What makes RNH a step below Couturier and Landeskog?

[Bjorn Le]

Don't forget that Landeskog and Couturier and Larsson are all 18 years old and that they have a year of developement of muscular strenght and shape that RNH doesn't have...

All 3 of those were big already at 17. Larsson and Landedkog were both over 200 lbs already.

 

[StuckOutHere]

All the mock drafts I have done have mostly had RNH as the consensus 4th overall pick. In my opinion it's a three way race for first overall between NJ, NYI, and EDM. BOS, OTT, and BUF could pull out a lottery miracle. All of these teams except OTT would choose Adam Larsson if selecting first in my opinion. I have Couturier going second, Landeskog(my personal favourite) going third and then RNH going fourth. Though unlikely, I wouldn't be too surprised if Ryan Murphy snuck in ahead of RNH depending who is drafting 4th(for example, if BOS drafts fourth). Even Brandon Saad could sneak ahead of him due to him being a winger with good size. RNH I think could be a victim of teams being well stocked with high impact offensive prospects down the middle and could be this years Cam Fowler. He could go as high as sixth.

 

[DuklaNation]

It comes down to size. Joe Sakic was drafted 15th after all.

 

[Minister of Offence]

All the mock drafts I have done have mostly had RNH as the consensus 4th overall pick. In my opinion it's a three way race for first overall between NJ, NYI, and EDM. BOS, OTT, and BUF could pull out a lottery miracle. All of these teams except OTT would choose Adam Larsson if selecting first in my opinion. I have Couturier going second, Landeskog(my personal favourite) going third and then RNH going fourth. Though unlikely, I wouldn't be too surprised if Ryan Murphy snuck in ahead of RNH depending who is drafting 4th(for example, if BOS drafts fourth). Even Brandon Saad could sneak ahead of him due to him being a winger with good size. RNH I think could be a victim of teams being well stocked with high impact offensive prospects down the middle and could be this years Cam Fowler. He could go as high as sixth.

Not sure what types of inside opinions on Larsson teams like NJ, EDM, NYI but Ottawa's got a close relationship with the person most involved with Larsson's development right now, and he's responsible for 3 of our top 4 prospects in addition to Karlsson. If Larsson's available wherever Ottawa picks, they'll take him.

 

[arsmaster*]

His skating is not like Matt Duchene and i could only imagine it will get slightly worse with size, might lose a little bit of a step. He is a world class playmaker though, he has special vision, but he doesn't bring the element of a two way game, Such as Landenskog, or a game breaking trait, such as Coutirier, and I think that's why hell be slated to being chosen 4th overall. And the thing holding Sam Ganger back from taking the next step is not his skating, its his board play, easy to take off the puck, i cant say I won't see RNH having similar problems.

I absolutely hate this statement, because Crosby, Duchene and any other young NHLer I can guarantee is faster than when he was 17 years old. The added mass that most hockey players look for is in the lower body (getting heavier and stronger in the legs will make you faster and give you the added ability to protect the puck).

I said it in another thread....Zetterberg was waaaaay skinnier than RNH when he was drafted and now is one of the top 15 players in the league and is extremely hard to knock off the puck.

YOu take the skill level and hockey IQ over size and anyday. Im not saying that any of the other guys ranked in the top 5 are less skilled or have low hockey IQ's, but if you think RNH will be the better player in 5 years you draft him, whether not he is 170lbs and has to be play 2 more years in junior.

I mean you could play devils advocate and instead of the common perception that teams drafting at the top of the draft need help immediately, they could draft Nugent-Hopkins allow him to continue his development in the CHL, save years on his ELC, and allow him to step in to the NHL when they think he will have a the greatest chance to succeed at a very high level, when hopefully that team will have a solid young core group to allow the team to compete at a higher level as well.

Its hard to compare the guys, as they all have great attributes that will allow them to be top players at the next level. Like someone said earlier you got a Pronger, Sakic, Richards, and Staal like players available...all of which are excellent cornerstones for each franchises, its essentially going to come down to need.

I cant wait to see them all on the ice against eachother at the top prospects game next week.

 

[DuklaNation]

Well, Zetterberg was skinny and now isnt. Therefore, all players that were skinny arent now. This is an absurd theory.

 

[bluechipbonzo]

I absolutely hate this statement, because Crosby, Duchene and any other young NHLer I can guarantee is faster than when he was 17 years old. The added mass that most hockey players look for is in the lower body (getting heavier and stronger in the legs will make you faster and give you the added ability to protect the puck).

I said it in another thread....Zetterberg was waaaaay skinnier than RNH when he was drafted and now is one of the top 15 players in the league and is extremely hard to knock off the puck.

YOu take the skill level and hockey IQ over size and anyday. Im not saying that any of the other guys ranked in the top 5 are less skilled or have low hockey IQ's, but if you think RNH will be the better player in 5 years you draft him, whether not he is 170lbs and has to be play 2 more years in junior.

I mean you could play devils advocate and instead of the common perception that teams drafting at the top of the draft need help immediately, they could draft Nugent-Hopkins allow him to continue his development in the CHL, save years on his ELC, and allow him to step in to the NHL when they think he will have a the greatest chance to succeed at a very high level, when hopefully that team will have a solid young core group to allow the team to compete at a higher level as well.Its hard to compare the guys, as they all have great attributes that will allow them to be top players at the next level. Like someone said earlier you got a Pronger, Sakic, Richards, and Staal like players available...all of which are excellent cornerstones for each franchises, its essentially going to come down to need.

I cant wait to see them all on the ice against eachother at the top prospects game next week.

Exactly- who's to say said team doesn't already have a few young pieces in place - or ones ready to jump into the pros while RNH ripens in the CHL? For that matter, if said team is drafting top five, it could very well be that they'll be drafting top ten or worse for two or three more seasons, if not longer. The opportunity to draft on positional need will be there, to say nothing of players with size that are deemed NHL ready.

Hockey IQ comes first.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Who cares if he is light, what I want to know is if he avoids hits well and doesn't get destroyed by much bigger players. If he's slippery and speedy he won't have to worry about his size, or rather his weight as they will have a hard time getting a solid piece of him. That's a lot more important than lacking a couple lbs.

 

[Roof Daddy]

I haven't seen him play (outside of some highlights), heard nothing but good things, but I question how much weight he will be able to put on. He looks very slender. I remember Oiler scouts excited about Hall's build, knowing that with his shoulders/frame he should be able to play at 215 effectively. RNH must be the exact opposite. As long as he's strong on the puck it shouldn't matter, but I'd be shocked if he even tops 180 by draft time. Didn't Seguin weigh in a 186 at the combine? No way does RNH come in with that size.... unless he's not actually wearing shinpads and he has tree-trunk legs.

 

[Kevin Malone]

Couturier's last season was one of the most successful in the CHL for a non drafted player in a long time.

What since Tayor Hall or John Tavares?

Honestly you're overhying Couturier. If he was playing in the OHL, his great offensive season would not seem that amazing.

 

[SDig14]

Who cares if he is light, what I want to know is if he avoids hits well and doesn't get destroyed by much bigger players. If he's slippery and speedy he won't have to worry about his size, or rather his weight as they will have a hard time getting a solid piece of him. That's a lot more important than lacking a couple lbs.

He is extremely agile and slippery in the offensive zone, especially along on the boards. He seems to find ways to squeeze by hits and make plays at the same time. This part of his game kind of reminds you of Datsyuk or a Kane type player that rarely seems to get hit. Kane is another pretty good comparison for his style of play, quick, agile, good shot but primarily a pass first plalyer, great vision and IQ, etc.

Obviously he plays centre and not wing, but he has a similar frame to Kane as well, except probably about 2-3" taller than Kane as well...either way, his style of play doesn't really put him in a lot of bad spots to get hit hard

Also, he doesn't really shy away from physicality...he finishes his checks on the forecheck and in the corners, and that part of his game can only improve with strength over the next few years

 

[SDig14]

I haven't seen him play (outside of some highlights), heard nothing but good things, but I question how much weight he will be able to put on. He looks very slender. I remember Oiler scouts excited about Hall's build, knowing that with his shoulders/frame he should be able to play at 215 effectively. RNH must be the exact opposite. As long as he's strong on the puck it shouldn't matter, but I'd be shocked if he even tops 180 by draft time. Didn't Seguin weigh in a 186 at the combine? No way does RNH come in with that size.... unless he's not actually wearing shinpads and he has tree-trunk legs.

Keep in mind, Patrick Kane doesn't even weigh in at 180 NOW, and he is already 4 seasons into his NHL career

His style of play doesn't really allow him to get hit all that much and winning puck battles isn't really all that important because he has a guy like Toews down the middle

It's slightly different for RNH because playing centre you have more responsibilities, but if he can get to 190+ in 2 years or so, then he will be fine weight-wise for the NHL IMO...if he doesn't succeed it won't be due to being light IMO

 

[Street Hawk]

I said it in another thread....Zetterberg was waaaaay skinnier than RNH when he was drafted and now is one of the top 15 players in the league and is extremely hard to knock off the puck.

YOu take the skill level and hockey IQ over size and anyday. Im not saying that any of the other guys ranked in the top 5 are less skilled or have low hockey IQ's, but if you think RNH will be the better player in 5 years you draft him, whether not he is 170lbs and has to be play 2 more years in junior.

I mean you could play devils advocate and instead of the common perception that teams drafting at the top of the draft need help immediately, they could draft Nugent-Hopkins allow him to continue his development in the CHL, save years on his ELC, and allow him to step in to the NHL when they think he will have a the greatest chance to succeed at a very high level, when hopefully that team will have a solid young core group to allow the team to compete at a higher level as well.

Its hard to compare the guys, as they all have great attributes that will allow them to be top players at the next level. Like someone said earlier you got a Pronger, Sakic, Richards, and Staal like players available...all of which are excellent cornerstones for each franchises, its essentially going to come down to need.

It depends on each player's body type. Some guys have the frame to add muscle, others not so much. Take Mason Raymond of the Canucks. Fastest guy on their team. Was drafted out the AJHL at age 20 in 2005, then played in the NCAA for a couple of years before going to the AHL. Right now, he's still 6'0 and 185 lbs. He was drafted at around 165 lbs or something like that. Under 170 lbs. He's now 25 years old and still looks skinny. He'll go into the tough areas, but won't always come away with the puck. But, he'll give the effort.

RNH, just have to evaluate his body type. Can he add muscle and if so, how much.

Any team drafting him, needs to keep him in the WHL until he turns 20 or at least until he's somewhat strong enough to not get pushed around easily in the pros. He can't be thrown into the NHL this Sept. He'll get eaten alive.

 

[McJadeddog]

Keep in mind, Patrick Kane doesn't even weigh in at 180 NOW, and he is already 4 seasons into his NHL career

His style of play doesn't really allow him to get hit all that much and winning puck battles isn't really all that important because he has a guy like Toews down the middle

It's slightly different for RNH because playing centre you have more responsibilities, but if he can get to 190+ in 2 years or so, then he will be fine weight-wise for the NHL IMO...if he doesn't succeed it won't be due to being light IMO

190+ is a distant bell from his current weight.... not saying it can't be done, but if you are 165 lbs when you are 17.75 years old, you're likely just not a "bigger guy".... think about all the athletes you grew up with, which guys were lighter and which were heavier.... then think about how those guys ended up later in life, say their mid-20s.... the heavier guys generally stayed heavier and the lighter guys stayed lighter

gaining 25 pounds of muscle is NOT an easy thing to do .... its not impossible, but its not a for sure thing by any means, even for a professional athlete.... and 25 lbs would still only put RNH at 190 lbs, which would be average at best for a centerman in the NHL

 

[JesusBouillon]

So basically he's ranked lower because he wont step into the NHL right away even though he's most likely going to be the better player? Thats dumb imo. Couturier is supposed to Jordan Staal from what I hear and RNH could very likely be Duchene. Duchene > Staal.

Staal didn't have anywhere near the junior stats of Couturier, Hopkins neither for that matter.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Staal didn't have anywhere near the junior stats of Couturier, Hopkins neither for that matter.

Agree. Coutuerier is more like Eric Staal, than Jordon.

 

[Dosing]

I absolutely hate this statement, because Crosby, Duchene and any other young NHLer I can guarantee is faster than when he was 17 years old. The added mass that most hockey players look for is in the lower body (getting heavier and stronger in the legs will make you faster and give you the added ability to protect the puck).

I said it in another thread....Zetterberg was waaaaay skinnier than RNH when he was drafted and now is one of the top 15 players in the league and is extremely hard to knock off the puck.

YOu take the skill level and hockey IQ over size and anyday. Im not saying that any of the other guys ranked in the top 5 are less skilled or have low hockey IQ's, but if you think RNH will be the better player in 5 years you draft him, whether not he is 170lbs and has to be play 2 more years in junior.

I mean you could play devils advocate and instead of the common perception that teams drafting at the top of the draft need help immediately, they could draft Nugent-Hopkins allow him to continue his development in the CHL, save years on his ELC, and allow him to step in to the NHL when they think he will have a the greatest chance to succeed at a very high level, when hopefully that team will have a solid young core group to allow the team to compete at a higher level as well.

Its hard to compare the guys, as they all have great attributes that will allow them to be top players at the next level. Like someone said earlier you got a Pronger, Sakic, Richards, and Staal like players available...all of which are excellent cornerstones for each franchises, its essentially going to come down to need.

I cant wait to see them all on the ice against eachother at the top prospects game next week.

Agree with this, only problem is most bottom teams wont want to gamble or wait for him to develop.

 

[nanzenkills]

I said it in another thread....Zetterberg was waaaaay skinnier than RNH when he was drafted and now is one of the top 15 players in the league and is extremely hard to knock off the puck.

Well, Zetterberg was skinny and now isnt. Therefore, all players that were skinny arent now. This is an absurd theory.

From what I've been told, Swedes are a bad example to compare to when you talk about putting weight on a player that is skinny when drafted. I've heard that they don't really weight train as juniors, maybe Garl or one of the other Swedish posters can weigh in on this. Either way, there does seem to be a disproportionate number of Swedish prospects in addition to Zetterberg (Forsberg, Kronwall, Jarnkrok, etc.) that were really skinny when drafted and then put a lot of weight on afterwards.

Does RNH do weight training right now? If he does, I'd imagine that he'll have a lot more trouble putting on weight than someone who doesn't.

 

[zeus3007*]

Not sure what types of inside opinions on Larsson teams like NJ, EDM, NYI but Ottawa's got a close relationship with the person most involved with Larsson's development right now, and he's responsible for 3 of our top 4 prospects in addition to Karlsson. If Larsson's available wherever Ottawa picks, they'll take him.

If Larsson is available when Ottawa picks, then he has fallen drastically and it is a steal. I don't expect him to make it past New Jersey. I sadly don't think the Oilers pick him (they don't like using first rounders on d-men).

 

[CandiedBacon]

Does the name Alexander Burmistrov ring a bell. On draft day he weighed 150 pounds. He came into the NHL this year at 175

 

[Z-Diddy]

If Larsson is available when Ottawa picks, then he has fallen drastically and it is a steal. I don't expect him to make it past New Jersey. I sadly don't think the Oilers pick him (they don't like using first rounders on d-men).

Plante is an exception? The rest is right on point, the Devils practically have the name bar stitched on

 

[SDig14]

Plante is an exception? The rest is right on point, the Devils practically have the name bar stitched on

Plante was a very big exception, not to mention we ended up having 3 picks in the first round that year, so taking a d-man was a little easier to do at that point

However, it seems like our scouting staff does shy away from taking d-men in the first round, and Stu Mac and company have never done it since he took over in 2007 (Plante was taken by our previous staff in 2006 IIRC)

 

[hawksfan50]

Well many of us the east get to see RNH for the 1st time in the Top Prospects Game on wednesday night...Lokking forawrd to the viewing to see if thehype is merited --or not...true it is only 1 game--if you saw Pat Kane's Top Prospect Game --he was invisible -yet he tore up the OHLthat year..So any 1 game could be a stinker and ive a distorted view. Nevertheless even though kane did not "shine" in his TP game,he wasn't manhandled /pushed around...IF some guys not on RNH's team in the game decide to get physical with him-thatv could tellus a lot --for if he can't handle it well as a Jr. among his peers,howmuch more so will NHL'ers shove him around? So we must look for his response to any of that kind of treatment...Secondly --how's his checking? True Kane never cheked in jrs.and that did not stop him going #1 overall-but Kane had 145 pts his draft year (62 of that goals)in the reg. season of which he played ONLY 58 games --RNH has only 13 goals and 56pts in 43 GP .whl plays 72 games so Red Deer (46GP) has only 26games remaining in the reg. season...so maybe 21 goals and 69 assists = 90pts for RNH this season ..

SO comparing 2 small skill guys in their draft season (reg. season)


KANE 145 pts in 58GP;RNH projects to 90 pts in 69GP (he missed 3 games so far)

Therefore there is a vast differential in talent level here in favour of Kane -so the risk of another smaller "slight" kid who also is way behind Kane in talent/production-wise for Jrs. is even greater with RNH ...to make up for it he had better be "great" defensively but even at that the centre position is harder defensively than winger-so if he is only average there and the bulk of his talent allegdly goes for his offense ,then that might not be good enough when projecting as a pro centre.
Also --as I stated-IF he cannot shine at the TP game because his opponents push him around-that would be a bad sign that would scream AVOID...


True -it is only 1 game and we could get a false read on him-but IF we see him get pushed around,if we see no grater impact from him offensively ttan a dozen others in the game,if we see innefective defense from him---all these could be constued as flaws and red flags..SO he has a lot to "show" us ..Willhe pass or fail? That is the beauty of the Top Prospects Game .. A bad game is not supposed to hurt a prospect butit could created doubts; a good game can convince and turn heads.

This is why seeing RNH for my fist time willbe fascinating. A top talent or mere hype? Let's view him and comment then. The kid has a lot of prssure on him.Let's also see how he handles it and his skeptical doubters. SHOW ME KID!

 

[Robert604strom]

I really think its just the size difference. Everywhere i look RNH is knocked cause of his weight. Dont think it will be an issue since guys grow intil they are 21,and once your in your 20s your testrone and your Hgh levels go up.

 

[Street Hawk]

Does the name Alexander Burmistrov ring a bell. On draft day he weighed 150 pounds. He came into the NHL this year at 175

Each player's body type is different. Also, Alex only has 15 points in 47 games, so maybe it was better for him to have returned to junior.

Some guys can add the muscle quicker than others. Just depends on their body type. A skinny guy will take longer to pack on the muscle. RNH looks skinny, like Mason Raymond type skinny. Even at 25, Raymond seems skinny. Just the way his body type is.