures again
No shit eh?

With that quote, Linden reveals that he knows as much about hockey as those HFBoards posters that continue to maintain that Gilly left Jimbo with nothing.

What a hard situation to walk into. Being gifted a first line with two first ballot HHOF players, a starting goaltender and a blue chip elite 2c trade asset that is under contract for another couple years at an extremely cap friendly salary.

Trev.. just stop talking and walk away. Srs.
 

mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,022
9,942
You have comments from Linden that giving talented people autonomy and trust to do their job is important, and semi-cryptic quotes from Linden that you can't rely on "someone who sees enough games to make themselves dangerous" / "sees players once or twice". From that you've somehow decided that Benning wanted Glass and Linden overruled Benning in Judd's favor. I can see the threads of how you got there, but I think you're overlooking things.

So I just watched the replay of the Canucks picks for the 2017, 2018 and 2019 draft. TBH, there's very little difference in Benning's mannerisms - he looks like a day old fish in a cheap suit year after year. I'd actually be hard pressed to find someone who looks more uncomfortable in a situation. What IS different, however is who doesn't go to the podium in 2017. John ****ing Weisbrod. He's sitting there POUTING with his arms crossed having a hissy fit while everyone goes up to make the pick (2017). EVERY OTHER YEAR he goes up to make the pick. (see 2018, 2019). 2017 is different not because of Benning, but because of Weisbrod.

VYCONPh.png


So yeah. If I were a betting man - with Linden's comments and Weisbrod's body language - Weisbrod was pushing very hard for Glass. Weisbrod saw Glass dominate a single game against Switzerland (prev post, and remember what Linden said about a manager seeing one or two games and being dangerous) and is absolutely sulking during the draft as the rest of the team goes up to make the pick. I think Linden probably did encourage Benning to trust his scouts instead of his AGM, but I'm pretty sure Weisbrod is the root.
Nice detective work.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,626
5,890
I think some people might be engaging in confirmation bias.

What was reported makes no mention of Benning—only that the scouts liked Pettersson. This does not preclude Benning also liking him. It is possible for both of these things to coexist, even independent of one another.

Exactly. But somehow the usual Benning haters want to spin the narrative into one that fits their usual narrative since the team is winning and their "small sample size" and "luck" argument is simply being ignored and not getting the usual likes.
 

vanuck

Now with 100% less Benning!
Dec 28, 2009
16,797
4,012
You have a lower bar for iron clad facts than I do, I guess. Here's what I've seen as facts so far...
  • Benning pointed out Pettersson in the stands to Brackett at the draft. (This may have blown a trade down scenario with Vegas). He was also concerned that if he moved down too far he wouldn't "get his guy" - I think Benning clearly wanted Pettersson at the draft and was a bit enamored with him. (Canucks behind the scenes draft video)
  • Benning said (I paraphrase) "I couldn't keep his eyes off Pettersson when he watched him - he always seemed to make something happen"
  • Linden said (again paraphrasing) "there was some heated discussion about who to draft in 2017. Brackett wanted Pettersson, others wanted Glass".
  • Delorme was the first one to see Pettersson. Gradin spoke highly of Pettersson.
  • Linden said (I paraphrase) "I think giving people on your team the autonomy to make decisions is important." and talked about how Brackett was the driving force behind the Pettersson pick. He also mentioned something like "it was important not to allow people who have seen kids once or twice to overrule people who have seen kids play over the course of the year".
Things that are inferred:
  • Did Benning actually want to draft Glass?
  • Who actually wanted Glass?
Personally, I'm speculating it was Weisbrod. Weisbrod watched Glass light up Switzerland at the IIHF in 2017 when watching Nico. Linden specifically mentioned that he thinks its important to listen to the guys who watch players play multiple times a year instead of someone who sees them once or twice. As for whether Benning would've drafted Glass or Pettersson - no clue. Actually don't have enough info to go on there. And before the "benning bro" **** comes up - It's a clear as day black mark for Benning that Weisbrod hasn't been canned because he's useless and if he lets go of Brackett - huge mistake.

Where were the bolded parts from? I didn't see his latest interview so I was wondering if it might be same one where he mentioned the whole giving Brackett autonomy bit.
 

drax0s

Registered User
Mar 18, 2014
3,593
2,726
Vancouver, BC.
Where were the bolded parts from? I didn't see his latest interview so I was wondering if it might be same one where he mentioned the whole giving Brackett autonomy bit.
Trevor Linden on his relationship now with the Canucks & Jim Benning - Sportsnet.ca

Line of questioning starts at 7:05. He's asked a bit of a leading question at first, but his relevant answer is at 7:30. I'm pretty sure he's talking about Weisbrod after seeing everything else. Full quote below:

Linden on 650:
I think the last thing you want is someone who sees enough games just to make themselves dangerous, and you see a lot of managers say that - you know you can't see a kid once or twice throughout the course of the 6 or 7 month season for these young kids - keep in mind, the kids at the start of the year - these draft eligibles from their first tournament at the Hlinka perhaps, or early in the season in September, they change physically, they change mentally, they mature throughout the seven months of the season - what you see at the start of the year may look very different in April when you see them in playoffs or May at the Memorial Cup. My biggest thing with that department was to allow the guys who were seeing 200 games a year and have the full book of business on players to make those decisions.
 
Last edited:

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,626
5,890
Literally every important scout (Gradin, Delorme, Hammarstrom) is documented as being in support of the pick in addition to Linden and Brackett.

Benning himself has commented on the 'huge internal divide' about the pick.

Do the math.

If Benning, Brackett, Gradin, and Delorme were all on the same page, why in the hell would Linden be stepping in to give Brackett autonomy to pick his guy?

Have you found the type of documentation you are asking for here that Bening was in support of any 1st round pick he has drafted besides a behind the scenes video clip of Benning saying he doesn't think Boeser would fall to the Canucks? Benning had some great things to say about Petey before and after the draft too and fit into the profile of the "playmaking C" he was looking for. Of course his happiest was when he drafted Hughes.

Maybe you should recheck your math.

Again, why are you giving Linden so much credibility when in the past you didn't? How often do you here GMs talk about letting their scouts make the pick? I suppose when Linden said there was a healthy debate you took it as every single scout vs Jim and John? :rolleyes:
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
I think some people might be engaging in confirmation bias.

What was reported makes no mention of Benning—only that the scouts liked Pettersson. This does not preclude Benning also liking him. It is possible for both of these things to coexist, even independent of one another.

Wrong, and I have explained this to you elsewhere. Linden was very clear in saying he gave the scouts the autonomy to make the pick.

Autonomy:
noun
  1. the right or condition of self-government

Why would he say he gave the scouts autonomy to make that pick if everyone else was on board? And if Benning was on board with the pick, and all the scouts clearly were, then who would be the dissenting opinion?

I think people need to stop closing their eyes to things that show Benning in a bad light, and start looking at the evidence.
 

Frankie Blueberries

Allergic to draft picks
Jan 27, 2016
9,095
10,545
I think some people might be engaging in confirmation bias.

What was reported makes no mention of Benning—only that the scouts liked Pettersson. This does not preclude Benning also liking him. It is possible for both of these things to coexist, even independent of one another.

100% confirmation bias runs rampant on here from both sides. I don't take much issue with that, it's human nature and most people can't be very objective (especially on a subject that can be as emotional as your favourite sports team).

The issue to me is that the confirmation bias is exacerbated by each side antagonizing each other. This happens when some posters purposefully (or ignorantly) mischaracterize the opposing argument in a disingenuous effort to get a cheap 'win' an argument. It's no longer about discussing the issues and the merits to each side. It's about who can take the petty moral high ground and try to frame the others as stupid (the tank crowd always being labelled as 'negative', like come on, we know people only want to tank for the long-term success of the team). It's like people view their opinions as long-term investments where they are scared to change their mind in light of new evidence, and this is intensified by holding personal vendettas against certain posters. It's like high school for some people lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chairman Maouth

drax0s

Registered User
Mar 18, 2014
3,593
2,726
Vancouver, BC.
Sure, throw him in there too. But by the same token, how can you claim it's Weisbrod but not Benning too?
Several posts ago, but I'll post a summary with links.
  • Weisbrod was in attendance scouting Hischier at the u18 IIHF against Canada. Glass ripped that game up, scoring 2 goals and 1 assist.

    http://reports.iihf.hockey/Hydra/506/IHM506A13_74_6_0.pdf
  • Linden specifically mentioned people who have seen "enough games to make themselves dangerous" and seeing kids "once or twice", and instead trusting the scouts who have seen 200 games and have the full book on players.
  • Weisbrod sits out the 2017 draft and refuses to go up on stage when Pettersson is drafted, instead sitting there with his arms crossed. He does go up on stage in 2018 and 2019 though.
    VYCONPh.png

  • Similarly in the 2017 behind the scenes video, Weisbrod seems to get testy at Judd for wanting to trade down to get extra picks. I called this out earlier as seeming like a power struggle. Benning seems to be consulting both of them.

Why not lump Benning in there? Lack of evidence, really. In the video he seems to be consulting his team, listening to Brackett, etc. Lots of fingers pointing at Wormtongue Weisbrod.
 

Hoghandler

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
1,921
930
Wrong, and I have explained this to you elsewhere. Linden was very clear in saying he gave the scouts the autonomy to make the pick.

Autonomy:
noun
  1. the right or condition of self-government

Why would he say he gave the scouts autonomy to make that pick if everyone else was on board?

I believe Linden is looking to take responsibility for the Pettersson pick, but...

Trevor Linden just parroted back Satiar Shah’s statement word for word.

Did you listen to the interview?
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
Several posts ago, but I'll post a summary with links.
  • Weisbrod was in attendance scouting Hischier at the u18 IIHF against Canada. Glass ripped that game up, scoring 2 goals and 1 assist.

    http://reports.iihf.hockey/Hydra/506/IHM506A13_74_6_0.pdf
  • Linden specifically mentioned people who have seen "enough games to make themselves dangerous" and seeing kids "once or twice", and instead trusting the scouts who have seen 200 games and have the full book on players.
  • Weisbrod sits out the 2017 draft and refuses to go up on stage when Pettersson is drafted, instead sitting there with his arms crossed. He does go up on stage in 2018 and 2019 though.
    VYCONPh.png

  • Similarly in the 2017 behind the scenes video, Weisbrod seems to get testy at Judd for wanting to trade down to get extra picks. I called this out earlier as seeming like a power struggle. Benning seems to be consulting both of them.

Why not lump Benning in there? Lack of evidence, really. In the video he seems to be consulting his team, listening to Brackett, etc. Lots of fingers pointing at Wormtongue Weisbrod.


I will concede for sure that Weisbrod was probably against the Pettersson pick, but I don't see any evidence that suggests Benning also wasn't. I see it as he was overruled by his boss and simply went with it. And for those of you who like to toot the horn that Benning has just been doing whatever pleases the Aquilini's, then that same standard should apply here to him trying to appease his boss Linden, right?
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
I believe Linden is looking to take responsibility for the Pettersson pick, but...

Trevor Linden just parroted back Satiar Shah’s statement word for word.

Did you listen to the interview?

Yes I did. And what Linden stated is consistent with the rumours that have been floating online for the past couple years. If there was no truth to it he had a chance to squash it. He could have even said it was a team decision. No, instead he clearly said he gave the scouts the autonomy to make the pick. Why do that if the GM is on the same page and is going to make the same pick anyway?
 

drax0s

Registered User
Mar 18, 2014
3,593
2,726
Vancouver, BC.
I will concede for sure that Weisbrod was probably against the Pettersson pick, but I don't see any evidence that suggests Benning also wasn't. I see it as he was overruled by his boss and simply went with it. And for those of you who like to toot the horn that Benning has just been doing whatever pleases the Aquilini's, then that same standard should apply here to him trying to appease his boss Linden, right?
Sorry, are you saying that the lack of evidence against Benning being against Pettersson means he was against Pettersson? First off, that's terrible logic. Second, there are a lot of small hints that Benning was either impartial, or liked Pettersson.
  • First - he drafted him. When you have your AGM clearly pushing for a specific player and throwing a tantrum about it and you pick him anyways - that's an endorsement.
  • Second - in the draft video - he kind of fanboys about him. He lets his name slip a bunch of times, points him out in the crowd. He's legit excited about him.
  • Third - he was afraid of losing him. You don't get afraid of losing something you're not a fan of.
  • Fouth - His comments about watching Pettersson. (source)
    Benning couldn’t take his eyes off him. “Every time he touched the puck, he made something happen,” recalled Benning. “That’s the first thing that jumped out at me — his ability and vision to see where everybody was. And with the accurate release on his shot, he didn’t take much time and could rip it.”
I mean it's still possible he was against the pick, but no actual facts I've seen suggest that position.

And before you get into all the Benning bro crap - does this make Benning a good GM? Nope. I think Brackett deserves the credit here.
 

iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
7,602
3,959
Sorry, are you saying that the lack of evidence against Benning being against Pettersson means he was against Pettersson? First off, that's terrible logic. Second, there are a lot of small hints that Benning was either impartial, or liked Pettersson.
  • First - he drafted him. When you have your AGM clearly pushing for a specific player and throwing a tantrum about it and you pick him anyways - that's an endorsement.
  • Second - in the draft video - he kind of fanboys about him. He lets his name slip a bunch of times, points him out in the crowd. He's legit excited about him.
  • Third - he was afraid of losing him. You don't get afraid of losing something you're not a fan of.
  • Fouth - His comments about watching Pettersson. (source)
    Benning couldn’t take his eyes off him. “Every time he touched the puck, he made something happen,” recalled Benning. “That’s the first thing that jumped out at me — his ability and vision to see where everybody was. And with the accurate release on his shot, he didn’t take much time and could rip it.”
I mean it's still possible he was against the pick, but no actual facts I've seen suggest that position.

And before you get into all the Benning bro crap - does this make Benning a good GM? Nope. I think Brackett deserves the credit here.
Thank you! You saved me from responding to the above post. And provided a much more comprehensive answer than my attempt would have provided.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chairman Maouth

tradervik

Hear no evil, see no evil, complain about it
Sponsor
Jun 25, 2007
2,330
2,406
I would take everything Linden says with a huge grain of salt. Like anyone who had a contentious departure from a job, he has an interest to make himself look good and to make the people behind his ouster look bad. He has also demonstrated the ability to tell a bald-faced lie with utmost sincerity on a live TV broadcast when he denied that he was about to be hired by the Canucks the day before it was announced by the Canucks.
 

4Twenty

Registered User
Dec 18, 2018
9,987
11,831
Several posts ago, but I'll post a summary with links.
  • Weisbrod was in attendance scouting Hischier at the u18 IIHF against Canada. Glass ripped that game up, scoring 2 goals and 1 assist.

    http://reports.iihf.hockey/Hydra/506/IHM506A13_74_6_0.pdf
  • Linden specifically mentioned people who have seen "enough games to make themselves dangerous" and seeing kids "once or twice", and instead trusting the scouts who have seen 200 games and have the full book on players.
  • Weisbrod sits out the 2017 draft and refuses to go up on stage when Pettersson is drafted, instead sitting there with his arms crossed. He does go up on stage in 2018 and 2019 though.
    VYCONPh.png

  • Similarly in the 2017 behind the scenes video, Weisbrod seems to get testy at Judd for wanting to trade down to get extra picks. I called this out earlier as seeming like a power struggle. Benning seems to be consulting both of them.

Why not lump Benning in there? Lack of evidence, really. In the video he seems to be consulting his team, listening to Brackett, etc. Lots of fingers pointing at Wormtongue Weisbrod.

1 tweet?

I wonder how Portland residents, Jim and his son live there, sided.

I would imagine the Benning’s would side with their go-to guy but that’s speculation. But I don’t imagine Trevor would have to step in if it was just Weisbrod. Wouldn’t make much sense.

This should make anyone everyone terrified IMO. They’re marginalizing the guy running the amateur draft so Weisbrod and Jim can get out and see more. Sounds like a terrible way to manage but here we are.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->