What was your breaking point with Chia Pet?

[The Rainman]

Lot of good info here but from what I'm reading a lot of us are in the same boat. I'll go a through what happened at the time with the caveat of no hindsight

1. Hall trade for Larsson - Hall was rooming with McDavid and was a cancer. He was ignoring coaches (I knew this before an interview in his MVP season where he admitted this) and was refusing to play in the system. He was NOT a team player - to use Hitchcock's analogy, he was playing this his team, not 'for' his team. His last year here, when McDavid went down ( more on that later lol) he soared up to 4th in NHL scoring around Christmas time. However, by January we were pretty much out of it and wouldn't you know it, Hall went from fourth down to the mid twenties. I wanted a draft pick (2nd rounder to compensate for the 2nd round pick lost when hiring Chiarelli) in addition to Larsson but I was ok with the trade and that was the 'general' concensus here - addition by subraction. The subsequent signing of Lucic to protect McDavid (now many games has McDavid missed due to injury since we signed McDavid have we missed?) was also part of that deal. Now, in hindsight, yes - it was a terrible deal - both of them (Lucic and trade) but at the time, it wasn't

2. Griffin Reinhart trade - first off - that wasn't Chiarelli. And that my friends is what is still scaring the crap out of me. That was Bob Green and probably MacT and Howson chiming in, AFTER PC tried and failed to acquire Douggie Hamilton. To refresh your memories, the reported asking price from Boston was our 1st and 2nd round picks + Darnell Nurse for Hamilton. How would you all have felt if THAT trade was made? As well, for the picks in question, jumptheshark is 100% correct. I know for a fact that Barzal was not being considered and for those of you who state 'best player available' well no, not only are you wrong, you wouldn't have drafted him either. It's so easy to sit at your keyboard and type that. But bottom line is this - you had Draisaitl and RNH, and you just drafted a generational player in McDavid. Barzal would never, ever, have gotten the ice time to 'show case' his talent for potential 'trade bait' first of all. Secondly, with those three centers already in the fold a defenseman would have been top priority and was. Who it was, I'm not sure. If it wasn't a dman, we were taking Svechnikov who was taken by Detroit and still hasn't made it in the NHL (not talking about his younger brother playing in Carolina). For our second round pick, the guy they had wanted was the RHD Brandon DeCarlo. I know that too. So anyway Green and whoever else convinced PC that Reinhart was ready now and fit the bill of 'big and heavy' and was the captain of a Memorial Cup winning team so he listened to his advisors and made the deal. I personally hated the deal as I never liked Reinhart - none of them- but at the time I understood the reasoning why they made the trade. It turned out later no one had actually watched Reinhart play in over a year. So to me, the blame on PC is not the trade, it's the fact he didn't fire the clowns that told him to trade for him. THAT was PC's mistake. But tell me, was he allowed to? That's what scares me

3. Eberle for Strome trade - loved it - still do. Eberle was complete garbage in the playoffs. Utterly useless. We all hated him. And he's making 6M a year. AND we need room to replace Sekera. AND Strome is / could be someone that just needed a change of scenery and he was also a player who could play center and RW. So we not only got a more versatile player, but someone that saved us 3.5M and still had potential. That wasn't the issue. The issue was what happened after the trade. NOTHING - we just saved 3.5M in cap space - more than enough to bring in even a rental for 1 year to fill in for Sekera, and nothing. However we do not know what happened behind closed doors. To this day I give PC the benefit of the doubt that he was trying behind the scenes to make a move but either the asking price was too high or the contract was (remember Sek is coming back and so is his cap hit) so though in hindsight it was a bad trade I was ok with the move. Thought it was smart at the time.

So when did I sour on him, this off season. After three years, his 'plan' clearly wasn't working. But that's ok guys - we are in a constant change of flux. As people, we have to change too. Those that can adapt and change I have no issue with. I was hoping in his end of year address he'd come out and say "yep, looks like 'big' and 'heavy' on it's own can't get it done and we need to go in a different direction". But he didn't so that was when it turned for me. I won't rehash what happened after that as it's all here and I agree with all of it but will add one thing:

Clearly, PC was in desperation mode. The moves he made were literally that of a drowning man grabbing on to anything to save himself, not caring about the welfare of others (in this case the well being of the Edmonton Oilers and the players on that team). But I put to you all here - WHO allowed this to happen? WHO allowed the Koskinen signing - if what Bobby Nicks says is true PC didn't sign him on his own, it was a concensus signing. I also heard it was Keith Gretzky, not PC, that worked on the Petrovic and Manning trades. PC just signed off on it. Not saying that's true, as it was reported on Gregor's show I believe, but IMO it makes sense as why would you do both deals so close together? My guess was it was one or the other and both deals were done in separate transactions at the same time. But that Manning trade didn't sour me on PC, I already was, it soured me on the organisation as a whole. How do you bring in a guy who broke your star players collar bone even if he was playing well. NVM the fact he was a healthy scratch on a weak blueline for a team a lot worse (?) than yours!

So now we got a politician with zero foresight asking anyone and everyone "what's wrong with our team, what's wrong with our water, who should I hire as GM" running the show. And everyone is happy PC is gone lol??? Hey, I am too don't get me wrong, but dont' kid yourselves. This is way deeper than PC. Whenever something goes off the rails like this, it starts from the top. Unfortunately, the guy at the top is the one hiring the next GM - so I'm not very enthusiastic about our future. Let me put it another way, if Glenn Sather were in BN's spot, would he be calling Darryl Sutter at his farm looking for an opinion on HIS team? I don't know but if I was betting on it I'd say no way Slats would have his own plan and know the type of person he wanted to hire. That's how I see it anyway. Sorry for the long rant - thanks for reading if you made it this far

Very well written! Thanks for the great read!

 

[Soundwave]

No singular moment but just a generational realization that this team was on many, many night painfully boring to watch.

It's not about good/bad at that point, they're not even entertaining a lot of the time. If you're going to get scored on that much at least get some goals back aside from the general 1-2 McPoints a night.

 

[lakai17]

Another was selecting Benson over DeBrincat.

 

[La Bamba]

This one I know is minor but when he bought out Eric Gryba.

Literally the most idiotic move of all time.. Gryba could have been bured in the AHL with no cap penalty AND on top of that, later on in the season, he desperately looks for a D man to add some toughness (sound like someone familiar?) and spends a f***ing 3rd on Petrovic who is just as bad as Gryba.

Biggest f***ing turd of a GM ever

This franchise was in the best shape it ever was in the past 20 years the moment Mathew Barzal became available with the Oilers' #16 pick... then it all went down hill from there. f***ing clowns.

 

[Hemsky is a gangsta]

Eberle for Strome and using the money saved to give Russell a raise. Admittedly I was concerned about Reinhart and Larsson but gave him the benefit of the doubt until the summer of 2017.

 

[DerpMorg]

Eberle for Strome was it. He had to win that trade and completely shit his pants.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

as a guy willing to give him a chance to redeem himself in 2018, he should have been fired before the Spooner trade...it was clear the team wasn't good enough and most his summer signings proved bad (Brodziak, Reider are garbage...initial Koskinen deal was good and Chiasson was good)

everything he did post-2017 playoffs was a disaster (other than drafting better IMO and putting an actual plan in place in Bakersfield) from questionable buyouts, to slight overpays to horrible trades to poor cap management

 

[BlackDogg]

Chia is a clown, but I blame Katz even more. Maybe get another adviser or something, or maybe just use some common sense based on what obviously isn't working.

 

[Raoul Duke]

as a guy willing to give him a chance to redeem himself in 2018, he should have been fired before the Spooner trade...it was clear the team wasn't good enough and most his summer signings proved bad (Brodziak, Reider are garbage...initial Koskinen deal was good and Chiasson was good)

everything he did post-2017 playoffs was a disaster (other than drafting better IMO and putting an actual plan in place in Bakersfield) from questionable buyouts, to slight overpays to horrible trades to poor cap management

Honestly, if you see everything post 2017 playoffs as “disaster”, why on earth would you back him until the Spooner trade?

Do you believe everything leading to the ‘17 playoffs were good moves?
Only then did Chia become bad?

Do you believe that the pre ‘17 playoff moves aren’t a cause of the current situation?

Not trying to argue. Legitimately asking.

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

When he signed Lucic.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Honestly, if you see everything post 2017 playoffs as “disaster”, why on earth would you back him until the Spooner trade?

because I wanted to see if the roster he had built in 2017-18 was a "fluke"...considering horrid special teams and goaltending, we never saw the team at its best...obviously I was wrong and the 2016-17 team was the fluke

Do you believe everything leading to the ‘17 playoffs were good moves?
Only then did Chia become bad?

no, not everything he did from 2015-17 was good...the Reinhart deal still sucked and he didn't get enough value for Hall, and the Lucic signing was atrocious BUT
-he did get a goaltending that set a record for wins and 4th in Vezina voting
-he acquired Maroon, who scored 27 goals for the team
-he acquired Kassian, who was a beast in the playoffs
-he signed Sekera, who was the best UFA d-man at the time
-he signed Letestu, who had a fantastic career year in 2016-17
-Desharnais was a decent trade and scored a massive goal in the playoffs

his "good" moves outweighed the "bad" at that point...even if the bad trades were really bad
his downward spiral started to occur when he traded Eberle, didn't use the cap savings on anyone and his didn't improve the team a bit in the offseason of 2017 and signed has-been Jokinen...and called it a day
a bizarre off-season, yet many still felt the team was a Cup contender

Do you believe that the pre ‘17 playoff moves aren’t a cause of the current situation?

with the benefit of hindsight, absolutely
the Reinhart deal is killing this team the most right now...they simply don't have the depth in the prospect system to overcome the trades in talent

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I just can't get past the summer of 2017.

Success breeds arrogance. I wonder if they bowed out in the first round or didn't even make the playoffs if things would be different today.

 

[McSuper]

When I watered my Chia pet it never grew it just turned to shit . I think I got a defective diseased one that infected everyone around it and turned them to shit as well .

 

[Canovin]

Reinhart trade. Got rejected by the Hamilton trade, got desperate and traded Reinhart.

 

[CaptainSexyPants]

Lot of good info here but from what I'm reading a lot of us are in the same boat. I'll go a through what happened at the time with the caveat of no hindsight

1. Hall trade for Larsson - Hall was rooming with McDavid and was a cancer. He was ignoring coaches (I knew this before an interview in his MVP season where he admitted this) and was refusing to play in the system. He was NOT a team player - to use Hitchcock's analogy, he was playing this his team, not 'for' his team. His last year here, when McDavid went down ( more on that later lol) he soared up to 4th in NHL scoring around Christmas time. However, by January we were pretty much out of it and wouldn't you know it, Hall went from fourth down to the mid twenties. I wanted a draft pick (2nd rounder to compensate for the 2nd round pick lost when hiring Chiarelli) in addition to Larsson but I was ok with the trade and that was the 'general' concensus here - addition by subraction. The subsequent signing of Lucic to protect McDavid (now many games has McDavid missed due to injury since we signed McDavid have we missed?) was also part of that deal. Now, in hindsight, yes - it was a terrible deal - both of them (Lucic and trade) but at the time, it wasn't

2. Griffin Reinhart trade - first off - that wasn't Chiarelli. And that my friends is what is still scaring the crap out of me. That was Bob Green and probably MacT and Howson chiming in, AFTER PC tried and failed to acquire Douggie Hamilton. To refresh your memories, the reported asking price from Boston was our 1st and 2nd round picks + Darnell Nurse for Hamilton. How would you all have felt if THAT trade was made? As well, for the picks in question, jumptheshark is 100% correct. I know for a fact that Barzal was not being considered and for those of you who state 'best player available' well no, not only are you wrong, you wouldn't have drafted him either. It's so easy to sit at your keyboard and type that. But bottom line is this - you had Draisaitl and RNH, and you just drafted a generational player in McDavid. Barzal would never, ever, have gotten the ice time to 'show case' his talent for potential 'trade bait' first of all. Secondly, with those three centers already in the fold a defenseman would have been top priority and was. Who it was, I'm not sure. If it wasn't a dman, we were taking Svechnikov who was taken by Detroit and still hasn't made it in the NHL (not talking about his younger brother playing in Carolina). For our second round pick, the guy they had wanted was the RHD Brandon DeCarlo. I know that too. So anyway Green and whoever else convinced PC that Reinhart was ready now and fit the bill of 'big and heavy' and was the captain of a Memorial Cup winning team so he listened to his advisors and made the deal. I personally hated the deal as I never liked Reinhart - none of them- but at the time I understood the reasoning why they made the trade. It turned out later no one had actually watched Reinhart play in over a year. So to me, the blame on PC is not the trade, it's the fact he didn't fire the clowns that told him to trade for him. THAT was PC's mistake. But tell me, was he allowed to? That's what scares me

3. Eberle for Strome trade - loved it - still do. Eberle was complete garbage in the playoffs. Utterly useless. We all hated him. And he's making 6M a year. AND we need room to replace Sekera. AND Strome is / could be someone that just needed a change of scenery and he was also a player who could play center and RW. So we not only got a more versatile player, but someone that saved us 3.5M and still had potential. That wasn't the issue. The issue was what happened after the trade. NOTHING - we just saved 3.5M in cap space - more than enough to bring in even a rental for 1 year to fill in for Sekera, and nothing. However we do not know what happened behind closed doors. To this day I give PC the benefit of the doubt that he was trying behind the scenes to make a move but either the asking price was too high or the contract was (remember Sek is coming back and so is his cap hit) so though in hindsight it was a bad trade I was ok with the move. Thought it was smart at the time.

So when did I sour on him, this off season. After three years, his 'plan' clearly wasn't working. But that's ok guys - we are in a constant change of flux. As people, we have to change too. Those that can adapt and change I have no issue with. I was hoping in his end of year address he'd come out and say "yep, looks like 'big' and 'heavy' on it's own can't get it done and we need to go in a different direction". But he didn't so that was when it turned for me. I won't rehash what happened after that as it's all here and I agree with all of it but will add one thing:

Clearly, PC was in desperation mode. The moves he made were literally that of a drowning man grabbing on to anything to save himself, not caring about the welfare of others (in this case the well being of the Edmonton Oilers and the players on that team). But I put to you all here - WHO allowed this to happen? WHO allowed the Koskinen signing - if what Bobby Nicks says is true PC didn't sign him on his own, it was a concensus signing. I also heard it was Keith Gretzky, not PC, that worked on the Petrovic and Manning trades. PC just signed off on it. Not saying that's true, as it was reported on Gregor's show I believe, but IMO it makes sense as why would you do both deals so close together? My guess was it was one or the other and both deals were done in separate transactions at the same time. But that Manning trade didn't sour me on PC, I already was, it soured me on the organisation as a whole. How do you bring in a guy who broke your star players collar bone even if he was playing well. NVM the fact he was a healthy scratch on a weak blueline for a team a lot worse (?) than yours!

So now we got a politician with zero foresight asking anyone and everyone "what's wrong with our team, what's wrong with our water, who should I hire as GM" running the show. And everyone is happy PC is gone lol??? Hey, I am too don't get me wrong, but dont' kid yourselves. This is way deeper than PC. Whenever something goes off the rails like this, it starts from the top. Unfortunately, the guy at the top is the one hiring the next GM - so I'm not very enthusiastic about our future. Let me put it another way, if Glenn Sather were in BN's spot, would he be calling Darryl Sutter at his farm looking for an opinion on HIS team? I don't know but if I was betting on it I'd say no way Slats would have his own plan and know the type of person he wanted to hire. That's how I see it anyway. Sorry for the long rant - thanks for reading if you made it this far

Great take, couldn't agree more.

I had the same thoughts listening on Nicholson when listening to Edmonton AM this morning. The guy is completely clueless; desperate for someone to tell him what direction to take.

 

[trick91]

when we didnt go all in after the playoff run. McDavid on his ELC, we have cap room... instead we get WORSE during the offseason. Buying out players that dont make sense, etc.

 

[Aerchon]

I admit, I was one of the last to turn against Chia Pet and it was he last few moves that sent me over the edge against him....

Strome for Spooner--I liked Strome and from what I saw of Spooner he was not the same player Chia Pet had in Boston
Cags for Manning--we had no depth up front and although injured--we had a lot of D running around and guys on the farm that could fill in--and the fact Manning has one year left was a kicker. CAgs at 1.6 was not great but okay for a 3rd liner--Manning, when our team is healthy--will be our number 7 D and I believe Jones ot Bear should be getting cups of coffee over that--it might just be me

Then is is the goalie situation--I am still not a Kosk fan and have my concerns--some blame the D in front of him--but I think it is him. Signing him and more or less telling Talbot he is done was done the wrong way. Talbot has been a good soldier and his wife a breath of fresh air when it comes to wives--they deserved better

the Wideman/Petrovic trade was just moving chairs on the titanic

This year's moves, as you describe above, are what finally turned me.

Every move before, except the Reinhart one, had a clear and easy rational to follow that were intended to make the team all around better. Even if giving up the best player in the deal.

Every move this year made little to omfg no sense. This year set us back most likely two with how bad it was.

The Gagner move reeks of a bad PR stunt more than attempt to improve the team now or moving forward.

Getting rid of Chiarelli is only the tip of the shit berg.

 

[Todd from Leduc]

When he gave max term, NMC, buyout proof and max $$$$ to Lucic. Usually in a negotiation both sides have to give on at least one thing.

 

[destro909]

I was done with Chiarelli after the summer of 2017 when he cleared a bunch of cap space with the Eberle trade and Pouliot buy out. I was expecting him to bring in another defenseman (since it was already known we were starting the season without Sekera) or at least a winger to replace Eberle. Instead of improving the team after the playoff run he made it worse.

I honestly think he was disappointed that he couldn't do more at the trade deadline during 2016-17. I think his plan was to have tons of cap space for the 2017-18 trade deadline so we could acquire a few guys and go deep in the playoffs. Unfortunately, that plan totally back fired as the team wasn't even good enough to make the playoffs

 

[Stoneman89]

This year's moves, as you describe above, are what finally turned me.

Every move before, except the Reinhart one, had a clear and easy rational to follow that were intended to make the team all around better. Even if giving up the best player in the deal.

Every move this year made little to omfg no sense. This year set us back most likely two with how bad it was.

The Gagner move reeks of a bad PR stunt more than attempt to improve the team now or moving forward.

Getting rid of Chiarelli is only the tip of the **** berg.

The reason the moves this year escalated in badness as the year went on, is because Chia (and Todd) were likely both told that if things went south again this year, they would both be gone. Chia was in total desperation mode. Todd would up in not giving a dman anymore mode due to the frustration of the having to throw out a useless lineup night after night, and having everyone rag on him as being the main problem.

 

[Raoul Duke]

because I wanted to see if the roster he had built in 2017-18 was a "fluke"...considering horrid special teams and goaltending, we never saw the team at its best...obviously I was wrong and the 2016-17 team was the fluke


no, not everything he did from 2015-17 was good...the Reinhart deal still sucked and he didn't get enough value for Hall, and the Lucic signing was atrocious BUT
-he did get a goaltending that set a record for wins and 4th in Vezina voting
-he acquired Maroon, who scored 27 goals for the team
-he acquired Kassian, who was a beast in the playoffs
-he signed Sekera, who was the best UFA d-man at the time
-he signed Letestu, who had a fantastic career year in 2016-17
-Desharnais was a decent trade and scored a massive goal in the playoffs

his "good" moves outweighed the "bad" at that point...even if the bad trades were really bad
his downward spiral started to occur when he traded Eberle, didn't use the cap savings on anyone and his didn't improve the team a bit in the offseason of 2017 and signed has-been Jokinen...and called it a day
a bizarre off-season, yet many still felt the team was a Cup contender


with the benefit of hindsight, absolutely
the Reinhart deal is killing this team the most right now...they simply don't have the depth in the prospect system to overcome the trades in talent

Thanks.