Speculation: What to do?

[Alklha]

I agree with a lot that has been said. I thought the Blues were a cup contender when they had the likes of Backes, Steen, Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Tj Oshie, Tarasenko, with I think Allen and Elliot ? I believe they were under Hitch at this point ? I could not believe that this "juggernaut" of a team could not do it. So is this just how things are in the cap era now ? A team like St. Louis goes through 5-6 years of being a top contender, and then dissolves into an "also ran" due to cap issues ?

This isn't a cap issue.

From a roster standpoint? Maybe I'm being a homer, but we should be one of the best regular season teams in the West. Playoff success with our goaltending isn't going to happen, but we should have enough to overcome it during the regular season.

Last year we missed the playoffs by a point and that was with a lot more issues with forward talent and insisting on playing a significantly injured Bouwmeester for 3 months. We should be better, but our structure is all over the place this season.

We wasted our best years to really compete because our GM and coach were utterly useless with our goalies, and still are.

 

[KingBran]

All you guys arguing about the viability of the city and saying players don't like STL and its not a hockey hotbed...

Wasnt it just a couple years ago that 5 kids were drafted from the STL area in the first round and a half?

Also, I believe STL has one of the biggest (was once THE biggest) set of alumni in town.

STL and National media give the town a bad rap and don't promote what it does right enough. Like hockey. There will always be things to complain about with ANY city. Just a lot of self-haters in STL.

Thats how I see it. I liked STL when I lived there.

 

[Brian39]

All you guys arguing about the viability of the city and saying players don't like STL and its not a hockey hotbed...

Wasnt it just a couple years ago that 5 kids were drafted from the STL area in the first round and a half?

Also, I believe STL has one of the biggest (was once THE biggest) set of alumni in town.

STL and National media give the town a bad rap and don't promote what it does right enough. Like hockey. There will always be things to complain about with ANY city. Just a lot of self-haters in STL.

Thats how I see it. I liked STL when I lived there.

I don't think anyone is arguing that NHL players don't want to be here because hockey is unpopular. I think the "no one will come to STL" fear is overblown, but it isn't based on how NHLers perceive hockey's popularity in the area. It's the weather, the size of the city compared to some other markets, the crime/poverty in areas pretty damn close to the arena, etc.

I can't criticize. I don't dislike St. Louis and I grew up in the suburbs. But I prefer living in Colorado as an adult (even though it is financially more difficult). If I had millions of dollars, choosing a city over St. Louis would be a no-brainer to me.

 

[TK 421]

In light of recent tire fire season I'm especially pissed about Perron having 3 more years of term and Bozak with another 2 years of term. We already had Steen with term to deal with and now these 2 as well.

What are the chances of moving these 3 and at what point would their contracts be most attractive to other teams?

 

[Stealth JD]

In light of recent tire fire season I'm especially pissed about Perron having 3 more years of term and Bozak with another 2 years of term. We already had Steen with term to deal with and now these 2 as well.

What are the chances of moving these 3 and at what point would their contracts be most attractive to other teams?

The off-season moves this year sucked, aside from ROR. Had Armstrong just sat pat and not signed Perry, not signed Bozak and not signed Maroon they'd be in MUCH better shape assuming they're still able to move that package to Buffalo for ROR. Those moves contributed to the Blues being slower and defensively deficient...but hey...at least the power-play was smoking for a few weeks, am i right?

 

[TK 421]

The off-season moves this year sucked, aside from ROR. Had Armstrong just sat pat and not signed Perry, not signed Bozak and not signed Maroon they'd be in MUCH better shape assuming they're still able to move that package to Buffalo for ROR. Those moves contributed to the Blues being slower and defensively deficient...but hey...at least the power-play was smoking for a few weeks, am i right?

Lol man I don't even know what to say anymore. Anytime Armstrong gets near July 1st I'm cringing...

One of my personal nightmares was signing Bozak...

Perron for 4 years very reminiscent of Berglund.

Maroon...completely pointless.

 

[Majorityof1]

Perron is a good deal. He's on pace for 25+Gs and 50 points at $4M. What UFA aside from Tavares was available to provide that much bang for the buck? We needed to sign someone if we were going to ship off Berglund and Sobotka which everyone wanted. We needed a RHS. Bozak I get, because we ended up getting RoR and he become redundant. Maroon I get as well. I don't get complaining about Perron though.

 

[TK 421]

Perron is a good deal. He's on pace for 25+Gs and 50 points at $4M. What UFA aside from Tavares was available to provide that much bang for the buck? We needed to sign someone if we were going to ship off Berglund and Sobotka which everyone wanted. We needed a RHS. Bozak I get, because we ended up getting RoR and he become redundant. Maroon I get as well. I don't get complaining about Perron though.

Yeah it's less the individuals and more that we suck that has me lamenting. So what do you think?

What's the break point on when those 3 might be more attractive to other teams?

 

[Brian39]

I really, really don't understand the Perron hate.

He's on pace for 49 points, 30 of which are at 5 on 5. He's the "pestiest" guy we have and actively wants to be in St. Louis. His D has been adequate at worst and I'd argue that it has been slightly above average. He is a RHS (a need), can play RW (a need) and is capable of producing on any line in the top 9.

How is that not worth $4 mil per year? There is an argument to be made that his contract is top 5 on the team. Reminiscent of Berglund? He is on pace to finish with more points than Bergie has had since 2011 and is also on pace to break Bergie's career best.

He's far from a perfect player, which is true of literally every NHLer making $4 mil outside of ELCs and bridge contracts.

 

[carter333167]

Tank, sell and wait 6 months to start getting excited for the draft.

 

[KingBran]

I don't think anyone is arguing that NHL players don't want to be here because hockey is unpopular. I think the "no one will come to STL" fear is overblown, but it isn't based on how NHLers perceive hockey's popularity in the area. It's the weather, the size of the city compared to some other markets, the crime/poverty in areas pretty damn close to the arena, etc.

I can't criticize. I don't dislike St. Louis and I grew up in the suburbs. But I prefer living in Colorado as an adult (even though it is financially more difficult). If I had millions of dollars, choosing a city over St. Louis would be a no-brainer to me.

I wasn't suggesting you are chained down to the city and forced to live in the hood. Pretty sure all those people in STL who have millions of dollars do just fine and the athletes don't normally stay in the off-season. I mean theres lots of boring / poverty filled cities that sports stadiums are at. This isn't a st louis thing.

Two of the top 25 richest suburbs in major cities the USA are in STL. I believe it was Ladue and Creve Coeur.

I lived in CO, just outside of Denver for well more than half my life. I was born there. I saw it go from a great place to live to over-crowded and super expensive. So my perception of it is a bit different from people who arent natives. I still like it but I don't miss living there. And just like STL theres bad spots. The KKK and the MS-13 gang have a big presence and history there. I have a friend that got beat up on the 16th street mall on a Saturday evening at 6pm with tons of people around and they took his wallet. S**t happens everywhere.

But like STL, I have spent a lot of time there and I have lived in both places I don't think I would personally be upset making millions of dollars playing as a pro athlete in either town. In the offseason I could do what I wanted. During the season I would think I would be more worried about winning a championship than where I am going after the game or what place in town I am going to hang out at on my day off.

Just saying it doesn't really matter where your team's home is. Especially as an athlete. You can live in the posh areas of any city during the season, retire in your 30s or 40s and go live in your paradise. Not every player needs downtown clubs and such to go party at after games. It really just depends on who you are. But there are in fact lots of millionares that live in and like STL. Just like I am sure there are some in Detroit, Chicago and other "bad" cities in the US. Maybe you should email them and tell them they aren't being a millionare correctly. Lol.

 

[TK 421]

Ok guys I think you're focusing on Perron a bit too much here. I don't like the term, it's not the money.

My general question still hasn't been answered by anyone so again, when would these contracts be attractive to other teams? Are we stuck with them until they expire? Or would teams like any of them and when do you think their contract would be palatable?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Those moves contributed to the Blues being slower and defensively deficient...but hey...at least the power-play was smoking for a few weeks, am i right?

Damn right. PP was electric, we were scoring goals left and right, ... defense was [still is] abysmal, Allen was a nutcase even by his own standards, we were dogshit at even strength, but damn it the offense [as long as we were on the PP] was fantastic - and that's all that mattered.

Maroon...completely pointless.

\
Well, he's going to be a 20-25 goal scorer who helps key our PP and scores easily 10-15 on the PP alone by camping out in front of the net.

[And yes, there were - maybe even still are - Blues fans who touted that and believed it.]

I really, really don't understand the Perron hate.

He's on pace for 49 points, 30 of which are at 5 on 5. He's the "pestiest" guy we have and actively wants to be in St. Louis. His D has been adequate at worst and I'd argue that it has been slightly above average. He is a RHS (a need), can play RW (a need) and is capable of producing on any line in the top 9.

How is that not worth $4 mil per year? There is an argument to be made that his contract is top 5 on the team. Reminiscent of Berglund? He is on pace to finish with more points than Bergie has had since 2011 and is also on pace to break Bergie's career best.

He's far from a perfect player, which is true of literally every NHLer making $4 mil outside of ELCs and bridge contracts.

I think it's a few things. Yeah, he's a "pesty" kind of guy but he has a penchant for taking totally boneheaded plays at inopportune times, especially in the offensive zone. He tends to be really streaky, where he'll go like 5-7-12 in 9 games and make you think he's a candidate to be a top-line kind of guy, and then do nothing for the next 8 and make you wonder why 4th-line guys are playing better than him. When his defense is on, like you said it's passable; when his defense isn't on, it's Bouwmeester-bad. Whatever he does in the regular season that looks good, he's mailed it in for the postseason so many times now you don't care about the RS production - you want him to do some of that from Game 83 on. [And I don't mean racking up secondary assists that are largely "I touched the puck" and didn't actually contribute to the scoring opportunity.]

I agree, for the RS we could do worse for that salary - but I think we're expecting to get to the playoffs and want to do something there, and don't want a guy who's a free rider when the games that really matter get played.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Ok guys I think you're focusing on Perron a bit too much here. I don't like the term, it's not the money.

My general question still hasn't been answered by anyone so again, when would these contracts be attractive to other teams? Are we stuck with them until they expire? Or would teams like any of them and when do you think their contract would be palatable?

Every contract is tradeable. The question is how tradeable they are. IMO,

Bozak - not very tradeable; at $5M for a guy who's currently 3-8-11 and 2-7-9 of that came in a 9-game stretch, that's a tough contract to take on for another 2 years unless you think he's just miscast and you can put him with guys who can produce or you want him for his faceoff skills and you really can't find someone else who can give you that and equal or better offense on a better contract.

Maroon - very tradeable; there's always someone, somewhere who's a sucker for a 6'3", 225 lb. LW for their postseason roster. Plus, at $1.75M for just this year, he's attractive for teams looking for a cheap add with the potential to get some upside surprise.

Perron - somewhat tradeable. 4 years, $4M per is a little long for term at this point, but in the last 2 years he's making closer to $3.5M and $3M and that's probably palatable to a smaller-market team on the rise looking for a 3rd-line guy to get them through the regular season and into the playoffs. Probably not tradeable immediately, but starting around the '19-20 trade deadline he becomes more attractive.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

I'm not sure that it matters really. I think we need to start asking the question of 'Do players outside and currently in the organization view St. Louis as a good city to play for an extended period of time and raise a family'?
Let's be realistic about it. Regardless of what's true or media fabrication- and it goes both ways. St. Louis is viewed as a middling, downward treading economic black hole that is unsafe and has serious racial tension and disparities.
Is it pure coincidence and timid ownership tactics that have cost the Cardinals from landing difference making free agents the last 4 years?
Perron, for whatever reason loves it here and re-signed. Maroon wanted to be close to his son. Bozak was offered a ridiculous amount of money for what he is. Schenn and ROR were traded here without much choice in the matter. Tarasenkos body language has read as a man who wants out of this town the last couple years and his play has started to reflect it bit by bit as well.
This is all my own humble opinion of course, but it is what I believe is a solid root of the problem.
My point being that if 90% of your off season moves are made through trades it's hard to take measure on who really wants to be here and how much motivation they have to play for the city they are in. This teams problems are much deeper than front office, coaching, and ownership. I believe St. Louis is viewed as unmanned fire hose with serious social and economic issues.

Lots of projection there.

I’ve lived all over the West Coast. I moved back to STL for quality of life. Some folks wouldn’t want to move here. I’ve met folks like this during hiring events. Hockey players, however, can live anywhere in the off season. I believe most of the Blues rent during the season and return home during the off season. Some of the ones with wives and kids live here full time.

Tell me, are places like Clayton, Ladue, Town & Country cesspits?

I don’t think so.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Tell me, are places like Clayton, Ladue, Town & Country cesspits?

I don’t think so.

I think if you ask people in Ladue, they'll tell you Clayton is a cesspit. Of course, I also think people in Clayton will tell you Ladue is a cesspit.

 

[i aint Dunn yet]

roll into a fetal position and yell ... no mas

 

[BlueDream]

St. Louis has some nice suburbs. It's the actual city and downtown that are hot garbage for the most part.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I’m starting to become a Dach fan. I didn’t watch The WHL much outside of Seattle the last few years and he flew under my radar. He’s the real deal. Think Ryan O’Reilly with more offensive ability - faster and better passing. Big but doesn’t flaunt it outside of puck protection.

This year looks to be a good year to suck.