What's going on in the US? Part 4 [Mod note in OP]

[TaLoN]

MOD NOTE: Reminder, this is NOT a political forum, political discussions will result in post deletion and/or warnings. Also, this thread is about what is happening in the U.S., not the rest of the world, we already have a general thread to discuss everything else, please keep this thread on topic.

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[TaLoN]

Old thread -> What's going on in the US? Part 3 [Mod note in OP]

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[TaLoN]

U.S. secures 300 million doses of potential AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine

The United States has secured almost a third of the first 1 billion doses planned for AstraZeneca's experimental COVID-19 vaccine by pledging up to $1.2 billion, as world powers scramble for medicines to get their economies back to work.

After President Donald Trump demanded a vaccine, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) agreed to provide up to $1.2 billion to accelerate British drugmaker AstraZeneca's <AZN.L> vaccine development and secure 300 million doses for the United States.

"This contract with AstraZeneca is a major milestone in Operation Warp Speed's work toward a safe, effective, widely available vaccine by 2021," U.S. Health Secretary Alex Azar said. The first doses could be available in the United States as early as October, according to a statement from HHS.

The vaccine, previously known as ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and now as AZD1222, was developed by the University of Oxford and licensed to AstraZeneca. Immunity to the new coronavirus is uncertain and so the use of vaccines is unclear.

The U.S. deal allows a late-stage, or Phase III, clinical trial of the vaccine with 30,000 people in the United States.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I am not sure how one can ignore the promotion power of the POTUS, one that has a very strong following. He is promoting the drug, plain and simple, and so absolutely does influence the demand for the drug. Yes, there is supposed to be a safety barrier - the medical doctor - but it would be extremely naive to presume for that barrier to have infinite strength. Doctors are sometimes pestered, begged and threatened by particularly eager patients, and they do not always have the strength to stand their ground. I am not excusing the doctors here, but Trump as the promoter should not be excused for his role either. He has power and he wielded it irresponsibly.

Of course he can make people who support him believe the drug is useful, but half the country hates him too and they were all convinced it’s probably not working even before the studies.

But its not like Trump made the drug or its supposed effect up. The possible effect on Covid was suspected by doctors first and widely reported by a media as desperate for a wonder drug as he was. He was simply jumping on a bandwagon because it would have been damn convenient for him and for all of us. Was that wrong? Obviously. But its not his fault doctors tried the drug and it snowballed from there.

 

[Sojourn]

Of course he can make people who support him believe the drug is useful, but half the country hates him too and they were all convinced it’s probably not working even before the studies.

But its not like Trump made the drug or its supposed effect up. The possible effect on Covid was suspected by doctors first and widely reported by a media as desperate for a wonder drug as he was. He was simply jumping on a bandwagon because it would have been damn convenient for him and for all of us. Was that wrong? Obviously. But its not his fault doctors tried the drug and it snowballed from there.

The line between misinforming people and being optimistic isn't that fine.

 

[TaLoN]

Twin Cities nearing ICU capacity

Minnesota health officials call for caution after news of Twin Cities ICU beds filling up

The Minnesota Department of Health on Friday reported a record 233 patients with COVID-19 in ICU beds, but doctors and nurses said patients with other illnesses resulted in more than 95% of those beds in the Twin Cities to be filled.

 

[Sojourn]

Twin Cities nearing ICU capacity

Minnesota health officials call for caution after news of Twin Cities ICU beds filling up

Also a decent example of the benefit of putting elective surgeries on hold, when you're worried about having enough ICU beds. Hopefully they can balance that.

 

[TaLoN]

Also a decent example of the benefit of putting elective surgeries on hold, when you're worried about having enough ICU beds. Hopefully they can balance that.

They don't expect the peak here until July... but they are currently searching for the right balance between being open and restrictions to prevent exceeding capacities. They do have plans to expand capacities if needed, but this article is strictly talking about actual hospital ICU capacity still.

They shutdown we did, they claimed was to "buy time" and to "delay the peak" so they could get more resources in place beforehand.

 

[Pookie]

U.S. secures 300 million doses of potential AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine

While we continue to debate relaxing restrictions.... I wonder if people really understand that to eradicate this virus:

• they will have to get vaccinated?
• we will have to have a global eradication effort that would be coordinated by an International group.... the WHO.

If the above doesn’t happen, there will be free riders in our world that will play host to the virus to allow it to mutate.

It will become like the flu in that many strains will exist and we will have to play roulette every year to save lives. We will continually deal with painful death, outbreaks and closures.

It’s Small Pox or the Flu... choice is ours.

Brings up an important set of questions.

For example:

• if you tend to view the virus as media fear mongering and an assault on your liberties, will you take vaccine?
• Can you make vaccination a condition of returning to school? Work? Travel within country? Travel internationally?
• If the vaccine is developed in the USA, will Trump’s America First and Anti-Who blustering make it impossible to have a global eradication effort? What’s his off ramp to do the right thing?

 

[Milhouse40]

While we continue to debate relaxing restrictions.... I wonder if people really understand that to eradicate this virus:

• they will have to get vaccinated?
• we will have to have a global eradication effort that would be coordinated by an International group.... the WHO.

If the above doesn’t happen, there will be free riders in our world that will play host to the virus to allow it to mutate.

It will become like the flu in that many strains will exist and we will have to play roulette every year to save lives. We will continually deal with painful death, outbreaks and closures.

It’s Small Pox or the Flu... choice is ours.

Brings up an important set of questions.

For example:

• if you tend to view the virus as media fear mongering and an assault on your liberties, will you take vaccine?
• Can you make vaccination a condition of returning to school? Work? Travel within country? Travel internationally?
• If the vaccine is developed in the USA, will Trump’s America First and Anti-Who blustering make it impossible to have a global eradication effort? What’s his off ramp to do the right thing?

Well, we know the Trump administration stole away masks from other countries without giving a crap about the problems of others. So if they find a vaccine, I don't expect Trump to work for the good of humanity.

Having said that, i don't think China will do any favor to the US if they find a vaccine first either but things could change, by the time we have a working vaccine, Trump might not be in the White House anymore.

As for the people accepting to be vaccinated, it's something that won't be possible but i have faith that 70% of people are smart enough to know we need to do this to return to normal life which should be enough.

 

[Pookie]

As for the people accepting to be vaccinated, it's something that won't be possible but i have faith that 70% of people are smart enough to know we need to do this to return to normal life which should be enough.

I think the vaccination question is a debate on mandatory vs the approach we take with the flu shot.

Much like the way many countries treat some vaccines as a requirement to attend school, it could be mandated.

And a step down from countries mandating it, workplaces could require it as well. If you want to be employed in anything related to health care, your shots must be up to date.

I favour the mandatory route with global eradication efforts.

This thing then becomes a bad dream.

 

[SoCalFan]

feels like this re-opening in Texas went from 0 to 60 in the last week. while I was ok with a slow roll out on May 1st and feeling cautiously optimistic, this last week has made me feel like going back into isolation. I've been out working the last couple months and just this past week, traffic has quadrupled and stores are packed. went to get groceries a couple days ago and there were a few families in there without masks. all the individual shoppers and workers were masked. thank God they were the majority.

though I did go to my first restaurant last night to dine in and it was great. wish all restaurants could be this way all the time. people were generously spaced apart, no large groups, no one randomly waiting inside or outside, reservations only and a 1 hour time limit to complete our meal felt pretty safe. but that was at 25% capacity. not sure how I'll feel when we move to 50% here. still not making a habit of this, but it was nice to see firsthand that it wasn't a total shit show.

 

[The Burdened]

Emory, the largest healthcare system in Georgia, is hemorrhaging money due to COVID response and has furloughed 1,500 healthcare workers.

This comes days after WellStar, another major GA heathcare system, furloughed 1,000 healthcare workers.

Hate to see it.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

There are a lot of people in the US that believe that Bill Gates conspiracy about microchipping everyone with the vaccine..... I wish people would get the vaccine when it's ready but I never underestimate the stupidity of the average American..

New Yahoo News/YouGov poll shows coronavirus conspiracy theories spreading on the right may hamper vaccine efforts

 

[EichHart]

There are a lot of people in the US that believe that Bill Gates conspiracy about microchipping everyone with the vaccine..... I wish people would get the vaccine when it's ready but I never underestimate the stupidity of the average American..

New Yahoo News/YouGov poll shows coronavirus conspiracy theories spreading on the right may hamper vaccine efforts

I can see someone being hesitant to get a vaccine that is most assuredly going to be rushed considering the circumstances. But I can't believe people believe in the giant hoax of Bill Gates interview a few years ago. I see posts all the time on my FB about it.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I think the vaccination question is a debate on mandatory vs the approach we take with the flu shot.

Much like the way many countries treat some vaccines as a requirement to attend school, it could be mandated.

And a step down from countries mandating it, workplaces could require it as well. If you want to be employed in anything related to health care, your shots must be up to date.

I favour the mandatory route with global eradication efforts.

This thing then becomes a bad dream.

Mandatory isnt going to happen in the US or most other Western countries. You can mandate it for schools, for immigrants and other people who are under government oversight but theres no way to enforce it on the wider public.

 

[StrangeVision]

Of course he can make people who support him believe the drug is useful, but half the country hates him too and they were all convinced it’s probably not working even before the studies.

But its not like Trump made the drug or its supposed effect up. The possible effect on Covid was suspected by doctors first and widely reported by a media as desperate for a wonder drug as he was. He was simply jumping on a bandwagon because it would have been damn convenient for him and for all of us. Was that wrong? Obviously. But its not his fault doctors tried the drug and it snowballed from there.

Yes, it was. Trump's bluster on hydroxychloroquine led to a man dying.

So yes, unequivocally it was wrong. It's not even an argument. Trump's rhetoric on this drug literally got someone killed. Well, one that we know of. And it is absolutely his fault, no one else's. He did not have to claim there was a miracle drug for this virus, even if doctors suspected it could be effective. If he had taken this more seriously, listened to the science advisors, not been a f***ing moron about medical treatment, a man is likely still breathing today.

I can't believe people still defend that toilet person.

 

[Nineteen67]

Mandatory isnt going to happen in the US or most other Western countries. You can mandate it for schools, for immigrants and other people who are under government oversight but theres no way to enforce it on the wider public.

And they may decide not everyone will need it.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yes, it was. Trump's bluster on hydroxychloroquine led to a man dying.

So yes, unequivocally it was wrong. It's not even an argument. Trump's rhetoric on this drug literally got someone killed. Well, one that we know of. And it is absolutely his fault, no one else's. He did not have to claim there was a miracle drug for this virus, even if doctors suspected it could be effective. If he had taken this more seriously, listened to the science advisors, not been a f***ing moron about medical treatment, a man is likely still breathing today.

I can't believe people still defend that toilet person.

You may want to look into that fish bowl cleaner story a little deeper. Could be that our media was a little misleading and maybe derelict

 

[StrangeVision]

You may want to look into that fish bowl cleaner story a little deeper. Could be that our media was a little misleading and maybe derelict

It's always someone else's fault. Pathetic.

Edit: This is what our wonderful president is doing today,



Surely there's nothing better for the president of the United States to be doing than playing f***ing golf.

 

[Milhouse40]

It's one thing to not wear a mask but it's a whole different thing when people harassed someone who wear one.
There's a reason the biggest outbreak is in the US and it's not because of China, WHO, Obama or Bugs Bunny….



They are probably the one whining about their rights for not wearing one…..but people have the right to wear one too.

Make America Great Again they said.

 

[Pookie]

Mandatory isnt going to happen in the US or most other Western countries. You can mandate it for schools, for immigrants and other people who are under government oversight but theres no way to enforce it on the wider public.

Isn’t going to happen is a choice.

And not mandating it means living with a new strain annually.

If folks really want the economy ticking along with no speed bumps... that’s the cost.

 

[TooManyHumans]

I haven't been defending any positions. I have called Trump's talk about this drug and other things around this pandemic wrong and irresponsible.

You should have stopped there and not tried to defend the indefensible.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

You should have stopped there and not tried to defend the indefensible.

Its one thing to call his actions wrong, its crude political polemics to blame him for all possible negative effects of the drug’s authorized or private use.

 

[StrangeVision]

I haven't been defending any positions. I have called Trump's talk about this drug and other things around this pandemic wrong and irresponsible. But I made the futile attempt to rein in folks in trying to make partisan hay out of literally everything around this pandemic.

The possible benefits of this drug for Covid-19 were widely reported in the media before Trump ever mentioned it because it was suggested by researchers and medical professionals. See articles here:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid19-repurposed-treatments-drugs

Hydroxychloroquine for Potential Covid-19 Treatment

Hydroxychloroquine for the Treatment and Prevention of COVID-19

Clinical trials were begun and authorized by health organizations. In other words - it was a lead worth pursuing. Naturally the media were going to report it, naturally less cautious, less skeptical individuals were going to jump on it.

But if grown adults obtain it and take it on their own account then that is literally *on their own account* and no-one else is to blame unless you want to blame everyone who ever reported on the potential use of the medication . Of course, no-one even knows the details in those stories, but you may just as well blame the doctors in France who reported the positive result of their first trials as you could Donald Trump. But you hate Trump, so I get it, it's always on him, he's the devil and the world's biggest idiot somehow in one physical manifestation.

There are trials of all sorts of drugs. Trump was looking for a magic bullet and he found hyroxycholoroquine. Do you think we would be talking about this drug like this if he hadn't started talking about it during press conferences like it was a miracle drug? Of course not.

You know what a few people would be talking about? The number of trials that showed the adverse effects and ineffectiveness. But instead we have a significant number of people in this country touting hydroxychloroquine because their president keeps saying it's wonderful. Here's what Trump should have done, wait until the studies showed results, then gone public with his opinions on the drug. Why the hell is a shitty real estate tycoon giving medical advice in the first place? It makes no goddamn sense and a man f***ing died for it. He should know better, but clearly he doesn't and that is a problem.

You know, I'm all for being fair, but sometimes one side really is worse than the other. The existence of two sides does not make those sides equal.

“Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure,” the woman told NBC.

Arizona man dies after attempting to take Trump coronavirus 'cure'