What made the 2007-08 Red Wings so good?

[c9777666]

it was essentially the same team from the year before minus Bertuzzi/Schneider and Rafalski coming in.

They got off to a blistering start ala the 2001-02 team despite a relatively quiet offseason compared to the famous Hull/Hasek/Robitaille summer.

Was it simply Datsyuk and Zetterberg hitting their peak at the right time? Motivation from the ANA WCF loss?

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[Sentinel]

Everybody being healthy for a change.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Everything. Players peaking/hitting their prime, health, Babcock's system at its finest, a great combination of skill, 2-way play, grit, and role players. They were machine like and seemingly had the puck all game long. It's hard to lose when you outshoot opponents by double digits all season long.

 

[Sticks and Pucks]

Well the Red Wings from the previous two seasons were considered favourites to win too. They just happened to get the job done this particular year. Of note, they won the Cup without playing a single team that won their division in the regular season so I suppose you can say they had "easier" opponents than the year before.

It's just like how the Red Wings couldn't win the Cup in '96 with that stacked team and then won the following season with a "worse" team.

 

[overg]

Well the Red Wings from the previous two seasons were considered favourites to win too. They just happened to get the job done this particular year. Of note, they won the Cup without playing a single team that won their division in the regular season so I suppose you can say they had "easier" opponents than the year before.

It's just like how the Red Wings couldn't win the Cup in '96 with that stacked team and then won the following season with a "worse" team.

I wished I'd saved it, but there was a post a couple of years ago that ranked some advanced possession stat for a bunch of teams in NHL history during crunch time (I can't remember exactly how the poster defined that, but it was basically throwing out situations where the game was already well in hand for one team or the other). And the 2008 Wings were way, way, way up there in the rankings. Like, "all time great" up there.

Now, how *that* particular line-up was able to accomplish that feat is something I've never quite figured out. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Lidstrom were all still in their prime, but the rest of the team was nowhere close to being stacked. But somehow they came together to absolutely dominate the control of games.

 

[Sadekuuro]

They also had a chip on their shoulder after the way the '07 season ended.

 

[quoipourquoi]

it was essentially the same team from the year before minus Bertuzzi/Schneider and Rafalski coming in.

The benefit of their best competition in the conference panicking and bringing in Bertuzzi and Schneider to replace Niedermayer and Selanne and then having to trade away their #1 center for 37-year-old Doug Weight because they ran out of cap space when their retired players came back and they couldn’t offload their $12 million mistakes until the Summer.

 

[Johnny Engine]

That was also the season that Franzen started really scoring. Particularly later on, ramping up into the playoffs - he scored at a 48 goal pace after the all star break.

 

[JackSlater]

I think that people mostly explained it already. There was a synergy between the players and the system that produced great results. Part of this is that the pieces were quite complementary though the team had the versatility to successfully mix up the lines sometimes. I also do think that the distaste from the 2007 Western finals motivated the team, though honestly seeing Anaheim, which was always a bad matchup for Detroit in that time frame, significantly weakened was a big help. Basically: three elite players, good depth of role players, role players who complemented each other and the top players, a good system and players who suited that system.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

I know at least in the playoffs, Chris Osgood coming to their rescue in game 4 of the 1st round vs the Preds, and playing lights out the rest of the way.

I remember being at that game and being beyond glad that a change was finally being done when it was so badly needed at the time.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Some of these have been touched upon in this thread, but here's my take:

-Their play in Babcock's systems just seemed to work like a well oiled machine
-Their best players were at the beginning of their peak (Datsyuk and Zetterberg) or well within it (Rafalski and Lidstrom).
-A lot of their young guys made big strides over the year before (Hudler, Filppula and especially Franzen and Kronwall)
-They had a HUGE "window" open with so many guys on contracts with AAV's much less than what they were contributing (IE Zetterberg on a bridge deal with a cap hit of $2.65M, guys like Kronwall, Cleary, Samuelsson, Filppula, Hudler, Franzen, Osgood all making near or well under $1M)
-Franzen got absolutely white hot to end the year (12G, 6A in 56 games from the start of the season until the end of February. 15G, 5A in 16 games for March and April.
-The swapping of Schneider for Rafalski and the addition of Stuart gave them arguably the best top 4 on D (Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart) they've had since 96-97. Stuart complimented him so well that Kronwall ended up really turning it on during the playoffs.
-They were a really deep team. Aside from Datsyuk and Zetterberg, they had 8 other forwards that could've arguably been top 6 guys on a lot of other teams at that time. They were also solid down the middle with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula and Draper at C. Some injuries allowed them to bring up Darren Helm at the end of the season and he ends up becoming a regular on the 4th line in the playoffs. Once Stuart was brought in, they had a rotation of Lilja, Chelios and Lebda for the 3rd pair, and Meech, Quincey and Ericsson ready to step in if needed.
-The additions of Drake, Downey and a healthy (for the regular season) Kopecky, and then eventually McCarty, Stuart and Helm made a team that had a reputation of being super soft the past couple seasons, a much tougher and more physical team. I think I lost count of how many times Dallas Drake gave up any regard for his 39YO body to absolutely destroy Stephane Robidas and a few other players in that WCF against Dallas.
-Chris Osgood, who had kind of been written off as an oft-injured back up goalie going into that season, found a fountain a youth that offseason. He played great during the regular season and mostly stayed healthy playing a #1B to Hasek and then was even better when he took over for Hasek in the playoffs.

I also do think that the distaste from the 2007 Western finals motivated the team, though honestly seeing Anaheim, which was always a bad matchup for Detroit in that time frame, significantly weakened was a big help.

I disagree that the Ducks were a "bad matchup" for the Wings at that time. It took the Ducks 6 games in 2007 to eliminate a Wings team that had no Schneider or Kronwall, with 45YO Chelios playing as #2D, Lilja and Lebda playing 20 minutes a game and 21YO Kyle Quincey dressing just to take a small handful of sheltered shifts every game. They then took the Wings to 7 games in 2009, but the Wings had no Lilja, Rafalski was out for games 1-5, with a rookie Jonathan Ericsson in the top 4 and a near crypt-keeper level Chelios dressing for all but 1 game. They also didn't have one of their best FO and PK guys in Kris Draper for all but 1 game.

I'd have my money on a healthy 2008 Red Wings stomping the 2007 or 2008 Ducks. They would've needed Pronger and Niedermayer to team up to slam some more heads into the glass in hopes of taking guys out, or get Brad May to sucker punch Lidstrom like he did to Johnsson to get past them.

 

[Michael Farkas]

This 08 team was an absolute wagon...best team I've seen since the big sleep...and I say that even with Osgood in net, who doesn't move the needle, of course...but the skaters and the coaching, that team was a near-impossible out...

 

[GMR]

Although shots on goal aren't everything, that team had an impressive shots for vs. shots against average throughout the season. They always had the puck and dictated the play.

The way the 2007 playoffs worked out was a benefit. They actually won a few playoff rounds (for the first time since 2002) and the young guys got a taste of playoff experience. By the time 2008 rolled around, Franzen, Hudler, Filppula, and Kronwall were ready to become key contributors to the lineup.

 

[sr edler]

it was essentially the same team from the year before minus Bertuzzi/Schneider and Rafalski coming in.

 

[JackSlater]

I disagree that the Ducks were a "bad matchup" for the Wings at that time. It took the Ducks 6 games in 2007 to eliminate a Wings team that had no Schneider or Kronwall, with 45YO Chelios playing as #2D, Lilja and Lebda playing 20 minutes a game and 21YO Kyle Quincey dressing just to take a small handful of sheltered shifts every game. They then took the Wings to 7 games in 2009, but the Wings had no Lilja, Rafalski was out for games 1-5, with a rookie Jonathan Ericsson in the top 4 and a near crypt-keeper level Chelios dressing for all but 1 game. They also didn't have one of their best FO and PK guys in Kris Draper for all but 1 game.

I'd have my money on a healthy 2008 Red Wings stomping the 2007 or 2008 Ducks. They would've needed Pronger and Niedermayer to team up to slam some more heads into the glass in hopes of taking guys out, or get Brad May to sucker punch Lidstrom like he did to Johnsson to get past them.

Seems like revision to suggest that Anaheim was not a bad matchup for Detroit at the time. Over that span (2007 to 2009 being what I am referring to) Detroit held a slight lead in regular season matchups 7-5 and Anaheim had the slight lead in the post season at 7-6. I know all about the issues in 2007 and I didn't like the way the series was handled, but that was the best performance any team put on against Detroit in that span of time, and honestly the 2009 Anaheim team, though clearly weaker than the 2007 team, was probably the second best performance in that span. Just from watching you could see that Anaheim's style was perhaps a bit heavy for Detroit. Having two elite defencemen to split up for Datsyuk and Zetterberg was also a difficulty.

I do think that 2008 Detroit is the best team out of any Detroit or Anaheim team in that span, but I don't see how Anaheim couldn't be regarded as a bad matchup for Detroit.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I disagree that the Ducks were a "bad matchup" for the Wings at that time. It took the Ducks 6 games in 2007 to eliminate a Wings team that had no Schneider or Kronwall

Ducks were missing their top-line Left Wing, Chris Kunitz. Teams miss players sometimes; it’s up to their depth to overcome it.

Obviously the Ducks were a bad matchup. Chris Pronger was a bad matchup.

 

[GMR]

Ducks were missing their top-line Left Wing, Chris Kunitz. Teams miss players sometimes; it’s up to their depth to overcome it.

Obviously the Ducks were a bad matchup. Chris Pronger was a bad matchup.

Giguere's oversized equipment were a bad matchup. Detroit probably doesn't win in 2009 if Giguere was still any good and was their goalie. Hiller was a better matchup for the Wings. Then again, Anaheim was lucky in 2009 that the series went 7 games. They had a triple OT win where they were soundly out chanced and that famous "intent to blow" call where Hossa's goal with the goalie pulled was disallowed in game 3. Even game 7 came down to the wire. It shouldn't have been a close series.

 

[HisIceness]

2 things I remember about that team

1. Their top 3 lines were ridiculously good.

2. They would get a lead, sometimes early, and then basically grind their way to victory.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

They outshot opponents by an average of 11 per game during the regular season and 13 per game in the postseason. I don't think people quite appreciate or understand how ridiculous those numbers are. The phrase "puck possession" gained popularity because of those Detroit teams.

As with most great teams, it started with their best players. They had two 90+ pt, Selke finalist centers and a top 5 defenseman of all time. Babcock could control matchups. He could play Datsyuk/Zetterberg together against your top line if he had last change or he could put them on their own lines and not lose a minute of sleep. I'd argue that all three of them were Top 10 players league wide that year. That's a good starting point as to why Detroit was so good.

Then the depth was there. You had specialists: Draper was dominant in the dot, Holmstrom and Franzen were among the best net front guys. You had a mixture of skill and grit throughout the lineup. The postseason 4th line was a microcosm of that: Hudler-Helm-McCarty. Skill, speed, and toughness.

And it just all came together and worked. They completely bought into Babcock's system and rightfully so. That was Detroit's 4th Cup team of that whole era, but none of them were quite like that 08 group. We keep saying machine like, but that's really the only way to describe it.

And yes, Anaheim was a great foe during those few years.

 

[Big Phil]

A well oiled machine. About as good of one in recent memory in the NHL. I know there are some on here who like the 2009 version even better than the 2008 version but not me. There were cracks in the armour in 2009 where as in 2008 I didn't see them. Look at the Cup final. The young Pens show up and to be quite honest this was a series that going into it you might have Detroit favoured but no one knew how the Pens would respond and they had rolled through the playoffs up until now.

But in Games 1 and 2 they could honestly barely touch the puck. No kidding. Crosby, Malkin, Hossa, Gonchar and others...........and the Red Wings barely let them have a scoring chance. Sure Osgood had shutouts in both games but honestly, so could I in that situation. This is what I mean by "well oiled machine".

Babcock was able to do that with his teams when they bought into his system. Team Canada 2010 had some errors and to be honest may have been better suited to play the style they played eventually and that was full press offense. But the 2014 Olympic team sort of bought into Babcock's system. Maybe it was the open ice that forced them to do this more but this was a team that had a 1-0 lead that seemed like a 5-0 lead. They were just in control of things so much. A loose puck or a juicy rebound and somehow there was always a Canadian player there to pick it up and transition the other way. I liken the 2008 Red Wings to this sort of style. Very much errorless-type of hockey.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

I hate to use the term keep away but the pretty much did just that. They held onto the puck and didn't give it away. I remember my boss at the time ( whos wife was a Flyers fan) asking me if the Flyers (who were in the ECF) had any shot at the cup. I remember telling him Detroit will dominate anyone, I remember watching the first 2 WCF games vs Dallas and they just dominated the possession like nothing I had ever seen. The fact that the Dallas and Pittsburgh series got to 6 games was a surprise in itself.

The worst part was those teams should have won 3 in a row. If they beat the Ducks in 07 the definitely beat Ottawa, and I still say that the 2nd Talbot goal for the Pens in Game 7 in 09 was offside. That game goes to ot they win the cup. At the same tie they were the last of the late 90s-00s old guard in the NHL.

 

[tony d]

Hard to say, just that everything clicked for them that spring. Remember they went on a lengthy losing streak that year as well.

 

[Terry Yake]

wait, wings fans are now blaming giguere's pads for losing in 07? i thought that was the excuse for losing in 03

the 07 wings were a damn good team but simply put, no one was beating the 07 ducks that season. the wings gave them a hell of a fight but the better team won. as for 09, that series still hurts. that ducks team got hot at the perfect time and i still think they would have advanced to the SCF if they had gotten past the wings

 

[GMR]

Hard to say, just that everything clicked for them that spring. Remember they went on a lengthy losing streak that year as well.

The toughest matchup for that team was in the first round. They won the first two games against Nashville, but lost the next two games. Babcock decided to bench Dominik Hasek of all people. What is easily forgotten now is that Osgood made the ASG in 2008 and largely outplayed Hasek in the regular season. Teams that bench their goalie in the playoffs normally don't go far. In game 5, the Predators scored an empty netter with the goalie pulled to tie the game. Most Wings fans thought this team was headed for a loss in the OT (around that time they never won overtime playoff games, especially at home). Next thing you know, Franzen scores early in the OT after Nasvhille's defense has a breakdown. In game 6, Lidstrom breaks a 0-0 tie with a center ice blast against Dan Ellis (ala his center ice goal against Cloutier). They don't look back the rest of the playoffs, winning 9 in a row against Nashville, Colorado, and Dallas, before slipping up in that Dallas series to win in six games. Pittsburgh had a great playoff up to that point, but I thought they were in big trouble against the Wings.

I'm still upset, though, that Detroit couldn't clinch it in 5 games. That Talbot goal in game 5 with the goalie pulled still bothers many Wings fans, despite winning the Cup in the following game. The three overtimes in game 5 is about the loudest I've ever screamed during a game.

I also believe Franzen would have given Zetterberg a run for the Conn Smythe if he didn't get hurt in the Dallas series. He ended the playoffs with 13 goals in 16 games. Effectively missed an entire series.

 

[GMR]

wait, wings fans are now blaming giguere's pads for losing in 07? i thought that was the excuse for losing in 03

the 07 wings were a damn good team but simply put, no one was beating the 07 ducks that season. the wings gave them a hell of a fight but the better team won. as for 09, that series still hurts. that ducks team got hot at the perfect time and i still think they would have advanced to the SCF if they had gotten past the wings

No one? If that puck doesn't bounce up Lidstrom's stick into the net when Anaheim had the goalie pulled in game 5, Detroit wins that series. That Ducks team was great, but they were absolutely on the ropes at that point. I knew the Wings weren't winning game 6 in Anaheim after that (I also knew they wouldn't win in OT). Lilja's gaffe was almost inevitable.