AchtzehnBaby
Global Matador
He was so smooth and confident. We never got to see his absolute potential save for little more than one season.
that acceleration.... wow
He was so smooth and confident. We never got to see his absolute potential save for little more than one season.
I doubt very much that Norris will ever reach either Chara or Spezza's status, though Balcers, Tierney, DeMelo and a 2nd probably makes up the difference even if I'd much prefer quality over quantity.
All that said, with our own pick being so high we can get away with quantity vice quality for the 2nd "piece(s)".
He was so smooth and confident. We never got to see his absolute potential save for little more than one season.
But if their pick lands #1 and we get Lafreniere, it'll easily rival the Yashin for Spezza/Chara deal.
What could have been had Matt Cooke not sliced him open
To the bold, they did trade for Duchene in November 2017 but then on December 1st (my feeling is that) the quote below changed everything.They traded for Duchene in November of 2017 and offered Karlsson an 8 year contract in the summer of 2018 I dont see how your definition could possibly have been the plan. People are giving management way too much credit. Trading Hoffman for negative value to appease Karlsson in the summer of 2018 also doubles down on them trying to re-sign him. Youre dealing in absolute hypotheticals based on your opinion and not using the actual facts of the situation. The entire situation showed absolutely no plan no direction until they were forced into one. The asset management that occured from trade deadline 2017 to the trade deadline in 2019 was beyond atrocious. They did not mean to do the rebuild it happened because no one wanted to re-sign here because of toxic ownership and cowardly management.
Its ok to be excited about the rebuild, I am, I love the Ottawa Senators however I am not going to casually forget what happened here. The team did a full rebuild while they traded boat loads of high end assets in their prime. Its an unprecedented situation in the NHL. Id hope after 3 straight bottom 2 finishes and trading two franchise players before their 27th birthdays along with a glutony of other valuable assets that the team has alot to look forward to.
Bottom line is as bad as Detroit was last year we've been through way worse. Sens fans deserve the first pick in this draft.
2011/12/13 Karlsson was just amazing and you knew you were witnessing something special.What could have been had Matt Cooke not sliced him open
Anyone in the organization who thought EK would take a hometown discount for Eugene after Melnyk screwed over Alfie is a moron and should have been fired on the spot.To the bold, they did trade for Duchene in November 2017 but then on December 1st (my feeling is that) the quote below changed everything.
“When I go to market, I’m going to get what I’m worth, and it’s going to be no less, no matter where I’m going,” Karlsson told the Ottawa Sun on Thursday.
That’s a strong indication of how Karlsson plans to approach what could be his final opportunity to land a monster long-term contract. The two-time Norris Trophy winner may enjoy playing in Ottawa, but he’s looking to get paid. And for a team in a smaller market that typically doesn’t keep up with the big spenders, it’s fair to wonder what it means for the future.
Erik Karlsson says he wants ‘market value’ on his next contract. How much is that? - SBNation.com
I think the bold underline text really shook a lot of people in the organization. This was the captain of your team talking, the guy who was supposed to lead your team for years to come and he had just come off a huge Stanley Cup playoff in the spring of 2017. I believe that Karlsson "walked back" a lot of that comment but at that point the damage was done and by January the team had made their decision. Everything that happened after that was fallout (i.e. Hoffman trade, Duchene trade, Stone trade) and just bad management/PR.
That said, this has been discussed ad nauseum and I'm quite confident in my interpretation of how things went down and given all of the crazy that happened in the months leading up to the trade, Dorion did quite well for the team, lucky or otherwise.
2011 Karlsson was just amazing and you knew you were witnessing something special.
Is Lafreniere guaranteed to be better than Chara or Spezza? Even if he is, is he enough so to make up the difference between Norris et al vs Spezza/Chara? Don't get me wrong, he's a great prospect, but Spezza was too, and Chara is going to be a HOF dman the second he retires.
I think between our top 2 picks, we might end up with as big of an impact the Yashin trade. But, I wouldn't trade either our pick or SJs for Norris, Tierney, DeMelo, Balcers and a 2nd, at least not unless we lose on lottery day and end up in the 5 slot.
At that point were there any superstars in the league taking "hometown discounts"? If so, who?Anyone in the organization who thought EK would take a hometown discount for Eugene after Melnyk screwed over Alfie is a moron and should have been fired on the spot.
At that point were there any superstars in the league taking "hometown discounts"? If so, who?
Occassionally players will take less to help an organization gain competitive advantage. (Especially if they are up against the cap.)At that point were there any superstars in the league taking "hometown discounts"? If so, who?
Why vilify one guy who answered a question because Drew Doughty decided to be a poop disturber?
Yup.Doesn't Tampa Bay have a couple?
Yup.
Team against the cap with ownership doing everything to win.
To line Eugene's pockets...no chance.
I see players wanting to help their team's cap situation (as mentioned Tampa) when your team is committed to spending and winning, but when you are a team barely over the floor with so much cap space, why would a player be expected to take a hometown discount?Yup.
Team against the cap with ownership doing everything to win.
To line Eugene's pockets...no chance.
Sidney Crosby (best player in the world) has taken one (a huge one actually) his entire career. Does that mean others have to? NoAt that point were there any superstars in the league taking "hometown discounts"? If so, who?
Why vilify one guy who answered a question because Drew Doughty decided to be a poop disturber?
Well, they also have a very positive tax situation in Florida.
I find it amusing that the outrage of what it means in terms of the cap only arose once Toronto ran into some trouble.
All of a sudden it's a "league-wide issue".
Matthews, Marner and Nylander...oh wait.Agreed, much easier to accept a hometown discount in the US market less affected by taxes.
Making 9 mil in Tampa Bay vs Montreal/Ottawa/Toronto is not at all the same. Can't remember the last time a star player in a Canadian market took a hometown discount tbh
Matthews, Marner and Nylander...oh wait.
Honestly Nylander's production definitely makes it appear like a discount lol
Ok well if management made a deal like the Duchene deal having no idea that Karlsson's position to want market value was going to impact the entire organizational plan. Then they deserve just as much critisizm, overall my point is that this was a massive blunder that has worked out for the organization purely by luck. There is no way based on the organizations actions that they had a sound and solid plan to rebuild no matter what way people try and spin it. Its one massive mistake or its another either way both visions didnt line up.To the bold, they did trade for Duchene in November 2017 but then on December 1st (my feeling is that) the quote below changed everything.
“When I go to market, I’m going to get what I’m worth, and it’s going to be no less, no matter where I’m going,” Karlsson told the Ottawa Sun on Thursday.
That’s a strong indication of how Karlsson plans to approach what could be his final opportunity to land a monster long-term contract. The two-time Norris Trophy winner may enjoy playing in Ottawa, but he’s looking to get paid. And for a team in a smaller market that typically doesn’t keep up with the big spenders, it’s fair to wonder what it means for the future.
Erik Karlsson says he wants ‘market value’ on his next contract. How much is that? - SBNation.com
I think the bold underline text really shook a lot of people in the organization. This was the captain of your team talking, the guy who was supposed to lead your team for years to come and he had just come off a huge Stanley Cup playoff in the spring of 2017. I believe that Karlsson "walked back" a lot of that comment but at that point the damage was done and by January the team had made their decision. Everything that happened after that was fallout (i.e. Hoffman trade, Duchene trade, Stone trade) and just bad management/PR.
That said, this has been discussed ad nauseum and I'm quite confident in my interpretation of how things went down and, given all of the crazy that happened in the months leading up to the trade, Dorion did quite well for the team, lucky or otherwise.
2011/12/13 Karlsson was just amazing and you knew you were witnessing something special.
For three quarter of one season, the previous season looked like the worst contract in the league. He also had the most dispicable playoff performance I can remember in recent history. Id want nothing to do with him at 7 million a year. TBH i really wouldnt want anyting to do with him at all. He has loads of skill and talent but he has shown he is not a competitor. Even his AHL playoff numbers are well below his AHL regular season numbers.
Maybe he was turning the corner and becoming a more mature version of himself on the ice?For three quarter of one season, the previous season looked like the worst contract in the league. He also had the most dispicable playoff performance I can remember in recent history. Id want nothing to do with him at 7 million a year. TBH i really wouldnt want anyting to do with him at all. He has loads of skill and talent but he has shown he is not a competitor. Even his AHL playoff numbers are well below his AHL regular season numbers.
Generally I agree Bert but I'm not spinning anything. It was one blunder after another and I highlighted that in my posts. I'm not trying to make excuses for the management team and there is plenty of blame to go around.Ok well if management made a deal like the Duchene deal having no idea that Karlsson's position to want market value was going to impact the entire organizational plan. Then they deserve just as much critisizm, overall my point is that this was a massive blunder that has worked out for the organization purely by luck. There is no way based on the organizations actions that they had a sound and solid plan to rebuild no matter what way people try and spin it. Its one massive mistake or its another either way both visions didnt line up.
Hossa didnt shy away from contact he engaged, polar opposites. I actually cant think of two players that are more different in my opinion. I am talking about visually watching him give up against boston, it was almost unbelievable.Funny part is because he held out part of that season, his cap hit for that year was actually over 10 mil, and for the following years, it's discounted by over 500k a year.
Personally, I write off any season where a player misses training camp. As for his playoff performance, AHL included, Hossa used to get criticized for his playoffs, he's still a young kid, time will tell, but I agree, I don't think he'll ever be the clutch gritty playoff warrior if that's what you're getting at.
Fair enough, and agreed you need luck to be good. Hopefully this organizations luck has turned, ultimately it needs new ownership to get to the next level. If the sens end up picking 5 and 6 but get commited ownership ill gladly take that over 1, 2 and have Melnyk at the helm.Generally I agree Bert but I'm not spinning anything. It was one blunder after another and I highlighted that in my posts. I'm not trying to make excuses for the management team and there is plenty of blame to go around.
My point is that there was a very clear series of actions that led to the whole Karlsson situation and that Dorion did well to get what he did given the mess that him and others had created. The top 3 pick was just blind luck. As I said in a previous post, sometimes you gotta to be lucky to be good.