Player Discussion What management personal do you want to keep?

[nuck]

Actually, it's Craig MacTavish who oversees the Condors IIRC. He also aids the pro scouts, which sours that conceptually.

But again, how can you really look at this as a results based business when we're talking about bit players in a larger machine where, from the outside, it's impossible to know which parts are working and which parts are not?

Are the Condors so successful because management and coaching did something (certainly there were few Jay Woodcroft fans on this board last year) or because they had a huge influx of young talent, including the best rookie line in the league and a rookie goaltender who has been standing on his head in 2019?

Is it worth laying waste to the damned skating and video coaches when the biggest problem could have been as simple as Peter Chiarelli's direction actively hurting the roster depth?

I was more pointing out that the Condors depth of quality young players didn't occur in a vacuum, I didn't mean to imply that it was all due to drafting. The success of the Bakersfield team is due to a lot of different positive factors but the prospect depth in the organization in the AHL, and in Junior, is the best it has been in recent memory and that is primarily driven by the club's successful amateur scouting, which really only started after MacGregor was moved out. We all want major changes but that shouldn't include the areas that actually seem to be working as well as every other teams, and scouts don't make the trades.

Chia didn't make his bad choices in a vacuum either, but there is no evidence that it was any of his subordinates that talked him into his series of talent diluting moves. Before he dealt Hall, he had traded Wheeler and Seguin for pennies on the dollar so I don't know that we need to look much past him for the current situation.

 

[Messrules11]

I keep both Gretzky’s and Hitch. Everyone else can ****off

 

[alphahelix]

According to a number of interviews to this point, 4 years ago analytics played a much bigger role on the Oilers. Chiarelli and co. Squelched the usage.

If this means that MBA MacT was the guy developing analytics dept here with his stats and his maths and whatnot, doesnt that make it clear that his m.o. is dissimilar to the rest of mgmt, and that perhaps he should be retained? He is getting the credit for Condors a lot lately, which is perhaps a ploy but also perhaps has some validity. He has had some successes to his name in the past, which is more than most of the group can claim. He is tainted by the orgs failures like the rest of them but just wondering whether theres a chance that he can be a positive here. He seemed to find some talent in the rough as a coach (say what you will of the Petersons, they didnt cost much). Meh.

 

[nuck]

Green blew up much of any currency he had with me over the Griffin Reinhart fiasco. Let’s also be honest about our prospect pool. I am excited by how well the farm team is doing, for a change, and we have some decent pieces coming, but I doubt we have a prospect pool in the top 10 of NHL clubs. To be fair to Green, Chiarelli cost us a lot of 2nd rounders, but he also gave the team Marody, Day, Gambardella and Starret. Overall it’s a pretty mediocre group of Green draft picks. I guess we’ll see the ranks when the next Future Watch comes out.

Sorry but how is Green responsible for Griffin Reinhart except by association with the Oil Kings? This club has been drafting and trading for ex Oil Kings for years, they covet what they see every day.
He said himself he hadn't seen the guy play as a pro, so do you really think recollection of a kid as a good Junior was what caused Chia to make that deal? Everyone in the organization watched the Oil Kings win the Cup and everybody thought Reinhart was a good Junior but there were pro scouts who actually saw GR play including Chia's Boston people. It isn't the DPP's job to to make trades so even if he really liked GR he isn't going to tell the GM to acquire him. I am pretty sure that pick was going out for a "riper" player no matter what.

I wouldn't say the picks are mediocre until we see where they stop improving. If Jones and Bear are going to take the next step that is huge. If Samorukov and Maksimov make it as well the drafting will be certified solid. They are just prospects now but it looks a lot brighter than when we were hoping for Yakimov and Slepyshev to turn things around. At least we are looking at players with a high upside and that has been a while coming.

 

[Cypress]

Hmm this thread makes it really apparent how hard it is to tell these things as a fan. Woodcraft from last year to this year is a great example. I kinda wish for the poll there could be a 'yes', 'unsure' and 'no' option as we really only see so much as fans.

There's a lot of guys I think we want cleaned out "just to be safe" lol, but it's hard to tell how they're actually doing their job.

Basically I just picked the guys I feel good about, with the exception of MacTavish, who I'm inclined to (perhaps foolishly) give the benefit of the doubt due to his supposed role of overseeing Bakersfield.

Schwartz and Nicholson need to go imo, and I'd like to see at least some of upper management cleaned out for a fresh look.

 

[nuck]

According to a number of interviews to this point, 4 years ago analytics played a much bigger role on the Oilers. Chiarelli and co. Squelched the usage.

If this means that MBA MacT was the guy developing analytics dept here with his stats and his maths and whatnot, doesnt that make it clear that his m.o. is dissimilar to the rest of mgmt, and that perhaps he should be retained? He is getting the credit for Condors a lot lately, which is perhaps a ploy but also perhaps has some validity. He has had some successes to his name in the past, which is more than most of the group can claim. He is tainted by the orgs failures like the rest of them but just wondering whether theres a chance that he can be a positive here. He seemed to find some talent in the rough as a coach (say what you will of the Petersons, they didnt cost much). Meh.

Tyler Dellow and Dallas Eakins were not well liked, and that may have been what soured the club on relying too much on analytics. Chia being old school wouldn't have brought it back. Even people who don't love analytics understand how far it has come in the last couple of years. I hope someone is pushed that out. I hadn't heard that about MacT but good for him if he is a supporter.

 

[FlameChampion]

Hmm this thread makes it really apparent how hard it is to tell these things as a fan. Woodcraft from last year to this year is a great example. I kinda wish for the poll there could be a 'yes', 'unsure' and 'no' option as we really only see so much as fans.

There's a lot of guys I think we want cleaned out "just to be safe" lol, but it's hard to tell how they're actually doing their job.

Basically I just picked the guys I feel good about, with the exception of MacTavish, who I'm inclined to (perhaps foolishly) give the benefit of the doubt due to his supposed role of overseeing Bakersfield.

Schwartz and Nicholson need to go imo, and I'd like to see at least some of upper management cleaned out for a fresh look.

I just think its really tough as fans to comment on, when we dont get to see whats going on behind the scenes.

If top management/ownership was competent, they would know whos pulling their weight and whos not. But here we are, ownership and top management have done a poor job (we as fans dont know all of the reasons). Its a sad state when fans are questioning whats going on because its very obvious, that theres a problem with ownership and/or top management for a long time with this team.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

I think Pelletier should get more votes than this.

He did a great job with Draisaitl and we're going to have to hope he can do it with Bouchard too.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I think Pelletier should get more votes than this.

He did a great job with Draisaitl and we're going to have to hope he can do it with Bouchard too.

he did?

seems likes he credits a guy named Marian Voda

Draisaitl’s work in summer pays off in November and December

 

[iCanada]

That... and i don't hook Drai's skating was ever really bad. He's just a cerebral player who doesn't really rely on dynamism to create offense.

Even in junior he had decent edgework and was one of the fastest straight line skaters. Idk.

 

[Canovin]

Drai's secret training coach is really only McDavid who is also known as Drai's stick handling coach

 

[Cypress]

I think Pelletier should get more votes than this.

He did a great job with Draisaitl and we're going to have to hope he can do it with Bouchard too.

I had never even heard of the guy until today, so I have no opinion on him.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I had never even heard of the guy until today, so I have no opinion on him.

Former Canadian Figure Skating star, he's done a very good job improving a lot of players' skating.

 

[redgrant]

I keep both Gretzky’s and Hitch. Everyone else can ****off

Hitchcock wanted Manning. Hes not suited for the sport in 2020.

 

[redgrant]

LOL Bill Scott 2 votes. Worst cap management in the league.

 

[Messrules11]

Hitchcock wanted Manning. Hes not suited for the sport in 2020.

If that’s true why isn’t he up here playing? Chia wanted Manning, he wanted him for a long time. It’s been reported lots

 

[smokersarejokers]

Yawney and K. Gretzky.

I don't even know Jeremy Coupal, but I'm sure he's a jerk! (Cheeky Simpsons reference I hope some people get...)

Everyone else can GTFO. Even Wayne, which pains me to say, but it seems like he doesn't really do anything.

 

[BudBundy]

Sorry but how is Green responsible for Griffin Reinhart except by association with the Oil Kings? This club has been drafting and trading for ex Oil Kings for years, they covet what they see every day.
He said himself he hadn't seen the guy play as a pro, so do you really think recollection of a kid as a good Junior was what caused Chia to make that deal? Everyone in the organization watched the Oil Kings win the Cup and everybody thought Reinhart was a good Junior but there were pro scouts who actually saw GR play including Chia's Boston people. It isn't the DPP's job to to make trades so even if he really liked GR he isn't going to tell the GM to acquire him. I am pretty sure that pick was going out for a "riper" player no matter what.

I wouldn't say the picks are mediocre until we see where they stop improving. If Jones and Bear are going to take the next step that is huge. If Samorukov and Maksimov make it as well the drafting will be certified solid. They are just prospects now but it looks a lot brighter than when we were hoping for Yakimov and Slepyshev to turn things around. At least we are looking at players with a high upside and that has been a while coming.

If Green wasn’t largely responsible for Reinhart then who was?? Chia admitted to not having watched him as a pro. I doubt either of MacT or Howson had much invested interest in Reinhart. So that leaves Sutter (a proven stooge) and Green. How could it be otherwise?? If the Oilers have an unhealthy fetish with Oil Kings, how can a large part of it not be from Green? If that pick (a high pick in the deepest draft of this generation) was going to be dealt no matter what, thats fine. The point is they picked a horrible target who busted spectacularly and I cannot see how Greens fingerprints arent all over it.
As for Jones, Bear, Samorukov, Benson, Maksimov, and Yamamoto etc, they collectively arent any better than most NHL teams depth charts. I dont think it’s hyperbole to say that every NHL team has prospects as good as Maksimov. I loathed the Yamamoto pick and I personally think he will bust hard. Their stories aren’t written yet, but NHLE’s have a tale to tell and it doesnt look good.
My point is that Green hasnt overachieved enough by my count to be worth saving.

 

[Wewillrise]

If Green stays it’s a sign there will be no accountability going forward IMO. If they can’t even get to recognizing he’s a failure than they are going no where fast.

 

[PinSeeker]

If Green stays it’s a sign there will be no accountability going forward IMO. If they can’t even get to recognizing he’s a failure than they are going no where fast.

Was about to post this, as they were just chatting on Oilers Now about the Reinhart trade. He is the architect of that horrendous deal, one of the worst in Oilers history. And he is still here... MacT I actually don't have much of an issue with.

Just hope whoever the GM (and in a perfect world, new POHO with Bobby Nicks flipping his burgers) comes in and gets the leeway to make wholesale change

 

[T-Funk]

Even on the Pelletier front, has any player actually become a better skater under him? Connor and Drai apparently do their own thing and everyone else become more and more sluggish by the day.

 

[fuswald]

Some obvious insider voting.

 

[I am the Liquor]

According to a number of interviews to this point, 4 years ago analytics played a much bigger role on the Oilers. Chiarelli and co. Squelched the usage.

If this means that MBA MacT was the guy developing analytics dept here with his stats and his maths and whatnot, doesnt that make it clear that his m.o. is dissimilar to the rest of mgmt, and that perhaps he should be retained? He is getting the credit for Condors a lot lately, which is perhaps a ploy but also perhaps has some validity. He has had some successes to his name in the past, which is more than most of the group can claim. He is tainted by the orgs failures like the rest of them but just wondering whether theres a chance that he can be a positive here. He seemed to find some talent in the rough as a coach (say what you will of the Petersons, they didnt cost much). Meh.

Guy fired one of the more successful coaches after half a season only to hire the worst in franchise history.

His shilling for Horcoff (should be on the Olympic team) was nothing short of embarrassing. Why would you want to keep the dumbest man in hockey? Because he seemed to favour Fibonacci numbers? Pfffft.

 

[TheRebuild]

I said Hitch, Glen, Trent and Manny (newer hires that have no connection to Katz - also would be nice to maintain some consistency behind the bench over the revolving door). I would actually like a new poll that asked which people from the front office should be fired immediately at the conclusion of the season. For that one (in order of who needs to be fired the most): MacTavish, Lowe, Nicholson, Howson, Green, Scott and Sutter.

The goalie coaches also need to hit the road too. And Chiarelli's brother needs to GTFO as well (noticed he wasn't on the list).

IF they fired any two of the above and I could choose who it would be, I would take MacTavish and Lowe and shit can them for being around as long as they have. I don't care what jobs they have now, or if they're good at them. They're both idiots who made self-serving decisions that set this team back by more than a decade and they should be punished for that. It would send a great message to the fanbase and players themselves that there is some level accountability for your performance going forward. If Katz wants to hire them to work in his pharmacy or something, restocking shelves (which I think they're both qualified to do), I'd be fine with it.

 

[MikeGrier99]

I can't take an Oiler fan seriously if they think Lowe, Mact, Bobby burgers, Howson, or green deserve to stay a day further.

As for the rest, I'd prefer to blow the whole thing up. Save some of the assistants. I don't want KG around anymore either, he failed as right hand man.

If too many of the old boys still have prominent roles in the club this summer I'll probably take an Oiler hiatus until they aren't. I just feel way too insulted to stay tuned to oilers hockey when Bobby Burgers is trying to tell me this isn't a tire fire.