DeepFrickinValue
Formally Ruffus
- May 14, 2015
- 5,295
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27 to 29 seems to be the optimum for players. Lifetime security at 29. then a huge end-of-life contract as well.
What to do with Morrissey
- Thread starter cbcwpg
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Maukkis
EZ4ENCE
- Mar 16, 2016
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nobody imp0rtant
Registered pessimist
- May 23, 2018
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Duke749
Savannah Ghost Pirates
Getting Morrissey under $6 per would be for me akin to Scheif’s contract. A huge bargain.
Duke749
Savannah Ghost Pirates
.... Why would anyone have even assumed that?
Unless we’re assuming “corgis’s” post was the sarcasm? Lol
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CorgisPer60
Barking at the net
Because Ryan Ellis just got 6.25m AAV for almost exclusively UFA years. Morrissey's next contract will be at least half RFA years if it's an 8 year contract. It should reflect that.
Maukkis
EZ4ENCE
- Mar 16, 2016
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Defensemen who signed long term deals after their ELCs have gotten 5+ recently. Besides, you're using a Nashville player as a comparison, which is misleading due to the difference in taxes.
scarbrow21
Registered User
exactly...People fail to realize that Ellis 6.5M per year is equivilent to a 7.6M per year contract here
Yup, the vast majority of young dmen have gotten 5 plus million. There a re a few in the mid 4 to high 4's but it's wishful thinking to expect us to get him long term at that dollar value.
Are the taxes that high here? Remember the Preds only get Nashville tax rates for 41 games. They pay Manitoba tax rates when they play here.
I think he will get better than $5.125 per year over the next 8 years if Jets make him sign shorter contracts. That's millions of dollars, not dollars.
cheswick
Non-registered User
Yeah, I think since capfriendly put an erroneous tax calculator on their website people have been making a big deal about tax concerns.
Here's an article that touches on a few of the tax complications facing players:
Legally Speaking: Why State Income Tax Doesn’t Matter to Free Agents
nobody imp0rtant
Registered pessimist
- May 23, 2018
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.... Why would anyone have even assumed that?
Unless we’re assuming “corgis’s” post was the sarcasm? Lol
Yes.
Zhamnov5GoalGame
Former Director of GDT Operations
I’ve been extremely busy the last several weeks and pretty unplugged from hockey / Jets news. I keep hoping to see the Morrissey signing news. It didn’t seem like this one would take so long (once we knew the Trouba details). I guess I don’t have a big opinion either way as far as long vs short (cap room in the short term could be good)
I just want it done and for him to play for us for a very long time. Whether that’s one or two contracts.
I just want it done and for him to play for us for a very long time. Whether that’s one or two contracts.
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
- Jul 10, 2011
- 9,467
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If there was a Norris trophy for defensive defenseman he'd be in the top 3. Advanced stats favour him.
I'll say 6 years/$37 million. More than Ehlers. Less than Scheif and Buff.
Gabe Kupari
Registered User
Who cares. You think that plays a role in most players? Bullcrap. 6.5 is 6.5 here... Bottom line... Nobody gives a f*** about taxes.. If they all truly did Florida would have 10 more teams.
Lets pretend morrissey would build a house here.. Lots do.. So that big mansion in Nashville that costs 7 million to build costs less here.
Like nobody cares. If im making 6 million a year.. I dont go well crap lets move elsewhere especially if im a pro athlete because the cost of literally everything else is cheaper here.
In Vancouver a 1000 sq foot house = 1 million dollars. In Wpg.. Its 200 to maybe 260 k.
Theres your savings.
scarbrow21
Registered User
I'm not trying to bash you here so please take this as just statements of fact...but you're not a millionaire and you don't live like the 1% or in this case professional athletes. Things that are normal to you or I, are not relative to someone making millions of dollars a year playing a sport. 6.5M in NSH is NOT 6.5M in winnipeg. That's a fact. Both are paid in USD which is the same but taxes, cost of living, everything is different and to say it's cheaper here is just wrong. You have no idea what the cost of lumber, food, clothes, electronics, etc etc etc. If you do a little research you'll find that most items cost considerably less in the US than they do in Canada. Now I agree that lots of players may not think like that...but their agents sure do! They try to maximize their clients returns as their careers are finite. We're not using Vancouver here as a reference we're using NSH so the housing market there makes no difference. A quick search for real estate will also show you that a 1M house in Nsh is VERY comparable to a 1M house in WPG except that in NSH you don't deal with -30 ever.
Now all that said yes there are issues with permanent residence and citizenship and how people get taxed but there's ways around that too. There's also the exchange rate issue which actually DOES argue for your case in the sense that Jets players are paid in USD and live and pay for things in CAD which boosts their wage anywhere from 10-20% ish based on the exchange rate but that also costs money to do.
I'm not claiming I know what any player individually thinks and sure, maybe some do think like your statement above, heck there might even be some who wouldn't live in the states strictly because of their current president but as millionaires they live in a different world than we do and it's not relative to the lives we live!
Most guys don't buy a house here, they either rent a house or live in an apartment for the season. I know one of the apartments downtown where several Jets players live during the season.
- Jun 10, 2014
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- Jun 10, 2014
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You go a long way to making Jetblu's point for him. Figuring out the relative value of the same contract in 2 locations is complicated. There is a lot more to it than just comparing state/provincial tax rates. When all is said and done and the smoke clears I don't believe the difference is very large. The other factors, like climate are what they are, but even they tend to be oversimplified - and overblown.
- Jun 10, 2014
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And rental costs are commensurate with buying costs. A real estate market is a real estate market.
Taxes are an important factor - especially for really "top paid athletes". For instance a guy like Tiger Woods who's from California, moved to " Florida" where there is "zero State tax" Tiger makes about $ 40 million per year just from endorsements. Had he stayed in California where state taxes are very high, it would have cost him a lot of money, over the last 15-20 years. ( a huge amount)
Let's say in California the state tax is 9% of your taxable income ( could be only 5%) but we'll use 9 % for an example. I believe it's closer to 9% -"not sure"
9 % of say $ 35,000 million = $ 3,150,000 million and over 15 yrs = $ 47,250,000 million dollars -that's one big wack of money Tiger saved. Tiger's divorce cost him $ 100 million, so half was paid thru his tax savings by moving to Florida. Phil Mickelson has been threatening the state of California for a change in this tax law, or he says he'll move to Florida. He was born in California, and daughters go to school there, so he'll likely stay. You can see with hugely paid athletes how "significant" state taxes are. There are only 7 US states that have no tax-- they are Florida, Texas, Nevada, South Dakota, Alaska, Washington and Wyoming. California on the other hand, has one of the highest state taxes in the USA. Tennessee also has a very "low tax rate".
Note-You can see why this may be "very enticing" for some hockey players to play in Florida/Nevada, Tennesse, or Texas.
Look at tennis stars like Novak Djokovic, and Milos Raonic-- just 2 that I'm aware of. Both list their residences in Monaco, which is a world tax haven for the wealthy, and there is not tax period there--either "federal or state tax", Everything that you gross you also net. Even though these guys register their residence in Monaco, they don't really live there full time, but own some condo there, and I'm sure spend a little time there. I only named 2 tennis players, but there are tons of them. Novak Djokovic is from Serbia, where both federal and state taxes in a poor country like that, are likely at least around 40%-45% of your income. Djokovic makes around $ 30,000,000 mil per year. This becomes very, very significant in tax savings. For those that don't know--Monaco is in the French Riviera, and is it's own country with it's own tax laws. Milos Raonic is a tennis player from Canada, for people that don't know. Milos doesn't make near what Djokovic does, but with Canada's Provincial and Federal tax rates together running at around 49 % of your income--you can see why Raonic registers his residence in Monaco. Probably saves him around $ 1.5 to $ 2 mil per year. Raonic also owns a condo in Toronto where he's from and spends most of his time there.
I did comment on this matter last year, and I believe quite a smart businessman replied and said Manitoba taxes are in the 9 to 11 % range. I don't know if this is right, but I believe it to be close. Maybe a good accountant can provide "clarity" on this issue.
Considering what I've said above and your average Hockey Player plays 15 years, it's certainly a big economic advantage playing in a US State that has very low, or zero tax rates. You do have to consider that a Florida based player will pay the "state tax" or "provincial taxes"owing to the state he was playing in-"for road games." So if half the games are on the road-- he would only save on the 41 Home games -- but it's still significant over a 15 year period. This may affect negotiations with some US born players like Trouba.
With all the above being said -- you then have to factor in the 'cost of living" in expensive places like Florida and others before coming to a final decision. Example-cost of housing is a "big one."
Let's say in California the state tax is 9% of your taxable income ( could be only 5%) but we'll use 9 % for an example. I believe it's closer to 9% -"not sure"
9 % of say $ 35,000 million = $ 3,150,000 million and over 15 yrs = $ 47,250,000 million dollars -that's one big wack of money Tiger saved. Tiger's divorce cost him $ 100 million, so half was paid thru his tax savings by moving to Florida. Phil Mickelson has been threatening the state of California for a change in this tax law, or he says he'll move to Florida. He was born in California, and daughters go to school there, so he'll likely stay. You can see with hugely paid athletes how "significant" state taxes are. There are only 7 US states that have no tax-- they are Florida, Texas, Nevada, South Dakota, Alaska, Washington and Wyoming. California on the other hand, has one of the highest state taxes in the USA. Tennessee also has a very "low tax rate".
Note-You can see why this may be "very enticing" for some hockey players to play in Florida/Nevada, Tennesse, or Texas.
Look at tennis stars like Novak Djokovic, and Milos Raonic-- just 2 that I'm aware of. Both list their residences in Monaco, which is a world tax haven for the wealthy, and there is not tax period there--either "federal or state tax", Everything that you gross you also net. Even though these guys register their residence in Monaco, they don't really live there full time, but own some condo there, and I'm sure spend a little time there. I only named 2 tennis players, but there are tons of them. Novak Djokovic is from Serbia, where both federal and state taxes in a poor country like that, are likely at least around 40%-45% of your income. Djokovic makes around $ 30,000,000 mil per year. This becomes very, very significant in tax savings. For those that don't know--Monaco is in the French Riviera, and is it's own country with it's own tax laws. Milos Raonic is a tennis player from Canada, for people that don't know. Milos doesn't make near what Djokovic does, but with Canada's Provincial and Federal tax rates together running at around 49 % of your income--you can see why Raonic registers his residence in Monaco. Probably saves him around $ 1.5 to $ 2 mil per year. Raonic also owns a condo in Toronto where he's from and spends most of his time there.
I did comment on this matter last year, and I believe quite a smart businessman replied and said Manitoba taxes are in the 9 to 11 % range. I don't know if this is right, but I believe it to be close. Maybe a good accountant can provide "clarity" on this issue.
Considering what I've said above and your average Hockey Player plays 15 years, it's certainly a big economic advantage playing in a US State that has very low, or zero tax rates. You do have to consider that a Florida based player will pay the "state tax" or "provincial taxes"owing to the state he was playing in-"for road games." So if half the games are on the road-- he would only save on the 41 Home games -- but it's still significant over a 15 year period. This may affect negotiations with some US born players like Trouba.
With all the above being said -- you then have to factor in the 'cost of living" in expensive places like Florida and others before coming to a final decision. Example-cost of housing is a "big one."
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CaptainChef
Registered User
I think you're pretty close on that. He's got 4 RFA years left I believe; is 4.5 AAV fair for those. Then jump to 6.5 for the UFA years and that gives you 5.5 AAV on an 8 year contract
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