OT: What Really Saddens Me about the Karlsson Trade

Tnuoc Alucard

🇨🇦🔑🧲✈️🎲🥅🎱🍟🥨🌗
Sep 23, 2015
8,034
1,909

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,645
30,812
I think there are a lot of possibilities for sure

if you go rebuild you can't simply ice a bunch of minor leaguers and getting Boedker back provides a legit nhler. the return on that trade wasn't great but neither were the circumstances which didn't favour ottawa. my take based on everything I've read is Karlsson is a part of the rebuild but not with an open cheque book. I realize that the terms of a contract impact a contract but by all accounts the AAV offered was in the ballpark. I saw someone post maybe a bunch of the contract was in the lockout year.... anything is possible but that is rather unlikely. more likely imo is a rising salary throughout the contract that aligned better with anticipated revenue as the move to Lebreton would have happened in the back half of the deal. it's a business. that's the business reality of this franchise. a front loaded deal is likely something we didn't have the money for with the new arena on the horizon. it all strikes me as money wise it was close with one side thinking this is as far as we can go and the other thinking it's not far enough. that's life. move on. based on what we got back, it'll be a few years before the real results of the trade are clear. without knowing how the prospects turn out, how the draft picks turn out, how the NHLers acquired adapt to potentially larger roles, whether Karlsson signs and we get another pick. it's fashionable right now to **** on ottawa and the media have done that consistently since last December. They've been wrong on pretty much everything EK related since then. I'm quite good with watching this play out and assessing what we have rather than declaring winners and losers right now, especially so because I'm not in a rush to condemn everything this franchise does.

The options weren't trade for Boedker or play a bunch of minor leaguers (though it's starting to look like we'll do that anyways), if memory serves the trade was made before the UFA period, so they could have taken a futures package, and then made offers to UFA like Grabner, Bozak, or some other UFA.

I agree a back loaded contract is more likely than loading up the lockout years, that was brought up as an example of how not all contracts with the same cap hit are equal, that's all, same as how not having a NMC or NTC affects the deal. Changes like these can be used to negotiate down a contract.

The idea of not judging winners and losers now always seems odd to me. Yes, the trade could end up working out in our favour if we hit on some picks, or Karlsson's career goes off the rails, but the perceived value at the time of the trade is what the traded should be judged on; could you have gotten a better return had you played your cards differently. It seems the vast majority of the pundits feel Dorion didn't get value. Maybe there's behind the scenes reasons what that is, my take is it's because of artificial deadlines and changing the ask (wanting Ryan included while still getting a max return, then changing just to max return after teams took themselves out of play combined with an unwillingness to start the season with Karlsson and wait till the deadline if needed).

As for pundits being wrong about everything up till now, idk, you can't confirm or deny trades talks that didn't result in a trade, they may have happened as described but never gotten over the hump.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrEasy

Karl Prime

Registered User
Feb 13, 2017
4,601
4,340
Karlsson said that it was made clear to him that he wasn't in the team's plans going forward. If you believe that (and he's always been honest), then EK wanting to stay wouldn't make any difference and any contract that they offered him would have been made knowing he'd reject it because they didn't want to re-sign him.
 

starling

Registered User
Nov 7, 2010
10,862
2,770
Ottawa
True leadership starts at the top. It's funny that Dorion throws character and leadership around and forgot (or never learnt) that you gotta walk the walk before you can talk the talk.
f***ing BINGO.
Imagine what guys like Duchene and Stone think right now of this management knowing first hand what was happening and reading this crap in the news. Why the f*** would they want to re-sign with this sleazy organization?
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,086
9,660
Karlsson said that it was made clear to him that he wasn't in the team's plans going forward. If you believe that (and he's always been honest), then EK wanting to stay wouldn't make any difference and any contract that they offered him would have been made knowing he'd reject it because they didn't want to re-sign him.

when did he say that? that it was made clear to him?
 

Tnuoc Alucard

🇨🇦🔑🧲✈️🎲🥅🎱🍟🥨🌗
Sep 23, 2015
8,034
1,909
Karlsson said that it was made clear to him that he wasn't in the team's plans going forward. If you believe that (and he's always been honest), then EK wanting to stay wouldn't make any difference and any contract that they offered him would have been made knowing he'd reject it because they didn't want to re-sign him.


He was offered (reportedly) the same term and money as Drew Doughty. The extension was not structured like Drew Doughtys' was, with big signing bonuses for a number of years, and EK65 must have felt that he was worth at least the same type of structure in his extension.... and rightly so, he is the better of the two.

EM has been burnt a few times with contracts structured with huge signing bonuses (See Heatley) in the past, and it's obvious he'll never allow another contract to be structured in that was as long as he's owner.

Therefore EK65 knew that he'd have to seek a contract/extension elsewhere and that it probably why he and his agent did not give the Senators and counter offer, he probably went home and started packing.

I feel he's going to wait and become an UFA, and get exactly what he feels he's entitled to, and that's his right, and I have no problem with that..... It's how the business is nowadays.

IF he signs an extension, with San Jose, I'm sure it will be for more that DD and structured in a very similar way at the very least.
 

Karl Prime

Registered User
Feb 13, 2017
4,601
4,340
when did he say that? that it was made clear to him?

To correct myself, he said this:

"I think they made it very clear what direction they are going with, and unfortunately I wasn't part of that."

We know EK didn't ask to be traded so they made the decision to trade him. Erik didn't force their hand. And I'm sure if this supposed "rebuild" decision that was made in February, Erik would have been made aware of the team's plans long before the last week or two.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,645
30,812
when did he say that? that it was made clear to him?


if you're interested, here's some quotes and the video

Watch Live: Erik Karlsson press conference - Sportsnet.ca

Breaking: An emotional Karlsson shocks everyone during press conference!

"I never in my wildest imagination every thought that I would leave this place, but unfortunately we're here under these circumstances."
"I never wanted to leave this place, but I respect their decision."
"They made it very clear with what direction they're going in - and I wasn't part of that."
"I have to leave this beautiful place..."
"Ottawa will be my forever home. I will always considered Ottawa my home, even if I don't play for the organization."
"I'm going to go to an extremely good team... I'm excited about that, as well. But as of right now, I'm just trying to wrap my mind around having to leave this wonderful place."

 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,086
9,660
if you're interested, here's some quotes and the video

Watch Live: Erik Karlsson press conference - Sportsnet.ca

Breaking: An emotional Karlsson shocks everyone during press conference!

"I never in my wildest imagination every thought that I would leave this place, but unfortunately we're here under these circumstances."
"I never wanted to leave this place, but I respect their decision."
"They made it very clear with what direction they're going in - and I wasn't part of that."
"I have to leave this beautiful place..."
"Ottawa will be my forever home. I will always considered Ottawa my home, even if I don't play for the organization."
"I'm going to go to an extremely good team... I'm excited about that, as well. But as of right now, I'm just trying to wrap my mind around having to leave this wonderful place."

I've seen all that stuff

I've seen all the stuff from the mgmt side too

I've heard Dorion kind of bumble public speaking

I heard Dorion on a replay on 1200 today say we couldn't offer less than Doughty money and didn't. He also said I did contracts in the BM era and since then as GM and I know when a contract isn't going anywhere.

IDK man....if they offered Doughty money.....which was publicly stated yesterday and with it out there EK could certainly bury them if not true....I'd say it's more accurate to say " I was not in their plans based on the kind of contract I wanted"

I imagine he certainly would have been in the plan had he signed for that money
 
  • Like
Reactions: bcag04

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,645
30,812
I've seen all that stuff

I've seen all the stuff from the mgmt side too

I've heard Dorion kind of bumble public speaking

I heard Dorion on a replay on 1200 today say we couldn't offer less than Doughty money and didn't. He also said I did contracts in the BM era and since then as GM and I know when a contract isn't going anywhere.

IDK man....if they offered Doughty money.....which was publicly stated yesterday and with it out there EK could certainly bury them if not true....I'd say it's more accurate to say " I was not in their plans based on the kind of contract I wanted"

I imagine he certainly would have been in the plan had he signed for that money

It's pretty rare for players to call out teams statements though, heck even Turris was hesitant to go into details despite it seeming clear that he didn't agree with what Dorion said after the trade, instead his wife offered the more direct comment.

One side in this situation has every reason to launch into damage control, while the other seems intent to move on. That doesn't mean that the team is for certain lying, but they certainly have a lot of incentive to spin the story in a more favourable light.
 

Karl Prime

Registered User
Feb 13, 2017
4,601
4,340
I think it's most likely EK wasn't in their plans but he didn't get moved at the deadline or at the draft because they wanted to sell as many season tickets as possible. The day before training camp is the worst time to trade a star player.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
I've seen all that stuff

I've seen all the stuff from the mgmt side too

I've heard Dorion kind of bumble public speaking

I heard Dorion on a replay on 1200 today say we couldn't offer less than Doughty money and didn't. He also said I did contracts in the BM era and since then as GM and I know when a contract isn't going anywhere.

IDK man....if they offered Doughty money.....which was publicly stated yesterday and with it out there EK could certainly bury them if not true....I'd say it's more accurate to say " I was not in their plans based on the kind of contract I wanted"

I imagine he certainly would have been in the plan had he signed for that money
Are you seriously maintaining that the 88M number is meaningful if the contract failed to have NMC and bonus money?

C'mon JD1, they gave him an offer they KNEW he would decline to save face.
 

BoardsofCanada

Registered User
Aug 26, 2009
1,064
1,170
G.T.A.
Are you seriously maintaining that the 88M number is meaningful if the contract failed to have NMC and bonus money?

C'mon JD1, they gave him an offer they KNEW he would decline to save face.

I swear to god senung, the way you accuse others of being Melnyk lackies or being Melnyk himself, I swear you must be karlsson's pool boy or something. Are you his maid? Do you scrub his floors... tell the truth. The way you defend everything that is anti management seems overboard.
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,086
9,660
It's pretty rare for players to call out teams statements though, heck even Turris was hesitant to go into details despite it seeming clear that he didn't agree with what Dorion said after the trade, instead his wife offered the more direct comment.

One side in this situation has every reason to launch into damage control, while the other seems intent to move on. That doesn't mean that the team is for certain lying, but they certainly have a lot of incentive to spin the story in a more favourable light.

and we can go around in circles forever

what is clear is the exact situation is not clear

and exactly as I said in the Turris situation I think it's an agenda to blame it all on one side. there simply isn't enough information to do so
 

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,805
4,497
and we can go around in circles forever

what is clear is the exact situation is not clear

and exactly as I said in the Turris situation I think it's an agenda to blame it all on one side. there simply isn't enough information to do so

It is a no-win situation. Just look at Pacioretty. He said he didn't ask for a trade, Montreal management have been unequivocal that he did. Now, Pacioretty's camp has said that it could have been perceived blah blah blah.

Karlsson said what he had to say. He knows the rumored offers are out there. Someone has to go down for this.
 

cage

Registered User
Apr 25, 2004
403
12
The saddest part is that we just gave away a top 3-5 player in the Nhl. It wasn't a trade, sens just gave him away. I don't know if that's ever happened in sports before, where a consensus top 5 player was traded for nothing
 

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,805
4,497
The saddest part is that we just gave away a top 3-5 player in the Nhl. It wasn't a trade, sens just gave him away. I don't know if that's ever happened in sports before, where a consensus top 5 player was traded for nothing

Any top 5 player traded will seem like you are getting nothing. Gretzky. Ya, they won in 1990, so maybe technically not, but they traded freaking Wayne Gretzky. Jagr. Lindros maybe the only one where it worked out possibly?
 

Zorf

Apparently I'm entitled?
Jan 4, 2008
4,946
1,566
personally I don't think young kids get too far into it to have all those thoughts
My 8 year old, after being told Karlsson was traded, said, "So, are we Sharks fans now? And can I get a Karlsson Sharks jersey?"

My 6yr old also wants a Karlsson Sharks jersey.

So yeah, even kids know this team is run by a bunch of yahoos
 

Studzle

Registered User
Dec 1, 2013
757
485
Toronto
Logs into Twitter.

Sees 30 photo’s of Karlsson in a Sharks uniform.

Logs out of Twitter.

Signs into HFBoards.

f*** Melnyk.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,827
9,765
Montreal, Canada
****ing BINGO.
Imagine what guys like Duchene and Stone think right now of this management knowing first hand what was happening and reading this crap in the news. Why the **** would they want to re-sign with this sleazy organization?

Watch out because you're basically saying here that if Duchene and Stone re-sign, then maybe it was us that were judging this management way too hard and we were wrong all the way... making us look like true absolute fools.
 

Gil Gunderson

Registered User
May 2, 2007
30,577
15,953
Ottawa, ON
My 8 year old, after being told Karlsson was traded, said, "So, are we Sharks fans now? And can I get a Karlsson Sharks jersey?"

My 6yr old also wants a Karlsson Sharks jersey.

So yeah, even kids know this team is run by a bunch of yahoos

They’ll never learn how to establish a fanbase. It’s even worse when you consider the fact that this is coinciding with the Leafs becoming a top team.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad