What's going on in Sweden? Part 2

Seiza

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Feb 28, 2002
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And your posted death rate info (here) just got 54 times higher than what you said to us to begin with.. Did this new corrected info change your stance? Or you still going with the "I have no problem with the handling of the pandemic" ?

No I´m still okay with it, I have been working home since March and I keep away from crowded areas. I don´t visit any malls, restaurants or similar. In general, I don´t think the government did so bad, I blame people for not really listening. People just can´t seem to skip going skiing, traveling, eating out, shopping, and so on.
 
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blankall

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Jul 4, 2007
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Deaths have plummeted in Sweden. Any explanation? Or is the data not accurate?
A lot of it has to do with the way Sweden reports their cases/deaths. They don't report them daily. They go back and add in lumps. we likely don't have all the data out of Sweden for the last few weeks.
 

Snauen

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Dec 27, 2017
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No I´m still okay with it, I have been working home since March and I keep away from crowded areas. I don´t visit any malls, restaurants or similar. In general, I don´t think the government did so bad, I blame people for not really listening. People just can´t seem to skip going skiing, traveling, eating out, shopping, and so on.
You think people here are worse listeners than our nordic neighbours?

Me Im thinking of becoming an author. Im going to write either a more scientific book called. " In state of emergency - Sweden the dysfunctional country" or maybe if it was a part scary science fiction part reality book " Zombie-herd-land , run by Zombies, if you live there they want you t become one of them too, by herd- infection!."
 
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DowJones

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Aug 30, 2008
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You think people here are worse listeners than our nordic neighbours?

Me Im thinking of becoming an author. Im going to write either a more scientific book called. " In state of emergency - Sweden the dysfunctional country" or maybe if it was a part scary science fiction part reality book " Zombie-herd-land , run by Zombies, if you live there they want you t become one of them too, by herd- infection!."

And in the real world, Sweden’s excess death is amongst the lowest in Europe:

Sveriges överdödlighet bland de lägre i Europa
 
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Snauen

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Dec 27, 2017
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And in the real world, Sweden’s excess death is amongst the lowest in Europe:

Sveriges överdödlighet bland de lägre i Europa
Read your quoted article about excess deaths. You having a reading comprehension problem? It says "-Sweden worst by far amongst Nordic countries" in excess deaths last year.. They talk about many European countries "catching up" to Sweden during the last wave. Sweden was amongst the worst in deaths in the spring 2020, we all know that. The other countries that "caught up" to Sweden atleast managed to keep the correlative people that died in Sweden imediately, alive for atleast half a year longer in general. Sweden screwed up no matter how you try to screw history.
 
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DowJones

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Aug 30, 2008
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Read your quoted article about excess deaths. You having a reading comprehension problem? It says "-Sweden worst by far amongst Nordic countries" in excess deaths last year.. They talk about many European countries "catching up" to Sweden during the last wave. Sweden was amongst the worst in deaths in the spring 2020, we all know that. The other countries that "caught up" to Sweden atleast managed to keep the correlative people that died in Sweden imediately, alive for atleast half a year longer in general. Sweden screwed up no matter how you try to screw history.

Again, Sweden’s excess death rate is among the 1/3 lowest in Europe. There is no way you can spin this, just give up.
 

Snauen

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Dec 27, 2017
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Ok I give up. Time to move on. Nothing to see here. Circulate!. All hail to the Dow Jones
Edit; parental warning, This post is sarcastic
 
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feffan

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Sep 9, 2010
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Malmö
And more on the subject from the most serious medical magazine in Sweden, reported in january - but still not wide spread in the national news. I guess that´s saved for when this is over:
Överdödligheten 2020 tyder på lägre dödstal i covid-19 - Dagens Medicin

A passage in the article describes the swedish bureactraic mentality that has us documentating probably more cases than just about any country in the world:
"In the Public Health Agency's statistics, which are updated Tuesday – Friday, all those who have had a covid diagnosis and died up to 30 days after the diagnosis. In this register, therefore, deaths of persons with established covid-19, but who have been run over by a bus, may be registered."

And from the first article, to people still comparing the Nordic countries:
"Another interesting pattern can be seen in the Nordic countries, he points out. During the most recent major disease outbreaks - the Asian (1957), the Hong Kong flu (1968) and the severe flu in 1976 - Sweden, together with Denmark, has mostly been hit harder than Norway, Iceland and Finland."

So it will be interesting to see how Denmark this time could stick out so much in a positive mather. Something that won´t be proparly analyzed for a few years I guess. For example, movement patterns early seemed to indicate that swedish and danish people behaved just about the same. And later on sweden has sometimes had harder restrictions, even if the international press hasn´t really covered that. Don´t now if Denmark has as many people now moving past 80 as Sweden does? We haven´t since been close to the birth numbers of the WW2 even if we´re today 4 million more people (6,3 then, 10,3 now...). So in the next 10 years it has been predicted that our death tolls per year will rise dramatically even without Corona. Probably spike in 5-10 years. Too add, outside elder people we can see that people from lower economical stands have been hit harder. A great deal of deaths have been among the foreig-born people who work in elder care, as janitors, assistant nurses and so who haven´t been able to work from home. And where leaving in smaller homes with more people is more common than the swedish middle class. So economical situation is probably a driving facture here as well. Especially since most people got corona at work or home: Tegnell: De flesta smittas hemma eller på jobbet

In the end, we lost around 6000 more lives in 2020 than any other year during the 2010´s. If the elder care hadn´t been dismantled by just about all different goverments the last 30 years we probably would had cut that dramatically. But Sweden has done better than almost every other western country. The last time we had this high death numbers (but actually 0,2% more of the population...) was after the swedish economic crisis in the early 90´s. Something to dwell upon for people who think economics still is just numbers we can shut down...
 

Snauen

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Dec 27, 2017
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And more on the subject from the most serious medical magazine in Sweden, reported in january - but still not wide spread in the national news. I guess that´s saved for when this is over:
Överdödligheten 2020 tyder på lägre dödstal i covid-19 - Dagens Medicin

A passage in the article describes the swedish bureactraic mentality that has us documentating probably more cases than just about any country in the world:
"In the Public Health Agency's statistics, which are updated Tuesday – Friday, all those who have had a covid diagnosis and died up to 30 days after the diagnosis. In this register, therefore, deaths of persons with established covid-19, but who have been run over by a bus, may be registered."

And from the first article, to people still comparing the Nordic countries:
"Another interesting pattern can be seen in the Nordic countries, he points out. During the most recent major disease outbreaks - the Asian (1957), the Hong Kong flu (1968) and the severe flu in 1976 - Sweden, together with Denmark, has mostly been hit harder than Norway, Iceland and Finland."

So it will be interesting to see how Denmark this time could stick out so much in a positive mather. Something that won´t be proparly analyzed for a few years I guess. For example, movement patterns early seemed to indicate that swedish and danish people behaved just about the same. And later on sweden has sometimes had harder restrictions, even if the international press hasn´t really covered that. Don´t now if Denmark has as many people now moving past 80 as Sweden does? We haven´t since been close to the birth numbers of the WW2 even if we´re today 4 million more people (6,3 then, 10,3 now...). So in the next 10 years it has been predicted that our death tolls per year will rise dramatically even without Corona. Probably spike in 5-10 years. Too add, outside elder people we can see that people from lower economical stands have been hit harder. A great deal of deaths have been among the foreig-born people who work in elder care, as janitors, assistant nurses and so who haven´t been able to work from home. And where leaving in smaller homes with more people is more common than the swedish middle class. So economical situation is probably a driving facture here as well. Especially since most people got corona at work or home: Tegnell: De flesta smittas hemma eller på jobbet

In the end, we lost around 6000 more lives in 2020 than any other year during the 2010´s. If the elder care hadn´t been dismantled by just about all different goverments the last 30 years we probably would had cut that dramatically. But Sweden has done better than almost every other western country. The last time we had this high death numbers (but actually 0,2% more of the population...) was after the swedish economic crisis in the early 90´s. Something to dwell upon for people who think economics still is just numbers we can shut down...
You think the "Swedish strategy" is some calculated masterminded plan for the economy? Wrong. The Swedish strategy is a bunch of non-decisions , spiced up with a boatload of staggering mistakes. Now though we are in the stage of "blame the people" for getting infected and history revisionism like you are practicing here. Its saddening, nothing will be learned from this with people like you. When a new and worse pandemic comes this bullshit will merely repeat itself here. Such an idiotic take and handeling of the matter.
 

Snauen

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Dec 27, 2017
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Norska uppmaningen till Sverige: Dags för självkritik

Norways cheif epidemiologist Frode Forland saying "-Time for some self-criticism in Sweden" refering to 622 deaths of Covid in Norway vs. 13628 deaths in Sweden. "-You have done it wrong/to little, especially in the begining in the spring" "-Its time to reflect over the hughe differences between the countries". Also Swedish professor in clinical microbiologi Fredrik Elg, stating that the failiure is all on Swedish chief epidemiologist Tegnell and his buddy Johan Giesecke.
 
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DuklaNation

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Aug 26, 2004
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Even accounting for a lag in deaths reported wouldn't be enough for a counter argument. I stated weeks ago that the issue was done. Nothing has changed in the interim period other than further cementing the viewpoint. The trend has been established.
 
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Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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Even accounting for a lag in deaths reported wouldn't be enough for a counter argument. I stated weeks ago that the issue was done. Nothing has changed in the interim period other than further cementing the viewpoint. The trend has been established.
With much of Sweden appearing to be through the pandemic (heard immunity?) will they need to vaccinate as much as other places?
 

Snauen

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Dec 27, 2017
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Even accounting for a lag in deaths reported wouldn't be enough for a counter argument. I stated weeks ago that the issue was done. Nothing has changed in the interim period other than further cementing the viewpoint. The trend has been established.
The deaths are going down cause they are vaccinating the older elderly. New cases are on a raise right now though, wave3 incoming. No herd-immunity in sight yet.

With much of Sweden appearing to be through the pandemic (heard immunity?) will they need to vaccinate as much as other places?
You might want to insert the words "wishfull thinking" there instead of "appearing"
 
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I am toxic

. . . even in small doses
Oct 24, 2014
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Norska uppmaningen till Sverige: Dags för självkritik

Norways cheif epidemiologist Frode Forland saying "-Time for some self-criticism in Sweden" refering to 622 deaths of Covid in Norway vs. 13628 deaths in Sweden. "-You have done it wrong/to little, especially in the begining in the spring" "-Its time to reflect over the hughe differences between the countries". Also Swedish professor in clinical microbiologi Fredrik Elg, stating that the failiure is all on Swedish chief epidemiologist Tegnell and his buddy Johan Giesecke.
This was obvious in the spring of 2020. And was discussed here at the time. None of this is hindsight.

Tegnell effed up, and virtually every position he took last spring has been discredited and reversed. As was pointed out should happen last spring.
 
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Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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With much of Sweden appearing to be through the pandemic (heard immunity?) will they need to vaccinate as much as other places?

Probably, alternatively you'd have to test the entire population for immunity and adjust accordingly, at this point offering the vaccine to everyone is easier.
 

DowJones

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Aug 30, 2008
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With much of Sweden appearing to be through the pandemic (heard immunity?) will they need to vaccinate as much as other places?

Yeah it will be offered to everyone, not limited to the ones who hasn’t had it yet. They are discussing if it will be sufficient with 1 shot if you had COVID though, so that might save some doses and speed things up.
 
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Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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The deaths are going down cause they are vaccinating the older elderly. New cases are on a raise right now though, wave3 incoming. No herd-immunity in sight yet.


You might want to insert the words "wishfull thinking" there instead of "appearing"
Looks like Sweden might have gotten through this pretty good then?
 

Snauen

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Dec 27, 2017
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80% of our (Canada) Covid deaths are elderly in care. Is yours that bad?
While every death is bad there are more bad things that come with the virus. Like severe disease, pain suffering, overstrained health care, postponed surgeries en masse, long haulers, SECONDARY-deaths etc.
The price for herd-immunity is terrible. Swedes (the people) are paying for that right now at this moment, and have been paying with their well-beeing for a year now.
 
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Snauen

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Dec 27, 2017
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Compared to places with lockdowns Swedes have had it easy.
This is not an argument.. It merely you spewing out an "oneliner" . What is a lockdown? Who had a kockdown? Isnt Sweden in a lockdown right now then? (Bars, restaurants, some schools closed).
Its a big difference from closing the boarders for a while and do a lot of testing like Norway did to do what North Korea does to its people. To the Swedish idiotic "Let it flow in easily ans spread freely"-modell in the spring.
 
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