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What probability do you feel Ovechkin has to catch Gretzky now?

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filinski77

filinski77

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Feb 12, 2017
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Hockey4Lyfe said:
When you think of all time greats in almost every sport, individual records are typically thrown to the side for actual championships. Since that is the point of any team sport, to win championships.

You say scoring goals is fundamental to hockey, but not allowing goals and winning are just as important.
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Hockey is an odd sport in that one player cannot impact the game significantly enough to sway that. I think Ovechkin actually lead the caps in points and goals in the playoffs more often than Crosby did for the penguins. It was not Ovechkins fault the rest of his team didn’t have it together.

For example, it is likely that if Crosby didn’t have Malkin, he would probably have 2-3 less cups. Would that make Crosby less of an all time great? I don’t think so. Orr only won 2 cups in a league that was half the size of the league today, but nobody discredits him for not winning 4-5 cups. I just think that’s silly.
 
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Kuz

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May 11, 2015
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Hockey4Lyfe said:
When you think of all time greats in almost every sport, individual records are typically thrown to the side for actual championships. Since that is the point of any team sport, to win championships.
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Not true at all. Messier was one of the best players during much of the same period as Gretzky and picked up 6 Stanley cups to Gretzky's 4. Not a single person would argue Messier is the better player because he had more team success and Gretzky never being able to win without Messier.

Team achievements don't say anything about who the best player is. 4th liners can pick up several cups, but a career 4th liner wont win a Hart.
 
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Hockey4Lyfe

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Feb 26, 2018
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Kuz said:
Not true at all. Messier was one of the best players during much of the same period as Gretzky and picked up 6 Stanley cups to Gretzky's 4. Not a single person would argue Messier is the better player because he had more team success and Gretzky never being able to win without Messier.

Team achievements don't say anything about who the best player is. 4th liners can pick up several cups, but a career 4th liner wont win a Hart.
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Yes because Gretzky set almost every single record there was to set. No shit no one would argue that.

And that’s one instance with the greatest of all time. When most things being equal, the number of championships will be what is looked at. Not individual records.
 

Hockey4Lyfe

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Feb 26, 2018
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filinski77 said:
Hockey is an odd sport in that one player cannot impact the game significantly enough to sway that. I think Ovechkin actually lead the caps in points and goals in the playoffs more often than Crosby did for the penguins. It was not Ovechkins fault the rest of his team didn’t have it together.

For example, it is likely that if Crosby didn’t have Malkin, he would probably have 2-3 less cups. Would that make Crosby less of an all time great? I don’t think so. Orr only won 2 cups in a league that was half the size of the league today, but nobody discredits him for not winning 4-5 cups. I just think that’s silly.
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Somehow Capitals fans always come back to it was the rest of the teams fault and not Ovechkins. The same teams that won President cups but couldnt nut up when it mattered most.
 
txpd

txpd

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Jan 25, 2003
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Hockey4Lyfe said:
Just like Dan Marino in football. You have to actually win something, (or win more than 1) championship to be considered the greatest of all time.

Exactly why Brees will always be in the shawdows of Brady/Manning. He only led his team to a championship once while the others went multiple times.

How can Ovechkin be considered a great team leader when the Capitals have pulled off some of the biggest choke jobs outside of 2018 is hilarious to say in itself.
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Kuz

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May 11, 2015
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Hockey4Lyfe said:
Yes because Gretzky set almost every single record there was to set. No shit no one would argue that.

And that’s one instance with the greatest of all time. When most things being equal, the number of championships will be what is looked at. Not individual records.
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Still Ovi might break several goalscoring records. PPG is just a matter of time, goals is still a possibility even tough Covid have made the chance for it happening a little smaller. GWG is also a very good chance Ovi will take. In a full season he averages 8 a year. Crosby wont come close to anyone. If Ovi plays around 4-5 more seasons he could be the leader in Goals, Overtime goals, Game winning goals, powerplay goals and shots. So when you open NHL's stat page and check out the all time leaders Ovi has a chance of leading 5 (If he do take those records Gretzky will lead 8). Crosby will lead 0 with Ovi also having way more individual records I just dont see team achievements being the difference.

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HurricaneFanatic

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Just checked shots on goal. Ovi already has over 600 more than Wayne and many more than Lemieux. Starting to rethink this whole, greatest goal scorer of all time thing.
 
DrewGl

DrewGl

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Jul 28, 2018
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filinski77 said:
Hockey is an odd sport in that one player cannot impact the game significantly enough to sway that. I think Ovechkin actually lead the caps in points and goals in the playoffs more often than Crosby did for the penguins. It was not Ovechkins fault the rest of his team didn’t have it together.

For example, it is likely that if Crosby didn’t have Malkin, he would probably have 2-3 less cups. Would that make Crosby less of an all time great? I don’t think so. Orr only won 2 cups in a league that was half the size of the league today, but nobody discredits him for not winning 4-5 cups. I just think that’s silly.
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Good post.
 
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