Player Discussion What Sens player is/was not missed enough?

[dumbdick]

Who was "Sharkko"?

Jarkko, after he bit Andrew Peters.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Can you really miss Stone enough?

 

[Byron Bitz]

Hard to gauge but stone hasn’t been mentioned and he was possibly the most impactful overall of everyone who left outside of alfredsson.

Ya the thing that gets me about Stone is he liked playing in Ottawa and there was definitely a way to keep him if management played their cards right.

 

[playasRus]

We haven't had a true 1C since he left

Tried to fill his shoes with Turris/Zibanejad, then just upright f***ed up giving up on Zibanejad, then tried to make up for it with Duchene and failed that too realizing the big shiny 1C like Spezza is rarer than one hit wonder Duchene.

The last wave of sell offs seemed ot not be missed enough because the team went into a spiral and people were more distraught with Melnyk than anything else and so distancing themselves from the rest of the Senators world - or at least that's me.

 

[Stylizer1]

Tried to fill his shoes with Turris/Zibanejad, then just upright f***ed up giving up on Zibanejad, then tried to make up for it with Duchene and failed that too realizing the big shiny 1C like Spezza is rarer than one hit wonder Duchene.

The last wave of sell offs seemed ot not be missed enough because the team went into a spiral and people were more distraught with Melnyk than anything else and so distancing themselves from the rest of the Senators world - or at least that's me.

 

[little BiG]

Volchenkov and Methot don't get enough credit for what they did for the team during their tenure in Ottawa. They were force-multipliers in that the team benefitted far more than their individual contributions.

 

[BatherSeason]

Erik Karlsson. Respected and missed by most, disrespected and dragged through the mud by some. Dude should be universally missed. 2 Norris trophies (should and could have been more) and he carried us to one goal away from the Stanley Cup Finals.

 

[Raze The Stray]

Volchenkov and Methot don't get enough credit for what they did for the team during their tenure in Ottawa. They were force-multipliers in that the team benefitted far more than their individual contributions.

I've always thought Volchenkov was admired by most of us, what a gamer that guy was... Gotta say though, we cut bait at the right time. Likely the same is true of Methot. That said, I'm sort of emphasizing the opposite of my intention here lol, their impact was downplayed by after-the-fact events.

I nominate McGrattan, he had many a flaw no doubt, but he's the guy who grew us a pair. Carks gets some love too, triple ot winner, Karlsson cronie!

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Milan Michalek

 

[Stylizer1]

 

[JungleBeat]

Milan Michalek

Two guys that leeched off Spezza. I’m glad they’re not in a Sens jersey anymore.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Two guys that leeched off Spezza. I’m glad they’re not in a Sens jersey anymore.

Milan made Spezz...

 

[little BiG]

I've always thought Volchenkov was admired by most of us, what a gamer that guy was... Gotta say though, we cut bait at the right time. Likely the same is true of Methot. That said, I'm sort of emphasizing the opposite of my intention here lol, their impact was downplayed by after-the-fact events.

Absolutely...

 

[topshelf15]

Volchenkov and Methot don't get enough credit for what they did for the team during their tenure in Ottawa. They were force-multipliers in that the team benefitted far more than their individual contributions.

Phillips should be in this list

 

[dumbdick]

Cheechoo train.

Such an awesome guy and worked harder than any other player I remember on this team. Too bad it didn't work out better for him here.

 

[JD1]

Ya the thing that gets me about Stone is he liked playing in Ottawa and there was definitely a way to keep him if management played their cards right.

What was that way?

How do we rebuild and keep Mark Stone?

 

[Micklebot]

What was that way?

How do we rebuild and keep Mark Stone?

Presumably by signing him to a long term extension instead a one year one way back when? Not like Brannstrom is the make or break piece of this rebuild, and while we might not have done as poorly with Stone in the lineup this year, we'd still likely have two top 10 picks with the SJ pick being 3rd right now and our pick maybe climbing a few sports.

Now, if our pick ends up being Lafreniere, we're certainly better off the way we went, but if we lose the lottery, and end up 5th, say drafting Rossi, how much worse off are we compared to if we kept Stone?

Rossi and Brannstrom

Or

Stone and a 6 to 10th OA pick (one of Holtz, Perfetti, Lundell, ect)

It all comes down to the lottery I guess, that extra % chance of getting a top 3 pick, but if we slide out of the top 3, I'd rather have Stone

 

[Byron Bitz]

What was that way?

How do we rebuild and keep Mark Stone?

Stone would be the ideal veteran to lead them through the rebuild. After his ELC Dorion could have locked him down long term around 6 million. I was shocked when he bridged him just to save a bit of money in the short term.

 

[JD1]

Presumably by signing him to a long term extension instead a one year one way back when? Not like Brannstrom is the make or break piece of this rebuild, and while we might not have done as poorly with Stone in the lineup this year, we'd still likely have two top 10 picks with the SJ pick being 3rd right now and our pick maybe climbing a few sports.

Now, if our pick ends up being Lafreniere, we're certainly better off the way we went, but if we lose the lottery, and end up 5th, say drafting Rossi, how much worse off are we compared to if we kept Stone?

Rossi and Brannstrom

Or

Stone and a 6 to 10th OA pick (one of Holtz, Perfetti, Lundell, ect)

It all comes down to the lottery I guess, that extra % chance of getting a top 3 pick, but if we slide out of the top 3, I'd rather have Stone

It wasn't really way back when

Stone had an elc, then he had a 3 year deal, then he signed the 1 year deal. The shit show was in full bloom when he signed the one year deal. The Hoffman/Karlsson affair had occurred. I forget the exact timing but it was known when Karlsson didn't sign that he was being traded (I'mthinking Stone signed the one year deal just prior to him being traded). The Melnyk outdoor game had happened.

It's easy to say that the team should have locked him up in the summer of 2018. It's a lot harder to do with the shit that had occurred

Players have rights under the CBA and agents to advise them on how to maximize their rights.

At the end of the day a deal never got done in the summer of 2018. I have my reservations that the team was entirely at fault there.

Seriously if you were Mark Stone, would you have signed with the team long term in the summer of 2018?

 

[Crosside]

It wasn't really way back when

Stone had an elc, then he had a 3 year deal, then he signed the 1 year deal. The shit show was in full bloom when he signed the one year deal. The Hoffman/Karlsson affair had occurred. I forget the exact timing but it was known when Karlsson didn't sign that he was being traded (I'mthinking Stone signed the one year deal just prior to him being traded). The Melnyk outdoor game had happened.

It's easy to say that the team should have locked him up in the summer of 2018. It's a lot harder to do with the shit that had occurred

Players have rights under the CBA and agents to advise them on how to maximize their rights.

At the end of the day a deal never got done in the summer of 2018. I have my reservations that the team was entirely at fault there.

Seriously if you were Mark Stone, would you have signed with the team long term in the summer of 2018?

Exactly if he really want to stay , he have sign in the summer

 

[Micklebot]

It wasn't really way back when

Stone had an elc, then he had a 3 year deal, then he signed the 1 year deal. The shit show was in full bloom when he signed the one year deal. The Hoffman/Karlsson affair had occurred. I forget the exact timing but it was known when Karlsson didn't sign that he was being traded (I'mthinking Stone signed the one year deal just prior to him being traded). The Melnyk outdoor game had happened.

It's easy to say that the team should have locked him up in the summer of 2018. It's a lot harder to do with the shit that had occurred

Players have rights under the CBA and agents to advise them on how to maximize their rights.

At the end of the day a deal never got done in the summer of 2018. I have my reservations that the team was entirely at fault there.

Seriously if you were Mark Stone, would you have signed with the team long term in the summer of 2018?

So, first, the way you framed the question, it didn't seem to me to be asking how could we sign him, rather how could we rebuild if we he could have signed. So i answer what i thought you were getting at.

To answer how we could have signed him, thats pretty straight forward, we were able to sign that 1 year deal or any other we could come to terms on a full year earlier then when we eventually did mins prior to arbitration. We could sign him right after our big run on jul 1st 2017. He was clearly a core piece of the future at that time, that was the time to bet on him imo and i would have said as much back then.

In the end, he could always have said no, just as you suggest he would have in 2018, nobody is suggesting otherwise, but its just guesswork. He clearly had strong feelings about Ottawa, i think we could have gotten things done as things were looking really positive at that time (2017) but there is no way to know for sure.

 

[FlyingJ]

If Muckler never traded Hossa and managed to keep Chara over Redden, it would have changed everything and the Sens might have had a Cup or two... and many more playoffs rounds won. Those 2 moves are pretty much the kick start to the eventual struggles the Sens went through since the SCF in 2007

I mean, maybe? But keeping Hossa on the contract he signed would have meant less cap space to re-sign Chara and deal with the rest of the roster at a time when the cap was roughly just $45 million.

And let's be honest, as good as Hossa was, he was also, at best, the 4th or 5th most important skater on any of those Chicago Cup winners. Heck, Quenneville had to make excuses for his lack of goal scoring during their first run. He notched just 21 goals in 107 playoff games with the Hawks. Hossa was never going to be THE guy in the playoffs, the one to come through in the clutch or put the team on his back, and the only time he played like one was when he was alongside Crosby and/or Malkin.

Of course, even when he wasn't scoring his two-way game was so good that he wasn't really costing you anything. But I dunno, would his presence have changed things for the better that much, especially when you consider the cap and how that would impact the construction of the rest of the roster, Melnyk's finances, etc.?

Even if we'd had Chara in 2007, I don't think the Sens would have won the Cup. The Ducks were so much deeper. Chara would have given the Sens one HHoF d-man, but the Ducks would have still had 2 in addition to the rest of their solid d-corps.

As for players who weren't missed enough, I'll go with Peter Schaefer. The guy was a perfect middle-six forward, amazing along the boards, and worked well with Fisher. While he really dropped off after going to Boston (BTW what was up with that? IIRC he requested a trade shortly after the Finals), Shean Donovan a 4th liner, so he wasn't really making up for what the Sens lost.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I mean, maybe? But keeping Hossa on the contract he signed would have meant less cap space to re-sign Chara and deal with the rest of the roster at a time when the cap was roughly just $45 million.

And let's be honest, as good as Hossa was, he was also, at best, the 4th or 5th most important skater on any of those Chicago Cup winners. Heck, Quenneville had to make excuses for his lack of goal scoring during their first run. He notched just 21 goals in 107 playoff games with the Hawks. Hossa was never going to be THE guy in the playoffs, the one to come through in the clutch or put the team on his back, and the only time he played like one was when he was alongside Crosby and/or Malkin.

Of course, even when he wasn't scoring his two-way game was so good that he wasn't really costing you anything. But I dunno, would his presence have changed things for the better that much, especially when you consider the cap and how that would impact the construction of the rest of the roster, Melnyk's finances, etc.?

Even if we'd had Chara in 2007, I don't think the Sens would have won the Cup. The Ducks were so much deeper. Chara would have given the Sens one HHoF d-man, but the Ducks would have still had 2 in addition to the rest of their solid d-corps.

As for players who weren't missed enough, I'll go with Peter Schaefer. The guy was a perfect middle-six forward, amazing along the boards, and worked well with Fisher. While he really dropped off after going to Boston (BTW what was up with that? IIRC he requested a trade shortly after the Finals), Shean Donovan a 4th liner, so he wasn't really making up for what the Sens lost.

ya but do you remember how good Hossa was in Atlant? He was a dominant two way beast. If the Sens had him instead of Heater I think they get past Buffalo and Carolina to win the cup.

 

[FlyingJ]

ya but do you remember how good Hossa was in Atlant? He was a dominant two way beast. If the Sens had him instead of Heater I think they get past Buffalo and Carolina to win the cup.

One guy would have changed an entire series where the Sens lost in 5 games and had an inexperienced young goalie as opposed to their all-star goalie? You can count me as being skeptical.

You know what I also remember about Atlanta: despite having him, Kovalchuk, Savard, and Kozlov they only made the playoffs once. They got swept and Hossa had just 1 assist.