Speculation: What will Canes do at deadline?

What will Canes do at deadline?


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Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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I agree that it's tough to go to your boss and tell him that you made a $16.6M mistake. On one hand, Scott Darling's last 3 years in Chicago had him with SV% of .936, .915, and .924 over 74 total games. There was no reason to assume he was going to come into Raleigh and **** the bed. Now those sheets have been shat upon.

True. Every single GM h as to tell their boss they made a mistake with a big signing, and if they've been around a few years, multiple times. That's the price you pay and risk you take signing UFAs. If Dundon really opens his pocketbook like most of us think's he will, then this won't be RF's last mistake either. Guys like Rick Nash, Evander Kane, JVR, James Neal, and the like are going to cost a fortune in free agency, and some of them will end up being bought out.

Why do the Canes break every goalie that drops off their suitcase in Raleigh? Every drafted goalie, Kuodobin, Lack, Darling, etc.

In the past, it's because we iced a defense with Corvo, Gleason, Sanguinetti, MAB, McBain, Harrison, Bellemore and Faulk. Now, I think it has to do with the contrast in style of play the team uses vs. a goalies style. That article last year about how Lack was a terrible match made a lot of sense to me. Darling never looked comfortable to me in the net, even when he played "well".
 

sheriff bart

Where are the white women at
Nov 11, 2010
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True. Every single GM h as to tell their boss they made a mistake with a big signing, and if they've been around a few years, multiple times. That's the price you pay and risk you take signing UFAs. If Dundon really opens his pocketbook like most of us think's he will, then this won't be RF's last mistake either. Guys like Rick Nash, Evander Kane, JVR, James Neal, and the like are going to cost a fortune in free agency, and some of them will end up being bought out.

Which is exactly why I don't think it's impossible that he's bought out. At least it's not a mistake of the Semin level.
 

MinJaBen

Canes Sharks Boy
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Considering your advocacy for Darling, doesn't that also make you sub-Mendoza here? I mean I'm just saying, he who lives in a glass house...

So the new standard of acceptable GM performance measures is comparison against someone on a message board? Ok. If we assume that is the case, then Darling is one of several goalies I proposed. I proposed Andersen the year before...he seems fine. Last year I proposed Darling, definitely a miss, but also Dell and Grubauer...they seem to be doing well. I also realized I/he made a mistake about Darling and was advocating to move on from him as early as mid January. Is he doing that? Does that mean since measuring him against me he is now failing?

Edit: And I'll go on record now that I think we should buy him out and try to trade for one Raanta, Grubauer, Pickard, or Lehner for next year. And I'll add I think Mrazak would have been good to get as well for the trial run this spring and next year. Let's revisit this again next year and see how I did when Ronnie stays with Ward/Darling and we are wondering why he had to trade Skinner at the deadline.
 
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sheriff bart

Where are the white women at
Nov 11, 2010
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... when Ronnie stays with Ward/Darling and we are wondering why he had to trade Skinner at the deadline.

bang-head-on-desk-gif-10.gif
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
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So the new standard of acceptable GM performance measures is comparison against someone on a message board? Ok. If we assume that is the case, then Darling is one of several goalies I proposed. I proposed Andersen the year before...he seems fine. Last year I proposed Darling, definitely a miss, but also Dell and Grubauer...they seem to be doing well. I also realized I/he made a mistake about Darling and was advocating to move on from him as early as mid January. Is he doing that? Does that mean since measuring him against me he is now failing?

Edit: And I'll go on record now that I think we should buy him out and try to trade for one Raanta, Grubauer, Pickard, or Lehner for next year. And I'll add I think Mrazak would have been good to get as well for the trial run this spring and next year. Let's revisit this again next year and see how I did when Ronnie stays with Ward/Darling and we are wondering why he had to trade Skinner at the deadline.

Nope, I'm just saying that it's more than a little hypocritical to call out the GM for making a move that you yourself were in favor of when that move doesn't pan out.
 

MinJaBen

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Nope, I'm just saying that it's more than a little hypocritical to call out the GM for making a move that you yourself were in favor of when that move doesn't pan out.

Actually, I wasn't calling him out for making the mistake that I didn't make. I am calling him out for not moving to correct the mistake as quickly as possible. What I said and you responded to was:


Ah yes, Dell's on that list which leads me to

We are about to lose one option...it appears Aaron Dell is close to resigning with the Sharks. At this point, I'm resigned to us resigning Ward to a 3 year, $4M contract, keeping Darling because reasons, and watching the same garbage all over again next year as Ronnie gets that bewildered look in his eye wondering why things didn't get better.

But I thought getting an upgrade in goal was as easy as Ron just going out there and spending the money. You mean there are other considerations to be made? Well damn, that just changes everything you've been saying for nearly a year now, doesn't it?

I do fault him for the original mistake, but that happens and I wouldn't crucify him for it. But what is unacceptable is the delay in correcting that mistake when it is the most unforgiving position on the team to have sub par performance.
 

ONO94

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Jan 18, 2010
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If the Canes goalies were better with their previous teams and are generally better with their next teams...are we really sure the problem is with the goalies? Especially when the goalie problem has seemed to get worse under Peters while the "objective" defensive talent gets better? I see more issues with the Canes playing bad team defense than i see with goalies gone bad. Basically I see Cam and Darling as "zero" type goalies...i.e. the don't win games and they don't lose games--they are just a product of what plays in front of them. If the team plays like crap, they are crap.
 

geehaad

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It's really tough to watch Darling uncontrollably slide well outside the crease and believe that to be anything other than his own fault. To hear that's how he played even before signing here leads me to place blame on RF and scouting for not knowing what they needed out of a goaltender and setting their sights on the wrong guy.

What's really funny about Darling's style as it relates to everything else I've come to learn about the position is that it seems like he is the perfect guy to simply play deep in his crease. Just be big in the net and let pucks hit you. It seems that all sorts of hell breaks loose when he gets to the edge of the blue.
 

tarheelhockey

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Feb 12, 2010
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If the Canes goalies were better with their previous teams and are generally better with their next teams...are we really sure the problem is with the goalies? Especially when the goalie problem has seemed to get worse under Peters while the "objective" defensive talent gets better? I see more issues with the Canes playing bad team defense than i see with goalies gone bad. Basically I see Cam and Darling as "zero" type goalies...i.e. the don't win games and they don't lose games--they are just a product of what plays in front of them. If the team plays like crap, they are crap.

I can somewhat buy this for Cam, particularly in light of how hard we ride him.

But Darling? He’s been garbage and actively loses games. His waving at long unscreened shots and losing track of loose pucks isn’t the fault of the defense.
 

Joe McGrath

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Oct 29, 2009
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It's really tough to watch Darling uncontrollably slide well outside the crease and believe that to be anything other than his own fault. To hear that's how he played even before signing here leads me to place blame on RF and scouting for not knowing what they needed out of a goaltender and setting their sights on the wrong guy.

What's really funny about Darling's style as it relates to everything else I've come to learn about the position is that it seems like he is the perfect guy to simply play deep in his crease. Just be big in the net and let pucks hit you. It seems that all sorts of hell breaks loose when he gets to the edge of the blue.

He should be, but when he plays back he plays incredibly small. It’s really odd to watch.
 

JCLA

Registered User
Feb 23, 2017
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At the risk of repeating myself yet again...here's the list of pending UFA goalies. Who do you get that's an upgrade on Ward let along is a competent/consistent enough tandem to get us into the playoffs?

Richard Bachman
Jonathan Bernier
Reto Berra
Joe Cannata
Aaron Dell
Jeff Glass
Jaroslav Halak
Andrew Hammond
Michael Hutchinson
Carter Hutton
Chad Johnson
Anton Khudobin
Darcy Kuemper
Eddie Lack
Kari Lehtonen
Michael Leighton
Anders Lindback
Tom McCollum
Mike McKenna
Antti Niemi
Edward Pasquale
Ondrej Pavelec
Aantti Raanta
Harri Sateri
Jeremy Smith
Niklas Svedberg
Danny Taylor
Dustin Tokarski
Cam Ward
Jeff Zatkoff

Ah yes, Dell's on that list which leads me to



But I thought getting an upgrade in goal was as easy as Ron just going out there and spending the money. You mean there are other considerations to be made? Well damn, that just changes everything you've been saying for nearly a year now, doesn't it?

It has nothing to do with choosing a player I think would be better than Ward. This franchise just needs a fresh start in goal. Wipe it clean and start over.
 

My Special Purpose

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Apr 8, 2008
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If the Canes goalies were better with their previous teams and are generally better with their next teams...are we really sure the problem is with the goalies? Especially when the goalie problem has seemed to get worse under Peters while the "objective" defensive talent gets better? I see more issues with the Canes playing bad team defense than i see with goalies gone bad. Basically I see Cam and Darling as "zero" type goalies...i.e. the don't win games and they don't lose games--they are just a product of what plays in front of them. If the team plays like crap, they are crap.

I'm not buying this. Lack and Darling, in particular, have looked absolutely lost in net. They have allowed goals from outside the blue line. They have *whiffed* on catches that pee-wee goalies make. They have been hopelessly out of position and off angles. It's not about the numbers or the way the team plays in front of them. They just don't make saves they should make.

I think it all comes down to mental toughness. It's ultra-important for a goalie and there's no doubt that Cam's got it. Cam may not be the most talented goalie in the league, and he's had (long) spells when he wasn't focused, but when he's dialed in, he's very good. I just don't see that ability to block out a bad goal, or a tough bounce, or a bad run of hockey, from Darling. I think a lot of goaltending comes down to this, actually. The best goalies are fierce. They don't care how many goals they've given up, they're going to fight you for the next one.

And that mental toughness reverberates through the team. So much of the energy of a team -- either good or bad -- comes from the goalie. Being a No. 1 goalie is tough. Not everybody is cut out for it. Kinda like quarterback in football. You've got to be a leader.
 

DaveG

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Apr 7, 2003
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He should be, but when he plays back he plays incredibly small. It’s really odd to watch.
And Lack had the exact same problem. Literally the exact same problem.

Again, I ask why our scouts and GM are actively going after guys that play a completely contrasting style to the one that they have the most success in front of. It's not like Ward is some superhuman goalie or even a star level one. And yet we always go out and after big goalies that are absolute dog shit when it comes to playing the puck and playing aggressive on the shooter. Honestly that more then anything makes me think Ned would be a flat out upgrade even though he's clearly not ready yet. He at least plays a similar enough style that he would give the team a chance.
 

Joe McGrath

Registered User
Oct 29, 2009
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And Lack had the exact same problem. Literally the exact same problem.

Again, I ask why our scouts and GM are actively going after guys that play a completely contrasting style to the one that they have the most success in front of. It's not like Ward is some superhuman goalie or even a star level one. And yet we always go out and after big goalies that are absolute dog **** when it comes to playing the puck and playing aggressive on the shooter. Honestly that more then anything makes me think Ned would be a flat out upgrade even though he's clearly not ready yet. He at least plays a similar enough style that he would give the team a chance.

Been thinking about that recently too with Ned. It’s the antithesis of current goaltending convention, but they are supposedly playing the same system in Charlotte and he’s the goalie when they win games. Smith who had been a fine AHL goalie elsewhere has been dogshit. Where have we heard this story before?
 

ONO94

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Jan 18, 2010
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But yet, with all the known issues Darling and Ward have, Peters continues to play a style that accentuates the negatives they both have. Heck even the Maurice stack the defense back and hope for a goal on a turnover style of play would work better with these two. Look at Darling last year and the year before--he didn't play like this in Chicago--this is a change that happened once he came to Carolina. Maybe it is him trying to do too much--but it is strange that Lack looked good before the Canes and stunk after, and Khudobin looked competent before he got here and after he left--but not here. And now Darling has the same issues. At some point the Canes have to realize its their problem and not the goalies. Maybe because they picked the wrong people as goalies or maybe they picked the wrong people to tell the goalies what to do--but its become a system problem.

Frankly, the Canes are starting to sound like Toronto fans from the 2000's--if we just had a better goalie, we could win. No--if they just had better players and a competent coach--they could win.
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
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We haven't been to the playoffs with Ward since 2009. Should we keep Ward for ****s and giggles?

Just like it was time to move on from Eric, it's time to move on from ward

Now I'm thoroughly confused. If we want to get to the playoffs shouldn't it be about choosing someone better than Ward? I mean I get the feeling listening to some on here that they won't be happy until Francis trades everybody for whatever he can get and want 100% turnover regardless of what it means for our chances to get back into the playoffs. If we can't get somebody who's an upgrade on Ward, why cut him loose? If the best you're going to have is an at-par replacement, why make the move?
 

JCLA

Registered User
Feb 23, 2017
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Now I'm thoroughly confused. If we want to get to the playoffs shouldn't it be about choosing someone better than Ward? I mean I get the feeling listening to some on here that they won't be happy until Francis trades everybody for whatever he can get and want 100% turnover regardless of what it means for our chances to get back into the playoffs. If we can't get somebody who's an upgrade on Ward, why cut him loose? If the best you're going to have is an at-par replacement, why make the move?

We can't fix the position. We keep trying and failing. The one constant is Ward. Change the constant.

If we're not making it with Ward, why do we keep hitting our head against the wall trying the same thing. There are goalies on that list that would probably do about the same job ward has done. Whether or not we can get them or not, Idk.

We decreased value at C to move on from Staal. Everybody agreed it was the right thing to do.

What's different about goalie? and I don't necesarrily think if w can grab one of 3-4 on that list we'd be decreasing value.
 
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May 23, 2016
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But yet, with all the known issues Darling and Ward have, Peters continues to play a style that accentuates the negatives they both have. Heck even the Maurice stack the defense back and hope for a goal on a turnover style of play would work better with these two. Look at Darling last year and the year before--he didn't play like this in Chicago--this is a change that happened once he came to Carolina. Maybe it is him trying to do too much--but it is strange that Lack looked good before the Canes and stunk after, and Khudobin looked competent before he got here and after he left--but not here. And now Darling has the same issues. At some point the Canes have to realize its their problem and not the goalies. Maybe because they picked the wrong people as goalies or maybe they picked the wrong people to tell the goalies what to do--but its become a system problem.

Frankly, the Canes are starting to sound like Toronto fans from the 2000's--if we just had a better goalie, we could win. No--if they just had better players and a competent coach--they could win.

I pointed this out earlier this season. We are becoming the goalie graveyard. It's like the system is only accommodating wards play style so every other goalie we try completely flounders. Regardless it's an interesting observation to say the least. Small sample size or not Darling was really solid in Chicago to the point some fans were ok with keeping him over Crawford and here he looks ECHL quality. That just doesn't happen overnight i'm sorry.
 

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