What star player surprisingly didn't get a lot of Hart votes

[Big Phil]

Lots of players made the HHOF, or even close to it, and had a surprisingly thin record when it came to Hart votes. If you are only going to have the HHOF for players that won a major award then we are going to have to kick a lot of them out, but what about the ones who you assume had good Hart votes but didn't?

Luc Robitaille - None. Not a single one. Honestly, look it up. How can a guy who had 5 First Team all-stars never get a single Hart vote in his career? The all-time leader in goals scored for left wingers was shut out. Even in 1993. Go figure. I know that is a very heavy year for some players but no one figured Robitaille was in the top 5 with Gretzky out and a very impressive 125 point season to help keep L.A. alive? I had to double check it, but he never got a single Hart vote.

Brian Leetch - A two time Norris winner ought to have his fridge stocked with some Hart votes, no? No, not really.

1992 - 9th
1996 - 22nd
1997 - 16th

That's it. It seems the votes were hung up on Messier in 1992. That's fine, but he wins the Norris in 1997 and finishes 16th, barely behind Gretzky at 15th. How is he not higher?

Gilbert Perreault - If you told me Perreault is the most beautiful player to ever watch in NHL history I wouldn't argue with you just because he's darn close. He was on good teams in his career and well known as the bread and butter of the French Connection Line, but for whatever reason lacked in the Hart race despite all of his fine seasons

1972 - 10th
1973 - 5th
1976 - 7th
1977 - 7th

Nothing against Danny Gare, but was he really considered more valuable on the 1980 Sabres? Apparently despite Perreault's 106 point year.

Lanny McDonald - Finished 8th in 1983 which was his 66 goal season. Good players with big years ahead of him, but still, that was it for his whole career? Yeppers.

Michel Goulet - Maybe it isn't a surprise since the more noticeable Peter Stastny was his linemate but I would have guessed more than just 7th in 1984 and 12th in 1985.

Steve Shutt - Maybe it surprises no one that he had zero hart votes. I can understand it, being on those stacked teams and maybe being the 7 or 8th most recognizable guy. You'd think maybe on his big years there is a bit more support but there isn't. Not even 1977. Lafleur and Robinson gobbled those up.

Bill Barber - Finished 15th in 1982. That was it. Understandable, Clarke is his teammate.

Jari Kurri - No kidding, he finished 14th in 1985. I get it, Gretzky is going to command the attention there but it wasn't as if Coffey didn't get some votes. Did the voters not think that Kurri was in the top 5 at any time? None of that would be unusual to have two teammates there. If it makes you feel any better, Messier only finished 9th in 1987 and that was all he had up to 1990.

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[Admiral Awesome]

Lidstrom's relative lack of votes is kind of surprising to me. By my count, he received a grand total of 4 first place votes over the course of his entire career, with 2 of them coming the season he finished 4th in voting.

 

[The Panther]

I guess a lot of defencemen are going to be nominated here, just because they tend to suffer from Hart-vote deprivation. For example, when Bourque came very near to winning the Hart in 1990, it was not coincidentally the first time no forward had scored 150+ points in ten years. Orr didn't win a couple of Harts against Esposito for much the same reason.

It's harder to find good examples of forwards that Phil didn't already list.

It won't surprise anyone, but Bernie Nicholls didn't get a single Hart vote in 1988-89. I agree that Gretzky was the straw stirring that team's improvement (and probably also the motivator for Nicholls), but Bernie did score 150 points -- which was about 90% of Gretzky's point total, far higher than any Edmonton teammate had ever been -- while scoring 16 more goals and being twice as high a plus/minus. Not a single Hart vote, despite the third-highest scoring season in history aside from Gretzky/Lemieux.

Only once did Jeremy Roenick get past 10th place in Hart voting.

There was only one season (2002-03) when Jean-Sebastien Giguere got even a few stray Hart votes (not even enough to be top-15).

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Chara's only finishes being 8, 12, 13, 14, 15, 19, 25 fits the bill, albeit because of the defenseman issue mentioned above.

on the forward side, I look at Cam Neely...his entire Hart voting history is 1 2nd place vote, 2 3rd place voters. Figured he would've had a lot more votes than that

Current forward stuck with this crown is Kopitar...career finishes of 8, 8, 17

There was only one season (2002-03) when Jean-Sebastien Giguere got even a few stray Hart votes (not even enough to be top-15).

to your point...it seems the only way for a goalie to get Hart consideration is to have a 'CH' on their chest.

Since 1953, the only goalies (except for Hasek) to win the Hart were Canadiens. And frankly 2 of those, Theodore and Price, are extremely debatable.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I imagine most names will be from the days of the post-WHA 5-3-1 ballot. With 21+ teams, three names, and Gretzky and Lemieux running around, that’s a pretty exclusive ballot.

 

[quoipourquoi]

to your point...it seems the only way for a goalie to get Hart consideration is to have a 'CH' on their chest.

Since 1953, the only goalies (except for Hasek) to win the Hart were Canadiens. And frankly 2 of those, Theodore and Price, are extremely debatable.

Martin Brodeur finished top-5 on seven occasions. Dominik Hasek finished top-3 on five occasions. Mike Liut finished just 5 voting points behind Gretzky. If Vanbiesbrouck played a little better in the final week of 1993-94, or if Theodore played a little worse in the final week of 2001-02, two non-Canadiens goaltenders are the front-runners for the Hart Trophy in those seasons. Carey Price took 139 of 157 1st-place votes.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Sundin somehow never finished higher than eighth in voting. Tavares has finished in the top three in voting twice and his peak isn't much if any even better than Sundin's (who's known more for his consistency than any huge seasons that stand out).

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I agree, Robitaille is the best player to never receive a single vote for the Hart. I'll limit this to forwards since they dominate the Hart voting:

• Mike Gartner never got any Hart votes either.
• The same is true of Dave Andreychuk - zero votes.
• Joe Mullen only received a single 3rd place vote in his entire career (1989).
• Bernie Federko received two 3rd place votes (1985 and 1986).
• Dino Ciccarelli got three 3rd place votes (one in 1982, two in 1987).
• Bob Gainey got a single third-palce vote in 1980 and 1982. He also got three voting points (so either a 2nd place vote, or three 3rds) in 1979.
  
• Clark Gillies got votes once in his career. In 1978 he had 5 voting points (either one first, a second and two thirds, or five thirds - not sure).
• Johnny Bucyk got Hart votes just twice in his long career. A third place vote in 1968, and either one second or three thirds in 1976.
• Yvan Cournoyer got Hart votes four times (1967, 1969, 1973 and 1974) - but never more than five points.
  
• Ron Francis only received votes four times in his career. In two of those (1986 and 1987), it was only a single vote, and in 1998, it was only two 4th place votes. His one big year was 2002, when he finished 6th, at age 38.
• Adam Oates is similar. He got a single vote in 2000 and two votes in 1994. His big year, of course, was 1993, when he finished 4th, but that's really it.
• Mark Recchi follows a similar pattern. One big year (2000 when he finished 6th), then three years (1991, 2001 and 2004) with a single vote each.
• Brendan Shanahan, too, follows the same pattern. His big year was 2002 (9th), then he got a trivial number of votes in 1997, 2000, and 2007.

Maybe none of those are surprising as these are mostly "low peak" players, when compared to the typical HOFer.

For a player who won consecutive Art Ross trophies, Dickie Moore didn't do well in Hart voting. He was only 5th and 8th in those years, and didn't get any votes the rest of his career.

Mike Bossy also fares worse than you'd expect. On the one hand, he got Hart votes eight times in his ten-year career. But only twice did he get more than 5% of the vote (the threshold that I usually use to identify a non-trivial number). Even if we look at the first nine years of his career (ignoring the injury-plagued 1987), he was only 3rd on his team in Hart votes during that span, and out of the top 10 overall. Not bad of course, but I think he gets somewhat overrated because people like round, arbitrary seasonal milestones.

 

[Epsilon]

I imagine most names will be from the days of the post-WHA 5-3-1 ballot. With 21+ teams, three names, and Gretzky and Lemieux running around, that’s a pretty exclusive ballot.

This would especially impact forwards, and even more particularly forward teammates of players like Gretzky. Hence Kurri's voting record as Big Phil pointed out, and Robataille to an extent, among others.

 

[steve141]

I guess a lot of defencemen are going to be nominated here, just because they tend to suffer from Hart-vote deprivation. For example, when Bourque came very near to winning the Hart in 1990, it was not coincidentally the first time no forward had scored 150+ points in ten years.

I feel this doesn't get understood enough. When Pronger won the Hart in 2000 it wasn't because he had a much better season than other Norris winners before him, it was because it was the first time in 32 years that no forward scored 100+ points over a full season.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Jari Kurri - No kidding, he finished 14th in 1985. I get it, Gretzky is going to command the attention there but it wasn't as if Coffey didn't get some votes. Did the voters not think that Kurri was in the top 5 at any time? None of that would be unusual to have two teammates there. If it makes you feel any better, Messier only finished 9th in 1987 and that was all he had up to 1990.

during his peak, it was a three man ballot wasn’t it?

man though, even if we know why, a guy that historically good only getting one hart vote his entire career...

 

[Michael Farkas]

W.C. Fields once said (referring to show business): "Never work with animals"

Wayne Gretzky was an animal...

 

[Sentinel]

I don't remember Mogilny, Kovalev, and Zetterberg being very high on Hart voting ballots, but, of course, Lidstrom's absence hurts.

 

[Asheville]

Still boggles my mind that people who never played sports at the professional level get to decide on who wins awards and therefore define their legacy.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I feel this doesn't get understood enough. When Pronger won the Hart in 2000 it wasn't because he had a much better season than other Norris winners before him, it was because it was the first time in 32 years that no forward scored 100+ points over a full season.

...and also he had a better season than other Norris winners before him. Team ravaged by injuries, and he scores 62 points while going a +52, leading them to a Jennings by 14 GA and a President’s Trophy by 6 points. Pronger was so good they almost gave Turek the Vezina.

Really, if defensemen had seasons like that more often, they’d probably land on more Hart ballots. Burns had the buzz going last year until a late season slump (still landed 4th). Karlsson the year before, but Ottawa missed the playoffs (landed 5th the year after in a worse individual season but one in which he made the playoffs). Both years had 100-point scorers.

But 2002? 2004? 2015? No 100-point scorers, and no one felt the need to shoehorn a defenseman into the discussion, because there weren’t any Chris Prongers to warrant it. No defenseman received a vote in 2002. In 2004, Niedermayer finished 9th, behind four different goaltenders (including his own). In 2015, Karlsson finished 9th in what was his lowest scoring season of the past seven years. I’d say it’s often only a step-up from being the best Left Wing, but with Alex Ovechkin around, it’s probably worth a little less in most recent years.

So I don’t buy that excuse about defensemen getting recognition in down years for the top skaters. Rod Langway finished 2nd to Gretzky in arguably Gretzky’s best season.

 

[Megahab]

Wow, I had never checked but always just assumed Robitaille would have been up there in voting in 1993, especially with Gretzky out for almost half the regular season.

 

[Ishdul]

Wow, I had never checked but always just assumed Robitaille would have been up there in voting in 1993, especially with Gretzky out for almost half the regular season.

I mean, he was 9th in scoring, LA was a just-in playoff team and there were only 3 spots on a Hart ballot. Maybe he gets a 3rd place throwaway vote but it's hard to see him get much real consideration.

 

[Eisen]

Still boggles my mind that people who never played sports at the professional level get to decide on who wins awards and therefore define their legacy.

They watch more games and if you watch regularly, it's not so hard to see who's good and who isn't. I'd take the Hart over the Pearson/Lindsay. And it's not like they don't take a players' opinion into account.

 

[Asheville]

They watch more games and if you watch regularly, it's not so hard to see who's good and who isn't. I'd take the Hart over the Pearson/Lindsay. And it's not like they don't take a players' opinion into account.

Being able to distinguish Jeff Shantz's skill level from Wayne Gretzky's doesn't mean you're qualified to pick trophy winners. Former players have an understanding of what's going on out there that some schmuck with a journalism degree never will. Besides, attaining a journalism degree and being adept at sentence structure are not the toughest skills. Why folks value what journalists provide is truly a mystery to me.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Being able to distinguish Jeff Shantz's skill level from Wayne Gretzky's doesn't mean you're qualified to pick trophy winners. Former players have an understanding of what's going on out there that some schmuck with a journalism degree never will. Besides, attaining a journalism degree and being adept at sentence structure are not the toughest skills. Why folks value what journalists provide is truly a mystery to me.

Carry over from the era that pre-dated widespread television and radio coverage. Journalists were often the only source of info for what happened in last night's game. Back in this era of much fewer teams and players, every beat writer, at least in theory, saw every player in the league live and in person on several occasions per season. Biases surely existed, but I'd have to think their opinions were more reliable than they are today. Despite every game being available on TV now, nobody could possibly have time to watch a meaningful percentage of games due to sheer numbers. This is why I consider awards voting results a reasonably valuable piece of the puzzle up to expansion, maybe even through the 21-team era, but largely window dressing in the present day.

 

[Megahab]

Being able to distinguish Jeff Shantz's skill level from Wayne Gretzky's doesn't mean you're qualified to pick trophy winners. Former players have an understanding of what's going on out there that some schmuck with a journalism degree never will. Besides, attaining a journalism degree and being adept at sentence structure are not the toughest skills. Why folks value what journalists provide is truly a mystery to me.

If you're watching all the games, what else is there to being qualified? I agree with the poster saying I'd rather win the Hart than the Pearson. Players aren't watching nearly as many games.

 

[Eisen]

Being able to distinguish Jeff Shantz's skill level from Wayne Gretzky's doesn't mean you're qualified to pick trophy winners. Former players have an understanding of what's going on out there that some schmuck with a journalism degree never will. Besides, attaining a journalism degree and being adept at sentence structure are not the toughest skills. Why folks value what journalists provide is truly a mystery to me.

We ALL see what is going on on the ice. We don't need to be on the ice to judge it.

 

[Epsilon]

There's also much less evidence that the players are taking the voting all that seriously (which is fair, they have more important things to be focusing on), nor do they write columns at least explaining why they voted the way they did (which many writers do), nor is there any transparency (the voting totals for the Pearson/Lindsay have never been released, have they?). Yes, there are obviously some (perhaps even many) journalists voting who don't watch enough games and don't take the process as seriously as they should, but the flip side of that is that sheer volume ensures mean-regression and outlier/homer/etc votes not having too much impact. This has long been one of my gripes with the modern Vezina: with so few GMs and their general country club relationship with each other, all it takes is one biased GM with an agenda and perhaps some influence with others to greatly affect the results. I think there's a strong argument to take the 1st all-star team goaltending voting results at higher face value than the Vezina.

 

[VanIslander]

Michel Goulet - Maybe it isn't a surprise since the more noticeable Peter Stastny was his linemate but I would have guessed more than just 7th in 1984 and 12th in 1985.

Anybody who thinks Goulet was more of a Hart trophy candidate than Dale Hunter simply wasn't there!

 

[steveat]

In the 1979-80 season, Dionne tied Wayne Gretzky in the scoring race with 137 points, only to have Gretzky win the Hart Trophy.

Marcel Dionne retired in 1989 without a Hart Trophy but as a six-time 50-goal scorer, with eight seasons with 100 or more points and 1,771 career points in 1,358 games, .