What UFA should we really go after?

haulinbass

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Mar 6, 2014
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I never said that the chances were super high that he would sign. Secondly again like I said you don't know Erik Karllson and his likes, dislikes, what he is looking for. I give Detroit a chance because of the rich tradition of being an NHL original 6 team, lots of good prospects and young roster players, and the biggest thing cap space. I don'y know if you realize this, but some players go to teams just because the money is better. As far as your "not a single top ufa has went to a bottom feeder team" Zach Parise and Ryan Suter both went to the Wild a year where they finished 24th out of 30. You act like you know everything and are the smartest person in the room and honestly you just come off like a jerk. People have opinions that you don't like and you just go on and on and on about how much you know. I watch a tun of hockey ranging from all different levels, hell I coach hockey at the junior level but ya your the only one that knows anything.

You realize Parise is from Minneapolis MN right? Suter is from Wisconsin and even played college in Wisconsin. I'm almost 100% sure they made it known they picked Minnesota because they wanted to play at home. It is hard finding the articles to support this considering how long ago it was.
 

lomekian

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Oct 28, 2013
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Maybe the best thing the Wings to do this summer is to not overpay for an UFA. Keep your long term money for a player that truly wants to play in Detroit such as Trouba next summer. Become a better team the Wings will have a larger choice ofn UFAs that want to play in Detroit.
Depending on what one means by an overpayment, I'd agree. Hard to determine what an overpayment for the top FAs would be, but certainly no point offering significantly above market value, especially if they wouldn't immediately become a top 3 player on the team
 

lomekian

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You realize Parise is from Minneapolis MN right? Suter is from Wisconsin and even played college in Wisconsin. I'm almost 100% sure they made it known they picked Minnesota because they wanted to play at home. It is hard finding the articles to support this considering how long ago it was.
Indeed. Though it was a bigger deal for Parise. Suter was influenced by Parise's decision.
 
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haulinbass

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While one doesn't doubt the sincerity of your views or wishes, or that that Hen Kolland has been a little provocative, your last few posts come across as incredibly arrogant, blinkered and patronising.

You do realise that multiple people can invest time in looking at something and reach different conclusions, particularly when it comes to projecting the future, and assessing the best of multiple options with no direct recent historical comparison like for like?

Your extensive watching hockey and Dynasty leagues may make you more knowledgeable on certain elements, but it certainly doesn't afford you the right to dictate absolutism in a conversation that cannot by definition be resolved absolutely. And 'the my friends are smarter than your friends' line is hardly endearing, when the only certainty we have is that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and it is the specifics that define the comparative success of competing methodologies.

I personally would take Karlsson in the very unlikely event he doesn't get a better offer elsewhere, for the following reasons:

1) He would be the best D we've had since Lidstrom, and while he will inevitably slow down, his PPG is still high and stable, and injury permitting could easily remain so for several years.
2) He's excellent on the PP. We have been awful on the PP for a number of years now, but with the impending arrival of Zadina, our next draft pick(s), and the development of Rasmussen and our young D, a top level PP D-man could be massive for both their development and the team.
3) Given our record at drafting D, it seems unlikely we'll find anyone that way any time soon that can play at Karlsson's level.
4) Equally, the red wings finally have 2-3 Dmen coming up who could be regular 2nd liner's without being above their heads, which, if augmented by Karlsson's arrival, and the retention of some of our current regular D, would give us the most exciting D core since we last made it to the SC final, only most of our roster would be younger players.
5) We all want to draft a star. Karlsson is a star...if we get lucky this year, maybe we'll have 2 stars! In all seriousness though, the last few draft lotteries have taught us that even if this team remains awful, we might still never get a top 5 pick, and signing an elite player in FA would compensate.
6) While it is far from certain, if our recent draft picks and younger players continue to develop as most have over the last 12-18 months, we could find ourselves being a playoff team soon enough anyway, depending on the evolution of other teams.
7) He's an extremely entertaining player, who would fit it well with what Blash's system hopes to be. If nothing else watching the team would be a lot more exciting.
8) You land EK and suddenly other FA's look at you very differently.

Now of course it isn't without risk. Its a gamble that is dependent on the success of other elements alongside it to really be seen as successful in the long term. It would certainly require someone with more defensive instincts to flourish as a partner for him.

But ultimately all the options on the table have risk. As others have said, nothing offers guarantees.
Sure you might Draft Sid & Geno or Kane and Toews, or Matthews and Marner. But Edmonton have drafted lots of top players in round 1, but have nothing to show for it. Arizona are still not a playoff team despite how many high picks? Buffalo are finally improving, but STILL aren't a playoff team. The Devils remain massively reliant on 1 man to be competitive. etc

What if our fwds all continue developing but we never find that #1 D, and are locked into picking 10-20 every year, and don't nail those picks?
What if we continue to be poor but never get any lottery luck?
What if we do finally draft a defensive superstar but not for another 7 years?

Personally, I'd go hard for multiple top Free Agents, and be willing to trade the likes of Daley for peanuts and cap dump Abby etc in order to make the cap work. As in this year, we may see other high quality FAs hit the market. While unlikely, as has been pointed out, bag EK and Trouba in back to back years and suddenly our biggest weakness is a strength

Do I think its going to happen? NO.
Is it impossible? NO.
But to ascribe certainty or absolutism because you 'know more' is not just insulting to everyone else, but also gets you into the entrenched tunnel thinking that has exactly the impact that you complain about.
I think collectively, as you do watch so many other teams, most would find it more interesting to benefit from that knowledge re draft options, trade targets or DRW prospects, particularly as you suggest you take interest in how they fit into playing styles, synergies and the broader picture. I for one would find that more interesting and useful than seeing my preferred strategy ridiculed (not directly with me obvs), when the myriad of variables mean it is impossible for me and those who agree with me to be fundamentally wrong.

You are right man. I got a little out of control in this thread. I have my reasons for it but there is still no excuse for me to get fired up on the Internet over essentially a meaningless debate.

Its to bad more people don't conduct themselves like you or we wouldn't have so many arguments. I still disagree with trying to sign Karlsson but atleast you provided quality support for your views.
 

datsyukfan

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Jul 5, 2007
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You realize Parise is from Minneapolis MN right? Suter is from Wisconsin and even played college in Wisconsin. I'm almost 100% sure they made it known they picked Minnesota because they wanted to play at home. It is hard finding the articles to support this considering how long ago it was.
Oh so now your using factors as to why a couple star free agents went somewhere, like I said about Karlsson (rich trsdition, original 6, high success with swedes). Maybe Karllson's favorite team growing up was the wings? Couldn't that be a reason why he would sign here? Like I said none of us know what Erik Karllson wants/vaulues ya if I had to bet no he probably isn't coming here but doesn't mean there is no chance (your less than 0% like you said) is true either
 

haulinbass

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Mar 6, 2014
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Oh so now your using factors as to why a couple star free agents went somewhere, like I said about Karlsson (rich trsdition, original 6, high success with swedes). Maybe Karllson's favorite team growing up was the wings? Couldn't that be a reason why he would sign here? Like I said none of us know what Erik Karllson wants/vaulues ya if I had to bet no he probably isn't coming here but doesn't mean there is no chance (your less than 0% like you said) is true either

Ok.

:nod:
 

RabidBadger

Mazur detractors will look like dummies!
Sep 9, 2007
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Maybe the best thing the Wings to do this summer is to not overpay for an UFA. Keep your long term money for a player that truly wants to play in Detroit such as Trouba next summer. Become a better team the Wings will have a larger choice ofn UFAs that want to play in Detroit.

Selma and I share your view.
 

lomekian

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Oct 28, 2013
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You are right man. I got a little out of control in this thread. I have my reasons for it but there is still no excuse for me to get fired up on the Internet over essentially a meaningless debate.

Its to bad more people don't conduct themselves like you or we wouldn't have so many arguments. I still disagree with trying to sign Karlsson but atleast you provided quality support for your views.
Here's a question for you then...are there any impending UFAs you DO think we should pursue, and why?
 

haulinbass

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Mar 6, 2014
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Here's a question for you then...are there any impending UFAs you DO think we should pursue, and why?

I don't think I would add anything at this time. We have plenty of vets in Nielson, Abs, Helm, Vanek, Daley and Dekeyser. If we lose Kronwall that will hurt but we have plenty of guys to absorb the impact in the lockeroom. I have to believe Larkin is already considered a leader in that room as well. All of our young guys been around Zetterberg and some even Datsyuk. I don't think this team is lacking the proper mentality, work ethic or leadership that some rebuilding teams seem to struggle with. All these players got brought up into the right atmosphere. Some of our young guys are already fairly experienced in this league and as our vet contracts expire I think the leadership roles will likely be replaced internally in good timing.

If we were lacking in this area I would certainly look to bring in some role players that could mentor the young players but not make a huge impact on the standings. As far as bringing in any type of star talent, the answer is also no. I would rather be drafting high than finishing say 8th-14thish next season.

I believe you can only really analyze these things season to season. If guys like Zadina start making an impact and Choloski/Hronek take big steps then maybe you start looking at finding ways to bring in a big piece. But there is also a very good chance some of these highly touted prospects trend in a disappointing direction, there is a chance Mantha and AA don't get much better. I'm not rooting against these guys by any means, if they turn out great I will be very happy. But you just can't expect these guys to all turn out like Larkin did, its pretty low odds. If everyone stepped up and in hindsight we didn't need to draft a top 2 talent, thats great. But I'm not going to sit here and plan a team around things like that happening. What I would like to see happen also allows for that scenario to unfold and then act accordingly at which point you may have a fighting chance to bring in a big UFA. Right now, its just not going to happen. Sure we could attract some average top six vets with this team if the money is right. But I stand against that idea just as much as I stood against signing Nielson. Most times, those calibers of players do not have the shelf life to fulfill a UFA contract. The reality is, unless your elite a majority of the guys decline to much beyond around 30 in todays game. This isn't 1995 or even 2003, it is 2019 and the game has changed a lot.

Its easy to sit here and tell other people with opposing views that they aren't open minded and are in tunnel visioned on their ideas. But I don't see anyone on the other side of the argument willing to even consider my concerns. I believe picking someone up like EK could be a disaster for this team unless our young players and prospects develop faster and with higher success rate then you could reasonably expect. Not saying its not possible, just very unlikely. EK probably will not meet expectations on the 7 year 10-11 mill contract most expect he gets. We could get 3 years down the road with EK and be wishing we kept drafting high. I'm also a big believer in your highest contract sets the bar. Pretty hard to get your RFA's to buy into team friendly deals when you paid EK 11 million. I believe Tavares raises the price of the contracts in Toronto. How do you negotiate with Marner and tell him hes worth less than Tavares?

Another aspect of having great success in a cap league is signing your guys to the right prices. I believe bringing them up together gives you a good opportunity to lock in a few core pieces at good rates before the offense flourishes and numbers start demanding more money. There is a lot to think about when rebuilding a team in this league and I have tried my best to consider everything. With everything I have considered I favor waiting until the timing is right before adding big pieces.

I feel very comfortable with the Wings organization and development abilities that we would not turn out like an Edmonton or Arizona under a full dedicated rebuild.

Sorry for the long post.
 
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Apr 14, 2009
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With Yzerman steering the ship, Anton Stralman to Detroit in the offseason seems is a huge possibility. He has connections with Yzerman, Tampa can't keep him due to the Cap, we need an upgrade on D and he will definitely be an upgrade, he's a Swede and Swedes love Detroit.

Seems like a perfect match.
 

obey86

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Jun 9, 2009
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With Yzerman steering the ship, Anton Stralman to Detroit in the offseason seems is a huge possibility. He has connections with Yzerman, Tampa can't keep him due to the Cap, we need an upgrade on D and he will definitely be an upgrade, he's a Swede and Swedes love Detroit.

Seems like a perfect match.

I believe he played pretty poorly this season. And honestly, the last thing I want the Wings to do is add another completely over the hill defenseman (33 next season) to the team on a long term contract, just as Green, Ericsson, Kronwall, and Daley are all nearing the next of their contracts.
 
Apr 14, 2009
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I believe he played pretty poorly this season. And honestly, the last thing I want the Wings to do is add another completely over the hill defenseman (33 next season) to the team on a long term contract, just as Green, Ericsson, Kronwall, and Daley are all nearing the next of their contracts.

Fair point. In a perfect world Kronwall hangs them up, and Yzerman finds a way to move Ericsson. All depends on if Yzerman believes we can be a playoff team next year, or not. If he's thinking playoffs, Stralman is an upgrade on what we heave. If he's thinking continue the rebuild, then he won't bring him in.
 

Ricky Bobby

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Aug 31, 2008
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I don't think I would add anything at this time. We have plenty of vets in Nielson, Abs, Helm, Vanek, Daley and Dekeyser. If we lose Kronwall that will hurt but we have plenty of guys to absorb the impact in the lockeroom. I have to believe Larkin is already considered a leader in that room as well. All of our young guys been around Zetterberg and some even Datsyuk. I don't think this team is lacking the proper mentality, work ethic or leadership that some rebuilding teams seem to struggle with. All these players got brought up into the right atmosphere. Some of our young guys are already fairly experienced in this league and as our vet contracts expire I think the leadership roles will likely be replaced internally in good timing.

If we were lacking in this area I would certainly look to bring in some role players that could mentor the young players but not make a huge impact on the standings. As far as bringing in any type of star talent, the answer is also no. I would rather be drafting high than finishing say 8th-14thish next season.

I believe you can only really analyze these things season to season. If guys like Zadina start making an impact and Choloski/Hronek take big steps then maybe you start looking at finding ways to bring in a big piece. But there is also a very good chance some of these highly touted prospects trend in a disappointing direction, there is a chance Mantha and AA don't get much better. I'm not rooting against these guys by any means, if they turn out great I will be very happy. But you just can't expect these guys to all turn out like Larkin did, its pretty low odds. If everyone stepped up and in hindsight we didn't need to draft a top 2 talent, thats great. But I'm not going to sit here and plan a team around things like that happening. What I would like to see happen also allows for that scenario to unfold and then act accordingly at which point you may have a fighting chance to bring in a big UFA. Right now, its just not going to happen. Sure we could attract some average top six vets with this team if the money is right. But I stand against that idea just as much as I stood against signing Nielson. Most times, those calibers of players do not have the shelf life to fulfill a UFA contract. The reality is, unless your elite a majority of the guys decline to much beyond around 30 in todays game. This isn't 1995 or even 2003, it is 2019 and the game has changed a lot.

Its easy to sit here and tell other people with opposing views that they aren't open minded and are in tunnel visioned on their ideas. But I don't see anyone on the other side of the argument willing to even consider my concerns. I believe picking someone up like EK could be a disaster for this team unless our young players and prospects develop faster and with higher success rate then you could reasonably expect. Not saying its not possible, just very unlikely. EK probably will not meet expectations on the 7 year 10-11 mill contract most expect he gets. We could get 3 years down the road with EK and be wishing we kept drafting high. I'm also a big believer in your highest contract sets the bar. Pretty hard to get your RFA's to buy into team friendly deals when you paid EK 11 million. I believe Tavares raises the price of the contracts in Toronto. How do you negotiate with Marner and tell him hes worth less than Tavares?

Another aspect of having great success in a cap league is signing your guys to the right prices. I believe bringing them up together gives you a good opportunity to lock in a few core pieces at good rates before the offense flourishes and numbers start demanding more money. There is a lot to think about when rebuilding a team in this league and I have tried my best to consider everything. With everything I have considered I favor waiting until the timing is right before adding big pieces.

I feel very comfortable with the Wings organization and development abilities that we would not turn out like an Edmonton or Arizona under a full dedicated rebuild.

Sorry for the long post.

Gotta work at building up depth and utilizing the AHL.

Detroit should still a cue from the Leafs rebuild during the Matthews draft season. Leafs brought in a bunch of depth vets like Winnik, Paranteau, etc. on 1 year deals and kept the kids like Brown, Nylander, Marner, Kapanen, etc. in the AHL and CHL.

It allowed the Leafs to keep the kids away from a tire fire, be promoted before they were truly ready and also gave them extra trade pieces at the deadline.

Adding 1 depth D and 1 or 2 forwards on 1 or 2 year deals would be ideal. Think names like Gunnarson, Hagelin, Panik, Boyle and they could also look to take on cap dumps with a year or two on their deal and gain an asset for doing so.
 
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Gniwder

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Oct 12, 2009
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Fair point. In a perfect world Kronwall hangs them up, and Yzerman finds a way to move Ericsson. All depends on if Yzerman believes we can be a playoff team next year, or not. If he's thinking playoffs, Stralman is an upgrade on what we heave. If he's thinking continue the rebuild, then he won't bring him in.
This team isn't making the playoffs next season, by the time the talent develops on this team Stralman will be over 35, and probably as slow as Kronwall is now. No thanks.

Yzerman shed all of the older players in his first 3 seasons in Tampa, hopefully he does the same here.
 

Ricelund

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You realize Parise is from Minneapolis MN right? Suter is from Wisconsin and even played college in Wisconsin. I'm almost 100% sure they made it known they picked Minnesota because they wanted to play at home. It is hard finding the articles to support this considering how long ago it was.
This is probably the most comprehensive article on the whole story.
 

SCD

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Apr 8, 2018
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With Yzerman's arrival, I think the EK premise is now dead.
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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Gotta work at building up depth and utilizing the AHL.

Detroit should still a cue from the Leafs rebuild during the Matthews draft season. Leafs brought in a bunch of depth vets like Winnik, Paranteau, etc. on 1 year deals and kept the kids like Brown, Nylander, Marner, Kapanen, etc. in the AHL and CHL.

It allowed the Leafs to keep the kids away from a tire fire, be promoted before they were truly ready and also gave them extra trade pieces at the deadline.

Adding 1 depth D and 1 or 2 forwards on 1 or 2 year deals would be ideal. Think names like Gunnarson, Hagelin, Panik, Boyle and they could also look to take on cap dumps with a year or two on their deal and gain an asset for doing so.
It'd make more sense to dump washed up vets for whatever we can get (Big E & Daley, Abby-if that's even possible) Helm has little value, so someone may offer a 3rd/4th during the season or by TDL. Nielsen has a bit more value than Helm but age & injuries are creeping up, so maybe a late 2nd by the TDL? Howie is year by year til we can sign a starter or Larsson is ready. I'd dump our garbage for a few free marginal assets (3rds-7ths) & Green for a 2nd&3rd? Signing 1 yr vets makes little sense, I'd rather use that to take on a 1 yr cap dump to provide "shelter for the kids" & acquire more FREE assets.
 
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7even

Offered and lost
Feb 1, 2012
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It'd make more sense to dump washed up vets for whatever we can get (Big E & Daley, Abby-if that's even possible) Helm has little value, so someone may offer a 3rd/4th during the season or by TDL. Nielsen has a bit more value than Helm but age & injuries are creeping up, so maybe a late 2nd by the TDL? Howie is year by year til we can sign a starter or Larsson is ready. I'd dump our garbage for a few free marginal assets (3rds-7ths) & Green for a 2nd&3rd? Signing 1 yr vets makes little sense, I'd rather use that to take on a 1 yr cap dump to provide "shelter for the kids" & acquire more FREE assets.

Not sure I follow. There's no net difference between those two options.
 

Steve Yzerlland

Registered User
Jul 18, 2018
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With Yzerman steering the ship, Anton Stralman to Detroit in the offseason seems is a huge possibility. He has connections with Yzerman, Tampa can't keep him due to the Cap, we need an upgrade on D and he will definitely be an upgrade, he's a Swede and Swedes love Detroit.

Seems like a perfect match.
Depending on cap hit I wouldn't mind this
 
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Hockeyfannnn91

Registered User
Jan 26, 2019
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Ya we don’t need stralman if anything maybe now yzerman can use his Tampa connections to trade Callahan and land us 2020 2nd + more picks and maybe we can flip Callahan after with 50% cap used it , time to collect a ton of picks for this draft and next

Maybe we can use a pick and trade for fox
 

7even

Offered and lost
Feb 1, 2012
18,622
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North Carolina
That's contingent upon actually finding buyers at the TDL...My way we're guaranteed to get a pick/prospect up front PLUS possibly another pick/prospect at the TDL...Huge difference.

I mean your way is also contingent upon finding a dance partner desperate enough to attach a pick or prospect to move a contract in the first place, which IIRC doesn't happen very often.

False dilemma anyways, should do both.
 

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