Speculation: What to do?

[Brendonhayden]

my fellow blues fans what do you think they should do?

Rebuilding
This imo would be the obvious choice if we had our first for both this year and next, which even though we don’t I think with all the talent they could trade away we could salvage that one pick and get a pick high in the draft.

Retool
This would be kind of giving up on the season and shaking the core by up by trading on of the key guys. for the most part though stick with the roster we have for the future.

Try saving the season
This would most likely consist of trading for a Lhd and a goalie imo to try to save the season and hope to sneak into a playoff spot

Click to read more...

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

This team needs a retool, but this season could be turned around* if the right retooling trades are made.


* the trades and bringing in a high end full time coach would have to happen within the next couple weeks

 

[AjaxManifesto]

This is a culture issue. A losers culture. We need a full rebuild.

 

[HolyJumpin]

Veteran Core Players to absolutely keep on the team:
Tarasenko, Pietrangelo, Parayko, Ryan O'Reilly, Schenn, kinda Perron.

Prospects to maybe look forward to next season:
Kyrou, Kostin, Mikkola, Husso/Binnington, our lottery pick, maybe Bokk

Players off the team:
Jay Bouwmeester, Gunnarsson, Bortuzzo, Johnson, Maroon

Players the team should be willing to sell:
Schwartz, Steen, Bozak, Barbashev, Blais, Sundquist, Sanford, Edmundson, Dunn

Players the team probably can't trade:
Fabbri, Allen

I really loathe putting Schwarz in a list of players that I think we should look to trade but he's one of the few players on the team that I think the Blues can sell high on. He gets injured a lot and I worry that he's going to lose his touch really quick and unexpectedly. I also think the team needs to have the sacrificial forward to get a really decent package for and he really fits that role. Would much rather sell Steen and everyone else on that list beforehand but I don't know what we get for a lot of them but a pat on the back and a mediocre pick.

I don't think that this is necessarily a rebuild. A rebuild would be trading Tarasenko or Pietrangelo in my mind. Not to mention we have 3 very decent centers for the foreseeable future, I can't imagine the Blues blowing it up. It is a problem on LHD and RW, positions Army hasn't addressed in YEARS and it is a problem in net which is fairly solvable.

 

[trevorftw]

I think a rebuild might be necessary. That really sucks about that 1st going to Buffalo.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

An extended retool. Trade one or two core pieces for two high end prospects a piece. Draft a player in the top 10. Let the kids all play next year and hope to be back in the playoffs starting in 2 years. And at that point have the talent that will keep us in the playoffs for the next decade.

 

[HighNote]

I think a rebuild might be necessary. That really sucks about that 1st going to Buffalo.

It rocks that the first went to Buffalo because we have O'Reilly for 5 years.

 

[TK 421]

Easily the retool option.

Rebuild is out of the question between having an owner who wants to win now and the age range of our core group. Stillman isn't going to authorize it nor should he.

Trying to save the season was a good idea 4 weeks ago but not so much now. We've simply given up too many points to bank on a miracle run. Not that it couldn't happen of course, but it would be a long shot just to get in let alone do anything once we're there.

So bottom line for me is selling off expiring vets and attempting to move vets with term like Steen, Perron and Bozak. If they are made available now it could result in moving one of them which would help give us cap space to make other adjustments. Moving the guys with term is going to be tough in theory but it's still a possibility especially if you consider it an ongoing process that stretches beyond this season. Bozak for instance may be much more attractive to another team with at least 1.5 seasons of his current deal eaten up. Then again we may have to wait until that deal is down to just one season left so unfortunately we may be stuck with all 3 for awhile still. In the meantime we have cheap talent to offset those vet salaries coming up like Kyrou at some point and Thomas now (lottery pick this year as well).

The transformation of the LD was already happening anyway and so far the results have been brutal. Bouw and Gunn are expiring and we pretty clearly need a quality LD brought in. Prior to this season I didn't think we needed to go outside the org but that looks like something we should do as a priority. A new starting goalie should also be a priority.

As far as the forwards go I think a remix is in order and this is where there could be a potential hockey trade as part of the solution.

A new coaching staff is a must for me and that was before this train wreck started......

 

[cardinalnation]

I would like to vote in this but I am just not sure. I think the time is coming up fast for blues management to make a decision on whether they are done for this season or not. If they are out I think Steen and Bouwmeester need to both go for whatever salary relief you can get. Other guys I would have no problem moving Brayden Schenn, Jaden Schwartz and Bozak. Maroon too but he only brings you 1.75 Mil in salarie space. Right now they can't do anything because they have no wiggle room at all. I really don't think you can retool this on the fly without moving some of the core people. If you move Perron you lose one of the few high skill players we have. I would keep him for that reason. This team needs and infusion of energy and old time hockey. Time to put on the foil boys!

 

[carter333167]

1. Find a coach.
2. Figure out if there is an issue in the locker room and, if there is some sort of civil war, rectify it through trades.
3. Trade at least one core guy and perhaps two core guys.
4. Do not trade away any more high picks.
5. Seriously consider firing Army. Even if you like him, he must be feeling desperate at this point and desperation breeds poor decisions.
6. Find a goaltender.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I'm honestly trying to figure out how you retool this roster, given its cap situation. I'm also trying to figure out how you do that without mortgaging more of the future.

If we had room to play with, fine - then it gets somewhat easier. But I've said for months now that this franchise is at a very precarious position and it could easily degenerate into a quasi-rebuild that I think takes longer and is more difficult than a lot of people realize. I think we have good pieces, but it's one of those rare situations where you put a bunch of good players together and they don't mesh. The Rangers were in this boat a handful of years back. Gretzky/Hull is a great example from Blues history. It happens - not often, but it does, and at that point you may have to add by subtracting.

To carter's points:

1. Berube isn't the guy going forward unless this roster gets turned over a fair amount. [Which implies a semi-major retooling.] I have eventual apologies to make to Flyers fans who said as much. Berube's style is a hard-driving, physical, grinding kind of play ... which is great, if your roster is built for that. It's great, when you've got kids and you're getting them used to the pro game. This roster, ... is not built for it. He would have been perfect for the '15-16 and prior teams [also known as the "Ken Hitchcock (is ruining this team) era"]. This group of guys? No.

2. If there's [still?] an issue in the locker room, it begs the question of why the GM hasn't fixed it by now. I think if you try to fix it, it's going to take more than one trade and within a couple you're moving into "more than retooling."

3. See my initial comments above. It's "change for change's sake" and I don't know what that accomplishes. Let's be smart about this.

4. Totally agreed. OK, sure - we've gotten 1st-round picks back from Washington [flipped to Philadelphia], Pittsburgh [because now #31 is a 1st-round pick] and Winnipeg. We've also traded 3 of our own last 6 1st-round picks, and one of the next two is guaranteed to go. Yeah, we've had 4 1st-round picks and 4 2nd-round picks the last 4 drafts; we've picked in the 3rd round exactly once since 2013, when we took Jake Walman in '14. Quit shipping picks for alleged short-term fixes, let's start actually building depth. And, [gasp!] let's start figuring out how to develop guys at the AHL level for the first time in decades.

5. I've opined on this considerably, any more is beating a dead horse.

6. Agreed. I'd also add, start being smart about who you're having be the #1 guy. Halak got outplayed by Elliott and then went into a fog; Elliott was never trusted to be the #1 guy, and when he had issues it was see, we knew he couldn't be the #1 guy - get him the hell out followed by well shit, we gotta turn to someone, ... f***, I guess he's the guy for now. Allen has continually had issues, but got anointed future #1 and was getting [and keeping] that spot come hell or high water. Husso was all but anointed future #1 after last year, while Binnington was pretty much dogshit to a number of fans. Open up the net to competition, let the best guy win, and trust him and see what he can do - but for crying out loud, show some faith where it's deserved.

 

[BlueDream]

1. Find a coach.
2. Figure out if there is an issue in the locker room and, if there is some sort of civil war, rectify it through trades.
3. Trade at least one core guy and perhaps two core guys.
4. Do not trade away any more high picks.
5. Seriously consider firing Army. Even if you like him, he must be feeling desperate at this point and desperation breeds poor decisions.
6. Find a goaltender.

Maybe I’m splitting hairs too much here, but I’ll be sick if “find a goalie” is the very last thing on our list. That’s exactly what we did this past offseason to completely ignore it, and we are paying for it big time. Allen/Johnson is a horrid tandem and this has to be one of the first things we address. Don’t see how we can justify trading a guy like Petro/Parayko/Schwartz/Tank before finding a netminder that isn’t consistently among the bottom 10 at his position.

For the rest of the season, I’d sell off some veterans for picks if teams make decent offers for them.

In the offseason, Stillman needs to decide right away if Army is the guy or not. Once the GM decision is finalized, finding a legit coach and legit goalie are the next 2 things. Everything else is secondary and can be evaluated after that.

 

[TruBlu]

This season is over. We need a complete wipe of the coaching staff. JBo will be gone, and we will probably be able to sell off some players at the TDL for some nice picks/prospects. I don't want to sell off the core. We have too many good players to just call it quits right now.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

1. Hire Q

2. Trade for a Goalie

3. Trade Bouwmeester, Gunnarsson, Bortuzzo, and Allen for whatever we can get.

3. Draft top-5

4. Sign Fabbs and Ed to steals of a deal due to their down year.

5. Sign one of Panarin or Stone in the off-season.

6. Ditch Bozak, don’t re-sign Maroon

7. Run one of these lineups next season

Panarin O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Schenn Fabbri
Steen Thomas Perron
Sundqvist Barbashev Blais

OR

Fabbri O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Schenn Stone
Steen Thomas Perron
Sundqvist Barbashev Blais

Dunn Pietrangelo
Edmundson Parayko
Walman Schmaltz

We have Kyrou, Husso, Kostin, and Walman to look forward to next year. Possibly whoever we draft top-5 if we manage Hughes, Kakko, etc.

We should not blow it up this year, but should instead be looking to sell at the deadline and accommodate cap transfers that expire at the end of the season. The only contracts that may be an issue for us going forward are Allen and Bozak. Getting rid of either should really open up an opportunity to go fishing for big fish in FA. Silfverberg is another RHS candidate that we might be able to grab on the cheap if we end up selling Steen or Perron.

Honestly, the only thing I’m worried about is getting a replacement for Allen. If we can do that, then we should be able to move forward next year, even if at minimum making the playoffs.

 

[TruBlu]

Maybe I’m splitting hairs too much here, but I’ll be sick if “find a goalie” is the very last thing on our list. That’s exactly what we did this past offseason to completely ignore it, and we are paying for it big time. Allen/Johnson is a horrid tandem and this has to be one of the first things we address. Don’t see how we can justify trading a guy like Petro/Parayko/Schwartz/Tank before finding a netminder that isn’t consistently among the bottom 10 at his position.

I see coaching as the biggest problem. The whole coaching staff needs to go. That won't happen until the offseason. I also think that is the best time to look for a goalie. Who do you see that is currently available that won't cost us somewhere else on the team? The hardest part for all of us going forward is to realize that we are at a vulnerable position in any trade that isn't going to lead to a rebuild.

 

[TK 421]

1. Hire Q

2. Trade for a Goalie

3. Trade Bouwmeester, Gunnarsson, Bortuzzo, and Allen for whatever we can get.

3. Draft top-5

4. Sign Fabbs and Ed to steals of a deal due to their down year.

5. Sign one of Panarin or Stone in the off-season.

6. Ditch Bozak, don’t re-sign Maroon

7. Run one of these lineups next season

Panarin O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Schenn Fabbri
Steen Thomas Perron
Sundqvist Barbashev Blais

OR

Fabbri O’Reilly Tarasenko
Schwartz Schenn Stone
Steen Thomas Perron
Sundqvist Barbashev Blais

Dunn Pietrangelo
Edmundson Parayko
Walman Schmaltz

We have Kyrou, Husso, Kostin, and Walman to look forward to next year. Possibly whoever we draft top-5 if we manage Hughes, Kakko, etc.

We should not blow it up this year, but should instead be looking to sell at the deadline and accommodate cap transfers that expire at the end of the season. The only contracts that may be an issue for us going forward are Allen and Bozak. Getting rid of either should really open up an opportunity to go fishing for big fish in FA. Silfverberg is another RHS candidate that we might be able to grab on the cheap if we end up selling Steen or Perron.

Honestly, the only thing I’m worried about is getting a replacement for Allen. If we can do that, then we should be able to move forward next year, even if at minimum making the playoffs.

Stone is another gem just waiting to be plucked out of Ottawa, that is something that's been of interest to several of us here for a while now. Perhaps there's a hockey trade to be had there if the Blues could get an extension done with Stone. Obviously salary would be going back and I'm not even sure if this is even feasible given our Cap situation but interesting nonetheless given Melnyk's cheap nature.

 

[HighNote]

I'm all for upgrading between the pipes, and I don't believe Allen is the guy for this team, but I do feel bad for him and Johnson because they have not been bad this year, in fact the last few weeks I'd go as far as to say they've been pretty solid considering the circumstances, yet they still take a lot of the blame for where we are in the standings. It's got to be tough on them having to make such difficult saves and having to face fantastic scoring chances as often as they do. It must suck knowing that the other team's best players have free reign over the middle of the ice all game. I bet you Laine can't wait to play us again next week.

Our defensive system has been leaps and bounds worse than our goaltending this year. In the end, we do need a better goalie, I just feel bad about how often we leave ours out to dry and I'd hate to see that happen to whoever the poor soul is that replaces Allen.

 

[Stealth JD]

All they can do is take their medicine, and try to improve while the coaching situation gets sorted out. There's no cohesion between the players or sense of chemistry building between particular guys. If they could get any kind of consistency they'd at least have hope of building some success.

 

[TruBlu]

I'm all for upgrading between the pipes, and I don't believe Allen is the guy for this team, but I do feel bad for him and Johnson because they have not been bad this year, in fact the last few weeks I'd go as far as to say they've been pretty solid considering the circumstances, yet they still take a lot of the blame for where we are in the standings. It's got to be tough on them having to make such difficult saves and having to face fantastic scoring chances as often as they do. It must suck knowing that the other team's best players have free reign over the middle of the ice all game. I bet you Laine can't wait to play us again next week.

Our defensive system has been leaps and bounds worse than our goaltending this year. In the end, we do need a better goalie, I just feel bad about how often we leave ours out to dry and I'd hate to see that happen to whoever the poor soul is that replaces Allen.

It's a Blues curse. I've been watching this team for over two decades. The goalie always ends up being the guy who catches the flack. Allen has not proven to be consistent, but he is a capable number one. Johnson was the next guy to outplay Allen (until he wasn't). I understand people on this board wanting to get rid of him, but I think a lot of them don't realize how bad our D has been. I'm just waiting to continue the moving chairs that is our goalie situation.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Stone is another gem just waiting to be plucked out of Ottawa, that is something that's been of interest to several of us here for a while now. Perhaps there's a hockey trade to be had there if the Blues could get an extension done with Stone. Obviously salary would be going back and I'm not even sure if this is even feasible given our Cap situation but interesting nonetheless given Melnyk's cheap nature.

Why trade for him when we can just try to sign him in the off-season? No rush and why hurt the tank?

 

[Vladdy the Impaler]

This season is over. We need a complete wipe of the coaching staff. JBo will be gone, and we will probably be able to sell off some players at the TDL for some nice picks/prospects. I don't want to sell off the core. We have too many good players to just call it quits right now.

 

[Celtic Note]

I'm honestly trying to figure out how you retool this roster, given its cap situation. I'm also trying to figure out how you do that without mortgaging more of the future.

If we had room to play with, fine - then it gets somewhat easier. But I've said for months now that this franchise is at a very precarious position and it could easily degenerate into a quasi-rebuild that I think takes longer and is more difficult than a lot of people realize. I think we have good pieces, but it's one of those rare situations where you put a bunch of good players together and they don't mesh. The Rangers were in this boat a handful of years back. Gretzky/Hull is a great example from Blues history. It happens - not often, but it does, and at that point you may have to add by subtracting.

To carter's points:

1. Berube isn't the guy going forward unless this roster gets turned over a fair amount. [Which implies a semi-major retooling.] I have eventual apologies to make to Flyers fans who said as much. Berube's style is a hard-driving, physical, grinding kind of play ... which is great, if your roster is built for that. It's great, when you've got kids and you're getting them used to the pro game. This roster, ... is not built for it. He would have been perfect for the '15-16 and prior teams [also known as the "Ken Hitchcock (is ruining this team) era"]. This group of guys? No.

2. If there's [still?] an issue in the locker room, it begs the question of why the GM hasn't fixed it by now. I think if you try to fix it, it's going to take more than one trade and within a couple you're moving into "more than retooling."

3. See my initial comments above. It's "change for change's sake" and I don't know what that accomplishes. Let's be smart about this.

4. Totally agreed. OK, sure - we've gotten 1st-round picks back from Washington [flipped to Philadelphia], Pittsburgh [because now #31 is a 1st-round pick] and Winnipeg. We've also traded 3 of our own last 6 1st-round picks, and one of the next two is guaranteed to go. Yeah, we've had 4 1st-round picks and 4 2nd-round picks the last 4 drafts; we've picked in the 3rd round exactly once since 2013, when we took Jake Walman in '14. Quit shipping picks for alleged short-term fixes, let's start actually building depth. And, [gasp!] let's start figuring out how to develop guys at the AHL level for the first time in decades.

5. I've opined on this considerably, any more is beating a dead horse.

6. Agreed. I'd also add, start being smart about who you're having be the #1 guy. Halak got outplayed by Elliott and then went into a fog; Elliott was never trusted to be the #1 guy, and when he had issues it was see, we knew he couldn't be the #1 guy - get him the hell out followed by well ****, we gotta turn to someone, ... ****, I guess he's the guy for now. Allen has continually had issues, but got anointed future #1 and was getting [and keeping] that spot come hell or high water. Husso was all but anointed future #1 after last year, while Binnington was pretty much dog**** to a number of fans. Open up the net to competition, let the best guy win, and trust him and see what he can do - but for crying out loud, show some faith where it's deserved.

Agree with pretty much everything.

6 is so damn maddening. Army has to be the worst judge and manager of goalies. Whenever he has a solution in front of him, he makes the wrong damn choice.

The cap situation is asinine as well. Why the need to spend to the cap for terribly marginal upgrades. Why not save some cap space to give yourself opportunities to make an acquisition that other teams can’t make because they lack cap space. The potential ROI is so much greater. It’s similar to the box you put yourself in when you restrict moves to hockey trades. Here is a question, what trades happen more, hockey trades or buy/sell trades? It seems pretty straightforward that the prospect of finding the player of need is greater when you have more options, especially more likely situations. It’s simple economics. Opportunity costs

 

[mk80]

The on ice product is suited best for a retool.

We'll have some salary coming off the books with Bouwmeester, Gunnarsson, Maroon, Johnson, and Bortuzzo becoming UFAs that will open space to take care of our upcoming RFAs, and possibly bring in some outside help. Bortuzzo could be a candidate to resign if necessary out of that group.

I'm sure we'll have some trade candidates too there are some guys that people have mentioned above that should definitely be in consideration to let go of.

However I think what may be equally if not more important than retooling the roster is rebuilding the front office. I think it's time to move on from DA and bring in someone from outside who can look objectively at all the players, coaching staff, etc. Winning culture is set from the top down and I think bringing in a new top level of the front office would help set that culture in place.

Someone mentioned this as well and it's a huge factor in the success of the organization, but AHL development. We were terrible at developing prospects at the AHL level with Peoria, and even Chicago to an extent. We NEED to take notes on other organizations on how they develop their prospects. And again I think that is aided by rebuilding the front office.

 

[MissouriMook]

In no particular order...

Hire a coach that will establish an identity for the team
Trade Bozak at the deadline for futures
Trade Steen or Schwartz (preferably Steen) in the off-season for a Top 4 LHD
Sign or trade for a #1 goalie
Trade anyone else from the roster believed to be a problem in the locker room

 

[Bluesguru]

Voted "retool"

Full rebuild is not necessary, but the core needs to be rebuilt. Petro, Schwartz, Steen need to go. OReilly, Schenn and Tarasenko are keepers for sure. Defense needs a makeover. Goaltending needs to be addressed. And getting a top 3 pick in the next draft would be a huge get for this franchise. Adding youth and speed to the team and getting a college coach like Montgomery who likes a fast pace, puck pressure type style would be ideal. Stillman really should jettison Army now so all of these get addressed but I'm afraid that isn't going to happen. As long as Army is here, the less chance will see changes made to the core group IMO.