Player Discussion: What to do with Lemieux?

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

After his likely suspension, what should be done with Lemieux? Send him to the Moose to see if his style can be corrected? Keep him with Jets to do the same? Trade him?

It's not a likely suspension. Match penalties result in an indefinite suspension until a ruling is made.

21.1 Match Penalty: Match penalties are assessed against players deemed to have "deliberately" injured or attempted to injure an opponent. When a player is assessed a match penalty, he is ejected from the game and officially given 10 PIM. Not only is he ejected from the current game, but he is also suspended indefinitely "until the Commissioner has ruled on the issue."

Deliberate attempt to injure is a rather serious matter.

I for one don't want to cheer on anyone who engages in such tactics. Situations like this can occur during heated games/playoff series when players can feel they have ample reason to "pay back" another player.

In this case Lemieux out of nowhere on a routine play went after another players head.

f*** him. Good riddance.

 

[scelaton]

At the end of the day, if he is able to make better decisions, he is a player this team can use based on what he brings. That might be a big "if" but that's where I'm coming from and that's what the Jets were considering when they brought him up.

I don't believe the Jets consider him "dime a dozen" at best, or a fringe grinder - they see something in him that you don't.
At the same time, IMO, he's back with the Jets at some point.

How many chances does he get? It'll depend on how much they see in him - that's where you and I differ in opinion - and that's OK.

Yup, entirely a matter of opinion and I hope yours is right, for everyone's sake.
I must say, though, that you are more forgiving than I of what is a clear pattern of bad behavior over time. I used to be more tolerant of this much earlier in my career, but things never seemed to work out the way they do in the movies, so I changed my stance.
What I find interesting is that the Jets traded for Lemieux at all, because they clearly put a lot of stock in 'character' at the draft table.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

At the end of the day, if he is able to make better decisions, he is a player this team can use based on what he brings. That might be a big "if" but that's where I'm coming from and that's what the Jets were considering when they brought him up.

I don't believe the Jets consider him "dime a dozen" at best, or a fringe grinder - they see something in him that you don't.
At the same time, IMO, he's back with the Jets at some point.

How many chances does he get? It'll depend on how much they see in him - that's where you and I differ in opinion - and that's OK.

I think you see them seeing something in him that they don't see.

If he succeeds, that is learns to stop the dirty *** and to keep the PIMs within reason - he is a dime a dozen player. He just is. I don't know what you think that term means. At best he could equal the value of an Andrew Copp. That's about what his upside is. He's never shown any more than that at any level. That is a rough comparison of course. He could be a bottom 6 grinder who brings grit and a little scoring. Players like that are a dime a dozen. Players like him spend their entire careers in the AHL. Actually better players than him do that. Or in Europe. Players like him sign <1 mil, 1 year contracts in FA every year. Players like him are waived every year. Players like him also make the NHL every year. That is players with his talent but without his lack of self-discipline. Players with his issues and no more talent, see their NHL dreams die every year.

He's had 4 years with the Jets org. Do you think they have not been working with/on him all that time? Suddenly after Friday's incident they are going to start working with him?

I can't figure out why you are trying so hard to defend him. What is it you think he has that is beyond what I am saying? Do you see him in the top 6 someday? If not, then we agree, he is a bottom 6 grinder.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Okay maybe that was, but lets change it up, strip Lemieux naked, tie his arms and legs, spread peanut butter on his privates and stick in a small locked room with a dozen starving squirrels!

That's funnier - but no less extreme.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

100% this ^^^

It was a *****e bag play by cuckoo’s nest that comes as zero surprise to me.

Adam Lowry plays physical in your face hockey and he rarly takes penalties. For me that shoukd be the Jets prototype for physically engaged assets.

This is not a one-off from Lemmy. In fact it is typical of him. We've seen one-off dirty plays from a lot of players. Trouba, Morrissey and Lowry have all been suspended. But those plays were very unusual from those players. It has often been said that Trouba plays with an edge, a mean streak and I think that is correct. But he doesn't normally cross the line. At all. Morrissey is about as far from a dirty player as you can get - but that one he was suspended for definitely deserved the suspension.

I wouldn't get all bent out of shape if Chiarot earned himself a day off w/o pay either. He is about the same to D as Lemieux is to W. This coming from Lemmy, with his history, is enough. See ya'.

 

[RageQuit77]

When you are a fan of the team and you hoped a player of that team would get badly beaten for his actions in the rink. In rink.

I don't often go to the depth of "moral panic", but that f***tard revealed his whole inner personality with that chicken move, and my life experience is enough to tell me people rarely recover from these kind things if originally installed to their psyche. I am not and don't want be unforgiving person, but (and that but is really big), Papa and Mama Lemieux failed with this son Lemieux. Amounts of urine to his head was included during insemination.

Hus hus, go away, stay away. Better for the team in long run. Imagine similar total brainfarts to SC-finals game #4.

 

[Eyeseeing]

This board overreacts to every little thing.

We need toughness in this line up yes, not a cheap shot artist.
Personally I don’t think we need him but I’m guessing he’s getting another chance.
This isn’t a little thing it’s a fork in the road for Mr.Lemieux

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

This board overreacts to every little thing.

In this case it's justified. A good portion of the veteran posters here didn't want him on the team because they thought he'd eventually do this.

Took him only 9 games to prove them all correct.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Okay maybe that was, but lets change it up, strip Lemieux naked, tie his arms and legs, spread peanut butter on his privates and stick in a small locked room with a dozen starving squirrels!

I’m offended

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

delete

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

delete

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

delete. Geez hfboards was acting a bit wonky there for a few minutes. Posts weren't taking.

 

[HannuJ]

It's not a likely suspension. Match penalties result in an indefinite suspension until a ruling is made.

21.1 Match Penalty: Match penalties are assessed against players deemed to have "deliberately" injured or attempted to injure an opponent. When a player is assessed a match penalty, he is ejected from the game and officially given 10 PIM. Not only is he ejected from the current game, but he is also suspended indefinitely "until the Commissioner has ruled on the issue."

Deliberate attempt to injure is a rather serious matter.

I for one don't want to cheer on anyone who engages in such tactics. Situations like this can occur during heated games/playoff series when players can feel they have ample reason to "pay back" another player.

In this case Lemieux out of nowhere on a routine play went after another players heads.

**** him. Good riddance.

so your opinion of Trouba is?

 

[KingBogo]

Mo wasn't too happy. I'm guessing 3-5 games for Lemieux and then sent back to the Moose for awhile. He doesn't bring enough to the table to make bone head plays like that.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

so your opinion of Trouba is?

Fly by's made by forwards in the neutral zone on unsuspecting opponents vs. an opponent knowingly playing the puck on the boards with their back exposed that then turn and square their numbers to a hit from a defender aren't really the same are they?

Trouba's both received & been the giver of these types of hits. However what I'm assuming you're referring to was his suspension due to the Stone hit in 2016-2017.

In that case, he committed himself to standing up the blue line & misfired. Of course the onus was on Trouba to deliver a hit to the chest, but standing up an oncoming player at the blue line is a bit different that a cheap shot to an opponent with his back turned don't you think?

 

[Atoyot]

It's not a likely suspension. Match penalties result in an indefinite suspension until a ruling is made.

21.1 Match Penalty: Match penalties are assessed against players deemed to have "deliberately" injured or attempted to injure an opponent. When a player is assessed a match penalty, he is ejected from the game and officially given 10 PIM. Not only is he ejected from the current game, but he is also suspended indefinitely "until the Commissioner has ruled on the issue."

Deliberate attempt to injure is a rather serious matter.

I for one don't want to cheer on anyone who engages in such tactics. Situations like this can occur during heated games/playoff series when players can feel they have ample reason to "pay back" another player.

In this case Lemieux out of nowhere on a routine play went after another players heads.

**** him. Good riddance.

I mean, a player is indefinitely suspended prior to a hearing yeah, but that doesn't automatically mean they're going to miss games. It just means they can't play until a hearing takes place, that hearing can decide 0 games and the player wouldn't miss a game.

With that being said, I agree. Hope this is the last we see of Lemieux.

 

[redneckjabronie]

He's not going to be the most popular Jet in the room for awhile but he's not getting trading. I'd be very surprised to see the Jets give up on any asset that quickly.

The Jets know what they have with Lemieux - it's not like this was the first time they have seen this type of behavior. They brought him up for a reason - his game is obviously something they like. Now they have to work with him including working this garbage out of his game.

He has little upside. Basically, a poorer version of Zac Kassian. Get rid of him now, maybe as part of a package, and he may still have value. If the Jets think they can fix his head and character, good luck, he'll get you nothing. No room in today's NHL for single purpose goons.

A low risk proposition getting rid of him. You go over to Europe, a foreign country, and highlight this kind of garbage for an international audience. A guy like Petan misses a check, he's banished to the press box or Moose. There better be a far stronger response from the Jets in this case. Hope we never see him again in this jersey.

 

[LowLefty]

I think you see them seeing something in him that they don't see.

If he succeeds, that is learns to stop the dirty *** and to keep the PIMs within reason - he is a dime a dozen player. He just is. I don't know what you think that term means. At best he could equal the value of an Andrew Copp. That's about what his upside is. He's never shown any more than that at any level. That is a rough comparison of course. He could be a bottom 6 grinder who brings grit and a little scoring. Players like that are a dime a dozen. Players like him spend their entire careers in the AHL. Actually better players than him do that. Or in Europe. Players like him sign <1 mil, 1 year contracts in FA every year. Players like him are waived every year. Players like him also make the NHL every year. That is players with his talent but without his lack of self-discipline. Players with his issues and no more talent, see their NHL dreams die every year.

He's had 4 years with the Jets org. Do you think they have not been working with/on him all that time? Suddenly after Friday's incident they are going to start working with him?

I can't figure out why you are trying so hard to defend him. What is it you think he has that is beyond what I am saying? Do you see him in the top 6 someday? If not, then we agree, he is a bottom 6 grinder.

We agree - he's a bottom 6 grinder with potential to add a little scoring.
I do like him - he has an old school edge that I miss in today's game.

I do not condone the recent crap - no place in the game for that and I hope my posts are not leaving the impression that I do.
I just like what he brings - he has a heavy, disruptive way about him that is easy to hate when you have to play against him - that might be what sets him apart from your typical AHL player. He should be drawing penalties, not taking them.

I was hoping Maurice could get through to him - help him get his sh$t together - something beyond the guidance he has been getting via the Moose (and I have no idea what has been said done to straighten him out at that level).

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I went to school with a guy who eventually got his chance with the California Golden Seals. (Does that date me? )

A little. Carbon 14 would be more accurate.

 

[cbcwpg]

If it was 1974 Lemieux would be playing every game and probably playing big minutes protecting Laine... but it's not. The NHL wants these hits out of the game and you can tell by the NHL disciplinary that the NHL does see a difference between head hits that occur as part of playing the man to separate him from the puck or a scrum along the boards and deliberately targeting the head just because it happens to be there , when the puck is long gone and the player being hit isn't even in the play.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an
opponent’s head where the head was the main point of contact and
such contact to the head was avoidable is not permitted.
In determining whether contact with an opponent's head was
avoidable, the circumstances of the hit including the following shall be
considered:
(i) Whether the player attempted to hit squarely through the
opponent’s body and the head was not "picked" as a result of poor
timing, poor angle of approach, or unnecessary extension of the
body upward or outward.
(ii) Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by
assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full
body check unavoidable.
(iii) Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his body
or head immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit in a way
that significantly contributed to the head contact

48.2 Minor Penalty – For violation of this rule, a minor penalty shall be
assessed.
48.3 Major Penalty – There is no provision for a major penalty for this rule.
48.4 Game Misconduct Penalty – There is no provision for a game
misconduct for this rule.
48.5 Match Penalty – The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a match
penalty if, in his judgment, the player attempted to or deliberately
injured his opponent with an illegal check to the head.
If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by
the Commissioner at his discretion.

So Lemieux was in violation of 48.1 and received 48.5. Let's see how bad Bettman wants this out of the game.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Duke749]

What are you calling an overreaction? Who is overreacting to what? I don't get your point at all.

This kid isn’t worth this thread. That’s my only thing. It’ll likely be a long time before he gets another chance with the Jets. I think everyone pretty knows that.

 

[Saintb]

A little. Carbon 14 would be more accurate.

The team that gave up the Guy Lafleur draft pick for Carol Vadnais and his white skates..

 

[Neuf]

I'd bet on him being back on the Jets after a few games of suspension

 

[Eyeseeing]

This kid isn’t worth this thread. That’s my only thing. It’ll likely be a long time before he gets another chance with the Jets. I think everyone pretty knows that.

I’m guessing most of us want to see how the organization see this.
I’m guessing this thread was created to check the pulse of us crazy HF folk
We will see soon enough

 

[Jimby]

I suspect he will be back in the press box. What happens after that depends on Petan.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We agree - he's a bottom 6 grinder with potential to add a little scoring.
I do like him - he has an old school edge that I miss in today's game.

I do not condone the recent crap - no place in the game for that and I hope my posts are not leaving the impression that I do.
I just like what he brings - he has a heavy, disruptive way about him that is easy to hate when you have to play against him - that might be what sets him apart from your typical AHL player. He should be drawing penalties, not taking them.

I was hoping Maurice could get through to him - help him get his sh$t together - something beyond the guidance he has been getting via the Moose (and I have no idea what has been said done to straighten him out at that level).

The funny thing is (as someone else pointed out) that Dano was a pretty successful agitator. He didn't take a lot of penalties or go head-hunting but opposition players always seemed to be mad at him. Unfortunately for him, that seems to extend to his own coaches too. But Lemieux doesn't bring anything that Dano didn't except fighting skill and I think Dano did it better. Edit: Other than the fighting, I mean.

I would like to have a successful **** disturber and a decent fighter for those rare occasions when one is needed. Rather see a Lemieux breaking his hand than Scheifele or Wheeler. But the only part of that Lemieux seems to have is the fighting, and I'm not sure he knows how to pick his times.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

A little. Carbon 14 would be more accurate.

There is a minimum time that needs to have elapsed before C14 can be used. I probably qualify but I think you also need to be dead.