Speculation: What Trade Should Have Been Made, and Wasn't?

[LeapOnOver]

I would argue against using a football draft pick value chart to assign value to hockey draft picks. 2nd round picks are worth a lot more in football than hockey.

At the time, I argued that the package that the Islanders offered up sounded more sexy than it was.

Without the benefit of hindsight, I posed the question of "Who would you have taken with the extra picks?" in this thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=53053553

Not many people answered (since picks are always more valuable until you attach a name to it).

Popular choices include:

Matt Finn - Split time between the AHL/ECHL so far during his two pro seasons.

Martin Frk - Nice breakthrough season in the AHL in 2015-16, but will he be able to crack an NHL roster before he loses waiver exemption?

Brian Hart - Split time between AHL/ECHL in his rookie pro year.

Dalton Thrower - Spent majority of pro time in ECHL.

Nic Kerdiles - Development got derailed a bit from concussions.

One fan took the challenge and came up with:



I put out my hypothetical list knowing that it would more than likely look very underwhelming in a few years:



Were those hauls worth not picking the guy you want at #2?

Yeah, I didn't think that offer from Snow was all that overwhelming like some Islander fans did. Probably why Columbus didn't take it.

 

[BatVader]

Habs not trading the 9OA for top 6 help, like JVR.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Habs not trading the 9OA for top 6 help, like JVR.

I think the expansion draft really squished the picks-for-players market this year.

 

[McWeber]

I'm wondering how many Oilers fans wish Chia would have dealt RNH for Dumba instead of Hall for Larsson? Rumor is Chia wanted the Wild to add a 2nd round pick and the Wild got tired of waiting for Oilers management to get back to them with a decision.

The Wild moved on and the Oilers got screwed by the Devils.

I think I still prefer the Hall deal, Lucic really softened the blow and with our injury history it makes sense to keep some center depth now that we have it. Dumba could end up being better than Larsson but at present they are almost polar opposites in terms of the type of player they are with Larsson being the safer bet.

 

[BurgoShark]

Didn't read every post ... but a few more that come to mind are:

1. The Lindros deal to the Rangers instead of Flyers
2. Spezza deal to Nashville that he wouldn't waive for (Hornqvist/Spaling)
3. Lecavalier to Ottawa for Bonk, 18 year-old Spezza and other parts (S.Salo?) - agreed but Tampa owner wouldn't sign off on it
4. Marleau to Los Angeles to free up Heatley $$ (wouldn't waive)

 

[Soundwave]

I'm wondering how many Oilers fans wish Chia would have dealt RNH for Dumba instead of Hall for Larsson? Rumor is Chia wanted the Wild to add a 2nd round pick and the Wild got tired of waiting for Oilers management to get back to them with a decision.

The Wild moved on and the Oilers got screwed by the Devils.

I still prefer the Larsson deal to be honest. Larsson can play 20+ minutes right now, I think Dumba has good upside for sure but he would not be able to handle the role the Oilers would want him to play here. It didn't happen in a vacuum either, I think Chiarelli knew full well Lucic was signing in Edmonton and as such would slot right into Taylor Hall's LW spot.

Plus I still think center depth is more important than winger depth.

 

[caley]

My favourite rumored deal that never came to fruition is from 'Road Games' by Roy McGregor in which he discusses the Sens' drafting of Alex Daigle. Daigle was already a huge star in the province of Quebec, and Nordiques owner Marcel Aubut wanted to bring him to Quebec. I'm not sure a formal deal was ever proposed, but the suggestion by McGregor and Ottawa management is that the Sens could have returned Joe Sakic, Mats Sundin and perhaps something else (Peter Forsberg? Owen Nolan?) in return for the rights to Daigle but Ottawa management saw Daigle as a superstar and refused to move him.

In the same book they talk about how the Sens scouts were split on who to take first overall. While testing out a new scoreboard and putting an image that read "Senators #1 draft pick Alex Daigle" and management/ownership loved it, then tried the same message with Chris Pronger and decided it didn't have the same impact, and this weighed heavily in favour of taking Daigle.

 

[VainGretzky]

Rumours out of Edmonton at the time was that it was ownership(pre-Katz) that was pissed off and wanted their bonus money back.

This is correct I hate Lowe but he almost resigned over this at the time. The deal was made but Lowe had to get approval from the ownership on any trade . The ownership told Lowe to ask for Comries bonus money on top of the deal which squashed it. Why Owners can be the worst enemies to a teams growth.

 

[VainGretzky]

I'm wondering how many Oilers fans wish Chia would have dealt RNH for Dumba instead of Hall for Larsson? Rumor is Chia wanted the Wild to add a 2nd round pick and the Wild got tired of waiting for Oilers management to get back to them with a decision.

The Wild moved on and the Oilers got screwed by the Devils.

Dumba for RNH would be the same screw overand worse Dumba is a huge step down from Larsson. . And I would not move RNH for career high 29 point runt Spurgeron as well.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Hamhuis to Dallas @ the deadline as well as Vrbata for anything.

 

[actionhank1786]

My favourite rumored deal that never came to fruition is from 'Road Games' by Roy McGregor in which he discusses the Sens' drafting of Alex Daigle. Daigle was already a huge star in the province of Quebec, and Nordiques owner Marcel Aubut wanted to bring him to Quebec. I'm not sure a formal deal was ever proposed, but the suggestion by McGregor and Ottawa management is that the Sens could have returned Joe Sakic, Mats Sundin and perhaps something else (Peter Forsberg? Owen Nolan?) in return for the rights to Daigle but Ottawa management saw Daigle as a superstar and refused to move him.

In the same book they talk about how the Sens scouts were split on who to take first overall. While testing out a new scoreboard and putting an image that read "Senators #1 draft pick Alex Daigle" and management/ownership loved it, then tried the same message with Chris Pronger and decided it didn't have the same impact, and this weighed heavily in favour of taking Daigle.

That would have been insane to have the Senators get that sort of return. Or Pronger even. I love these "alternate timeline" type deals.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Hamhuis to Dallas @ the deadline as well as Vrbata for anything.

that is one that got my attention-as I posted before. Depends on who is trying to explaining it--one thing happened on deadline day that has me scratching my head--why did either Linden or Benning call the owner to talk about the deal? Vancouver was a none playoff team and had a player on an expiring contract--how much interference are the owners giving the management of the team

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

But we signed Staal for three years. Doesn't mean an RNH deal is impossible, but much less of a need now.

It will be again once you see Staal's numbers. Yuck.

 

[57special]

It will be again once you see Staal's numbers. Yuck.

NO ONE in MN is counting on Staal to be a #1C. More like a #2/3. Signing will only be a fail if he becomes our #4C.

Having said that, no one is thrilled with the signing here. Surely we could have traded a young top 4 D+ for a youngish top 6 player?

 

[thestonedkoala]

Brodin has got to be the most overrated dman on these boards. He is entirely dependant on Ryan Suter for success.

Except when Suter was suspended or injured and Brodin became Minnesota's number 1 defenseman and played magnificently. Not to mention how good of a defensive defenseman he is. Points aren't always the best measurement for a defenseman. Brodin and Minnesota's defense is criminally underrated.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

NO ONE in MN is counting on Staal to be a #1C. More like a #2/3. Signing will only be a fail if he becomes our #4C.

Having said that, no one is thrilled with the signing here. Surely we could have traded a young top 4 D+ for a youngish top 6 player?

No no I don't think anyone's counting on that. I just greatly dislike the player at this point in his career and was shocked he got anything past a one year deal, and wasn't even sure he'd get the money he did (even in this wacky market). Just don't like him at all and personally in terms of getting offensive help I would've found any other avenue and took that instead.

 

[57special]

No no I don't think anyone's counting on that. I just greatly dislike the player at this point in his career and was shocked he got anything past a one year deal, and wasn't even sure he'd get the money he did (even in this wacky market). Just don't like him at all and personally in terms of getting offensive help I would've found any other avenue and took that instead.

We'll see. Still would far rather spend 10M for three years on him than pay three times ( and more) for players like Backes, Eriksson, and KO. Any happiness over The Staal signing is more about the fact that we DIDN'T sign one of those three. Two of them were MN boys, and there was a strong possibility they would return here on retirement contracts.

Still would rather we didn't sign any C but Cullen ( as a high quality #3/4C) on an EXTREMELY REASONABLE one year deal. At least he has proven that he still has legs, plus he is amenable to playing back here in MN.

 

[Viqsi]

Can't imagine that CBJ would have taken Reinhart, so the deal would have potentially worked out for both clubs.

Filip Forsberg? Morgan Rielly? Matthew Dumba? Jacob Trouba?

Amusingly, we were rumored to be possibly taking Filip Forsberg at #2 overall. Murray was who we were targeting at #1 overall, though, so when he fell to us even after we lost the lottery, a move was astronomically unlikely to happen.

Bonus Fun Fact: even with all that time lost to injuries that folks like to go on about, Ryan Murray by himself has well over triple the number of NHL games played than all the NYI draft picks in 2012 - 160 to 46.

Technically, it wasn't impossible for Columbus to have come out of that with the advantage. I suspect the case most hindsight types would try to make would involve pointing out that in the third round, Shayne Gosthisbehere and Colton Parayko were picked up thirteen and twenty-one picks respectively after the NYI 3rd - or, barring that, that 26 picks after the NYI 2nd Damon Severson was picked. But that would have been one hell of a long shot. And just about any other outcome would have left the Jackets worse off.

But of course, according to the echo chamber at the time, Columbus was insane and incompetent to turn that offer down. Yep. Sure was.

Yeah, I didn't think that offer from Snow was all that overwhelming like some Islander fans did. Probably why Columbus didn't take it.

Losing all your lottery tickets does look pretty dramatic until you realize that their value goes down exponentially.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

My favourite rumored deal that never came to fruition is from 'Road Games' by Roy McGregor in which he discusses the Sens' drafting of Alex Daigle. Daigle was already a huge star in the province of Quebec, and Nordiques owner Marcel Aubut wanted to bring him to Quebec. I'm not sure a formal deal was ever proposed, but the suggestion by McGregor and Ottawa management is that the Sens could have returned Joe Sakic, Mats Sundin and perhaps something else (Peter Forsberg? Owen Nolan?) in return for the rights to Daigle but Ottawa management saw Daigle as a superstar and refused to move him.

In the same book they talk about how the Sens scouts were split on who to take first overall. While testing out a new scoreboard and putting an image that read "Senators #1 draft pick Alex Daigle" and management/ownership loved it, then tried the same message with Chris Pronger and decided it didn't have the same impact, and this weighed heavily in favour of taking Daigle.

Near the end of the book, wasn't it stated that Quebec's GM thought he had a deal in place but speculated that it fell apart because Ottawa lost its financing for the arena. Rod Bryden contacted people in marketing in order to see how drafting Daigle might improve their ability to find new financiers, and as a result, he kept the pick?