Speculation: What is the Red Wings Firesale Going To Look Like?

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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Frans Nielsen is immovable. Even at 50% nobody wants to hold on to his declining play for that much term remaining AND pay something to acquire him.

Coming off a 33 point year and a 3 year decline at 34, he looks to be 3/4C at this point. Nobody will sign up for 4 more years at $2.6 mil
6 points in 10 games (including tonight), with crap wingers, on a crappy team w/5 ROOKIE's on D for 1st 6 games will make any team look bad...we are bad, but not as bad as we look the 1st 9 games so far.
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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We can all see the writing on the wall; the Red Wings have no choice but to tank this year. After an abysmal start to the season, losing 8 of 9, having an old, sluggish, and injury-ridden defense, and having two equally bad sieves in net, what else can these Wings accomplish?

There are quite a few moves that Kenny Holland has done to put himself in a good spot to retire or move on, since his contract expires at the end of this season (Ironically, the same time Steve Yzerman, who is under contract with the Lightning, also is free. Coincidence?). Let's step back and take a look at the moves that KH has pulled together.

  1. Locked Up Mantha and Larkin: Anthony Mantha and Dylan Larkin are arguably the top players for the Wings in terms of pedigree. 1st Round picks in consecutive drafts, The U of M standout and the Val-d'Or Foreurs legend lived up to their perspective roles quickly, as many see Larkin, and in a lesser light, Mantha, as the franchise faces of the Wings. Larkin is locked up in a 5-year, $6,100,000-a year deal, while Mantha is in a 2-year, $3,300,000-per year deal until the 2020-21 season, at which he becomes a free agent.
  2. Fresh Bait? The curious moves in the off-season to re-sign Mike Green, and to sign free-agents Thomas Vanek and Jonathan Bernier, puzzled many Red Wing fans. These men, however, have been signed to relatively easy contracts, and Bernier is a piece many teams would like to have for a playoff-run. The addition of Jason De La Rose just a week ago off of Montreal's waivers is yet another piece in what could result in a trade.
These two moves point to some pretty exciting things, come trade deadline.

  • Mantha has no no-trade clause, and it has been reported that he is unhappy with coach Jeff Blashill. Mantha is a 2nd line winger who would be happy to be placed on a team that gives him time on the ice.
  • Alt. Captain Frans Nielsen has waived his no-trade clause down to a 10 team no-trade list. This makes it easier for him to be dealt. A 3rd line winger, Nielsen has lost a step or two, and a team would be happy to give him a spot as a depth or a healthy scratch. The issue lies with his contract, one of the albatrosses of the league at $5,250,000-a year until he is 38.
  • Players Nick Jensen, a depth defenseman, and Jonathan Ericsson, an old ace, have either waived their clauses or updated them (19 teams cannot offer anything for Ericsson).
Detroit, looking to finish last in the standings and hopefully last in the lottery, is hoping to have an eventful season when it comes to the trade block.
Wrong...Mantha is a RFA after 2021, not UFA, per capfriendly.

Nielsen...6 points in 10 games (including tonight), with crap wingers, on a crappy team w/5 ROOKIE's on D for 1st 6 games will make any team look bad...we are bad, but not as bad as we look the 1st 9 games so far. Not a great contract, but he's holding down a #2C position on a crap team w/crap wingers. He's been our #3c (Shutdown line) his 1st 2 seasons here, so high QoC%, low DZS%.
 

Scintillating10

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We can all see the writing on the wall; the Red Wings have no choice but to tank this year. After an abysmal start to the season, losing 8 of 9, having an old, sluggish, and injury-ridden defense, and having two equally bad sieves in net, what else can these Wings accomplish?

There are quite a few moves that Kenny Holland has done to put himself in a good spot to retire or move on, since his contract expires at the end of this season (Ironically, the same time Steve Yzerman, who is under contract with the Lightning, also is free. Coincidence?). Let's step back and take a look at the moves that KH has pulled together.

  1. Locked Up Mantha and Larkin: Anthony Mantha and Dylan Larkin are arguably the top players for the Wings in terms of pedigree. 1st Round picks in consecutive drafts, The U of M standout and the Val-d'Or Foreurs legend lived up to their perspective roles quickly, as many see Larkin, and in a lesser light, Mantha, as the franchise faces of the Wings. Larkin is locked up in a 5-year, $6,100,000-a year deal, while Mantha is in a 2-year, $3,300,000-per year deal until the 2020-21 season, at which he becomes a free agent.
  2. Fresh Bait? The curious moves in the off-season to re-sign Mike Green, and to sign free-agents Thomas Vanek and Jonathan Bernier, puzzled many Red Wing fans. These men, however, have been signed to relatively easy contracts, and Bernier is a piece many teams would like to have for a playoff-run. The addition of Jason De La Rose just a week ago off of Montreal's waivers is yet another piece in what could result in a trade.
These two moves point to some pretty exciting things, come trade deadline.

  • Mantha has no no-trade clause, and it has been reported that he is unhappy with coach Jeff Blashill. Mantha is a 2nd line winger who would be happy to be placed on a team that gives him time on the ice.
  • Alt. Captain Frans Nielsen has waived his no-trade clause down to a 10 team no-trade list. This makes it easier for him to be dealt. A 3rd line winger, Nielsen has lost a step or two, and a team would be happy to give him a spot as a depth or a healthy scratch. The issue lies with his contract, one of the albatrosses of the league at $5,250,000-a year until he is 38.
  • Players Nick Jensen, a depth defenseman, and Jonathan Ericsson, an old ace, have either waived their clauses or updated them (19 teams cannot offer anything for Ericsson).
Detroit, looking to finish last in the standings and hopefully last in the lottery, is hoping to have an eventful season when it comes to the trade block.
Good position to be in actually. Zadina this year, Hughes next year. I wish in a way Habs were doing this
 

WingsMJN2965

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I low-key wish this years' first-round pick was traded for Trouba, not just for the Jets' sake, but he's also from the Detroit area. It'll be easy for him to sign there, possibly even long-term for the money he's asking for.

I like Trouba and hope to see the Wings grab him if he makes UFA.

... But there's no way he's netting you likely top 5 pick, with a great chance at being top 3.

Would Drai + 2019 2nd for Mantha and Larkin make sense?

Think this is the rare occasion where both teams hang up.

Drai is obviously the best player in the deal, which EDM fans would hesitate to downgrade. Larkin's ceiling seems to just continuously raise, and he's always gonna have more value to Detroit than he will any other team.
 

thadd

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I like Trouba and hope to see the Wings grab him if he makes UFA.

... But there's no way he's netting you likely top 5 pick, with a great chance at being top 3.



Think this is the rare occasion where both teams hang up.

Drai is obviously the best player in the deal, which EDM fans would hesitate to downgrade. Larkin's ceiling seems to just continuously raise, and he's always gonna have more value to Detroit than he will any other team.

You're wrong. Edmonton might do Drai + 1st.
We are eating salary but getting 2 top 6 forwards.
Mantha and Larkin can stay together to make up the bulk of our 2nd line so that we have more overall depth.
 

sabresEH

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They have 26 draft picks coming over the next 3 years, 11 of them are next draft. They have that going for them, add a few more , draft and develop well.
Extra 2nd and 2 extra 5ths this year. The extra 7th is conditional and I doubt they get it. Robbie Russo needs to play 30 NHL games for that.
Trading Nyquist should get them another top 2 round pick.
Vanek should get them an extra 3rd or 4th. Scouts will be happy that’s for sure. And after their last draft they want more picks.
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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You're wrong. Edmonton might do Drai + 1st.
We are eating salary but getting 2 top 6 forwards.
Mantha and Larkin can stay together to make up the bulk of our 2nd line so that we have more overall depth.
No deal from DET... Offer isn't too far off, but Larkin is gonna be great, Mantha should be good.
 

Oddbob

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Tradable:
Mike Green (Washington)
Darren Helm (Toronto)
Andreas Athanasiou (Pittsburgh, Edmonton)
Gustav Nyquist (Calgary, Toronto, San Jose)
Tyler Bertuzzi*
Niklas Kronwall*
Jonathan Ericsson (Vancouver)
Evgeny Svechnikov (Carolina)
Anthony Mantha*
Thomas Vanek*
Frans Nielson*
Luke Glendening

Likely untradable trade bait:
Jonathan Bernier
Jimmy Howard
Justin Abdelkader
Trevor Daley

Untouchable unless the RIGHT deal were to happen:
Dylan Larkin
Dennis Cholowski
Michael Rasmussen
Filip Zadina

*Either tradable, untradable or untouchable
(Brackets is the team(s) that could likely be either suitable or a potential destination for the respective player)

But I think they're could help out with three-way trades with other teams for most of their trades in order to get them done. Also might take cap-dump and dumb contracts away from other teams.

I low-key wish this years' first-round pick was traded for Trouba, not just for the Jets' sake, but he's also from the Detroit area. It'll be easy for him to sign there, possibly even long-term for the money he's asking for.

How is Howard untradeable? Final year of his deal, and he is playing very well despite his stats, as he is the only reason we aren't giving up 6 goals a game right now. Retained, he becomes a very good backup or emergency starter, he is more than capable. No worse than Rinne's performance in last years playoff performance, and on a good team I think he fairs nicely.

Daley is a serviceable and decently paid defender who gives depth to any playoff team, or contender. Obviously he looks bad on our team, because we have no really true top 4 guys right now, other than maybe Green. He is simply over exposed right now, which wouldn't happen on a team with actual defensive depth. Next year is the final of a 3 year deal, and I don't even think it would take retention to get a 3rd or 4th for him.
 

TT1

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Nyquist is still pretty good, i think he could take his game to another lvl on a different team. Other than Nyquist i don't see a lot of desirable pieces tho, Detroit shouldn't move Larkin/Mantha, they'd probably be better off holding onto AA too.
 

HawkeyTalkMan

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Jun 23, 2015
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Wrong...Mantha is a RFA after 2021, not UFA, per capfriendly.

Nielsen...6 points in 10 games (including tonight), with crap wingers, on a crappy team w/5 ROOKIE's on D for 1st 6 games will make any team look bad...we are bad, but not as bad as we look the 1st 9 games so far. Not a great contract, but he's holding down a #2C position on a crap team w/crap wingers. He's been our #3c (Shutdown line) his 1st 2 seasons here, so high QoC%, low DZS%.

Stop trying to sell high on Nielsen because " 6 pts in 10 games, bad wingers, yadda yadda"

Nobody is buying it and nobody is taking that contract off Detroit's hands
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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Stop trying to sell high on Nielsen because " 6 pts in 10 games, bad wingers, yadda yadda"

Nobody is buying it and nobody is taking that contract off Detroit's hands
Already stated, "not a great contract". I stand by my post. Whether a team takes Nielsen or not is debatable, ergo HF Boards gets more traffic. Agreed that's it's improbable a team would take the contract.
 

Number 57

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If Steve Y comes in I have high hopes for this team. They have some good prospects coming up and Hughes/Kakko would go a long way.

I see them re-signing Nyquist personally, with Kronwall retiring this summer. Unfortunately, their biggest problem is in goal, with Howard getting older and no real top prospect between the pipes. They also have too much money invested in average players, but that's gonna take care of itself over time...

Zadina - Hughes - Mantha
Rasmussen - Larkin - Nyquist
Bertuzzi - Athanasiou - Berggren
Helm - Veleno - Abdelkader
Svechnikov

Cholowski - Hronek
Hicketts - Sarijarvi
McIsaac - DeKeyser
Sulak

Bernier - UFA ?

They had a really good 2018 draft which definitely sets them up for a bright future.

I have high hopes for a lot of those young D-men
 

Steve Yzerlland

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If Steve Y comes in I have high hopes for this team. They have some good prospects coming up and Hughes/Kakko would go a long way.

I see them re-signing Nyquist personally, with Kronwall retiring this summer. Unfortunately, their biggest problem is in goal, with Howard getting older and no real top prospect between the pipes. They also have too much money invested in average players, but that's gonna take care of itself over time...

Zadina - Hughes - Mantha
Rasmussen - Larkin - Nyquist
Bertuzzi - Athanasiou - Berggren
Helm - Veleno - Abdelkader
Svechnikov

Cholowski - Hronek
Hicketts - Sarijarvi
McIsaac - DeKeyser
Sulak

Bernier - UFA ?

They had a really good 2018 draft which definitely sets them up for a bright future.

I have high hopes for a lot of those young D-men
You forgot Karlsson in free agency :sarcasm:
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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AA beside McDavid would be a good idea though. So much speed they'd have to stop the game after every shift to let the ice freeze. :DD

Hahahaha.. Yeah, you can have AA and see how that works out. Wings fan tried telling you that you don't want to give us Puljujavi for him. But if you insist. AA on a line with McDavid would be a massive waste. It entices you with the potential speed, then you have AA take his customary several shifts off a night and you'll be ready to kill him.
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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If Steve Y comes in I have high hopes for this team. They have some good prospects coming up and Hughes/Kakko would go a long way.

I see them re-signing Nyquist personally, with Kronwall retiring this summer. Unfortunately, their biggest problem is in goal, with Howard getting older and no real top prospect between the pipes. They also have too much money invested in average players, but that's gonna take care of itself over time...

Zadina - Hughes - Mantha
Rasmussen - Larkin - Nyquist
Bertuzzi - Athanasiou - Berggren
Helm - Veleno - Abdelkader
Svechnikov

Cholowski - Hronek
Hicketts - Sarijarvi
McIsaac - DeKeyser
Sulak

Bernier - UFA ?

They had a really good 2018 draft which definitely sets them up for a bright future.

I have high hopes for a lot of those young D-men
-Even if we get Hughes or the #1, he'd likely start at #3c or #2c at best as an 18 yr.old.
-Agreed KH is likely to sign Nyquist, hopefully not for more than $4.9X3yrs.
-AA has already been taken off #2c/#3c duties, he can't handle it, it's just not what his game is predicated on, at all. Preseason was a different animal.
-Ras will be lucky to be higher than 3rd line by 2019, he looks more like an average AHL'er today
-Hicketts=career AHL'er or #6 NHL Dman at best, more like #7/injury call-up.
-Saarijarvi may make 3rd pairing/#6 Dman by 2019, not Top 4.
-McIssac is 2 yrs away & then...see Saarijarvi
-Did you trade Mike Green & Frans Nielsen?
-Hronek=2nd pairing by 2019
-Zadina is likely starting on NHL 3rd line by 2019, he's that far off.
-Berggren is 2 yrs away.
-DDK is in Top 4 w/Mike Green, Cholowski & Hronek.
-Hope they trade Howard & never look back by TDL....Varlamov/Bobrovsky.
-Veleno by 2019, #4c is very probable, possibly #3c.
 

archimet

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-Even if we get Hughes or the #1, he'd likely start at #3c or #2c at best as an 18 yr.old.
-Agreed KH is likely to sign Nyquist, hopefully not for more than $4.9X3yrs.
-AA has already been taken off #2c/#3c duties, he can't handle it, it's just not what his game is predicated on, at all. Preseason was a different animal.
-Ras will be lucky to be higher than 3rd line by 2019, he looks more like an average AHL'er today
-Hicketts=career AHL'er or #6 NHL Dman at best, more like #7/injury call-up.
-Saarijarvi may make 3rd pairing/#6 Dman by 2019, not Top 4.
-McIssac is 2 yrs away & then...see Saarijarvi
-Did you trade Mike Green & Frans Nielsen?
-Hronek=2nd pairing by 2019
-Zadina is likely starting on NHL 3rd line by 2019, he's that far off.
-Berggren is 2 yrs away.
-DDK is in Top 4 w/Mike Green, Cholowski & Hronek.
-Hope they trade Howard & never look back by TDL....Varlamov/Bobrovsky.
-Veleno by 2019, #4c is very probable, possibly #3c.

I don't think the lineup was for 2019-20.... There's no way Detroit is going to be competitive for a couple more years. But the line-up looks pretty good for 2021-22. By then, many of the much-maligned bad contracts will be gone and the many of the prospects and young players will be hitting their stride.
 
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archimet

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I may be in the minority. But this Red Wing fan believes Detroit is positioned pretty well to be competitive again in 2-3 years (i.e. starting in 20-21). A few down years is the price you pay for dominating the league for almost 3 decades: 25 straight years in the playoffs; 4 Stanley Cups; 6 Presidents Trophies, yada-yada-yada...

But, if you're looking for a firesale at the end of the year, you're actually pretty late to the party. It's been going on for a few years already. As soon as they realized the streak was over (i.e Datsyuk went home to be with his family) they started the sale. When you look, you'll see that many assets have already been moved and there are only a few left.

One of the first moves was the Pavel Datsyuk/Jakob Chykrun trade. Detroit traded down from #16 to #20, and picked up an extra second-rounder. They also gained $7.5 million in cap space. At #20 they selected Cholowski. With the extra 2nd-rounder they acquired Filip Hronek. One can also argue that they were able to sign Frans Neilsen and Tomas Vanek with the extra $7.5 million cap space. Nielsen declined relatively quickly, but that was unexpected. He'd been a reliable 50-60 point, 2C for years. He's still a serviceable 3C on a non-playoff team, a good leader, and is a decent penalty-killer. He just earns too much. But who cares? The extra cap-space right now wouldn't fix anything anyway. So, why complain? At the trade deadline, the Wings turned around and traded Tomas Vanek for a 3rd-round pick, plus Dylan McIlrath. McIlrath has been an important player and leader for Grand Rapids (AHL) ever since. Detroit selected Kasper Kotkansalo with the third-round pick they acquired for Vanek. Kotkansalo is a borderline NHL prospect. So, Detroit essentially traded Jakob Chykrun for Chowlowski (maybe #2/#3 upside), Hronek (#3/#4 who can run the PP), Nielsen (3-4C for several years), Kotkansalo (stay-at-home responsible #5/#6 upside), and McIlrath. That's a lot of organizational assets for one player; granted one potentially very good player.

In another deal, Detroit traded Tomas Jurco for a 3rd round pick. That pick turned into Keith Petruzzelli, who is a decent goalie prospect (at least 4-5 years away).

They also traded Brendan Smith for a 2nd and 3rd. The 3rd turned into Zach Gallant (probably won't make NHL). But the 2nd-rounder turned into Jonatan Berggren. Berggren could be a steal and an important cog in the 21-22 Red Wings (top-6 or -9 scoring winger with speed, who is difficult to play against).

They signed Joe Hicketts and Libor Sulak, who were undrafted. Despite all the naysayers, Hicketts is already a solid #6/#7 energy guy that many teams would love on their team. Sulak was surprisingly good in the preseason and during his short stint with the Wings to start the season. He could turn into a solid a #5/#6 with speed, good first pass, and an edge. Still people will complain because they're not #1s. But teams actually need #5s, #6s and #7s. Hicketts and Sulak pretty much fit that bill.

Later they traded Riley Sheahan and a 2018 5th... for a 2018 3rd and Scott Wilson. The 3rd turned into Jesper Eliasson, another decent goalie prospect. Of course, we won't know for at least 3-5 years. Scott Wilson was traded to Buffalo for a 2019 5th rounder. We'll see what comes of that pick.

Then they traded Tomas Tatar at the deadline last year for a 2018 1st, 2019 2nd, and 2021 3rd. They used the 2018 1st to select Joe Veleno. Plus, the 2019 2nd-rounder they picked up originally belonged to the NY Islanders. Not to be overly critical of the Islanders, but my guess is that pick will end up being a top-40 selection. Maybe even a top-35 or -36 pick.

They've also made a couple minor trades: Tom McCollum turned into Otto Kivenmaki; Jakub Kindl turned into Reily Webb. It's unlikely anything will come of either of those trades. But who knows? I read something in The Athletic (I think) about Kivenmaki turning some heads at a recent tournament. But he is tiny.

So, for those looking for a firesale, the firesale has been going on for a couple years now. As with most sales, the shelves are getting a little sparse. They still have Gus Nyquist who will produce a nice return. Howard, Kronwall, Jensen, and maybe Trevor Daley may generate some interest. Daley is an interesting option because he'll have a year left on his contract, which will increase his value like it did with Tatar. But even if they don't trade anybody except Nyquist, the others will be gone soon along with their contracts.

I doubt they Trade Vanek because he doesn't want to move his family any more at the trade deadline... And yes... Ken Holland believes strongly in loyalty. Love it or hate it, it's an important part of the Red Wing culture. It's part of the reason why so many great players came to Detroit over the past couple decades.

Green may be traded at the deadline next year.

A playoff team might have interest in Helm, Glendenning, Abdelkader or Dekeyser as they get closer to the end of their contracts. Until then, they can plug holes in the lineup and provide leadership. Again, who cares about their contracts now? The Wings will miss the playoffs for at least two more seasons. They're not going to need large sums of money to pay any premier free agents for a couple years. If they make a trade, they can dump salary then.

To summarize, after being in the playoffs for 25 consecutive years and not picking in the top 10 for decades, they've missed the playoffs for 2 years. Pavel Datsyuk's return to Russia probably triggered the end of the playoff streak. But his trade also started the rebuild and the firesale. Since that trade, the Wings have been selling assets: Datsyuk/Chykrun, Brendan Smith, Tomas Jurco, Riley Sheahan and Tomas Tatar. In return, they've already acquired likely NHL'ers Dennis Cholowski, Filip Hronek, Jonatan Berggren, and Joe Veleno. Plus, they've drafted a couple other potential NHL'ers from the picks acquired in the trades in Kasper Kotkansalo, Keith Petruzzelli and Jesper Eliasson. The Tatar trade still has two picks to go, including a likely top-40 2019 2nd-rounder and a 2021 3rd rounder. The Scott Wilson trade also produced a 2019 5th. From my perspective, the firesale has already been pretty darn productive.

Also, since the sale started, they've used their 2017 and 2018 1st's and 2nd's to acquire:
* 2017 1st: Michael Rasmussen (likely top-6 forward; needs to grow into his 6'6" frame)
* 2017 2nd: Gustav Lindstrom (upside RH top-4 puck-moving D)
* 2018 1st: Filip Zadina (top-line scoring RW, potential star)
* 2018 2nd: Jared McIssac (upside LH, top-4, puck-moving D, with an edge)

This year, they already have 3 likely top-40 picks and are in the race for the highest-odds for the #1 overall selection. Whatever happens in the lottery, they're likely to pick top 5. With that pick, they will almost certainly select a 1C. This draft is loaded with them. It's a good year to bottom-out. The pick could be Jack Hughes, Kirby Dach, or Dylan Cozens. They could also select Kaapo Kaako, in which case they'd probably eventually move Rasmussen to center (his natural position). In any case, the likely top-5 selection in 2019 will round-out their long-term top-9 and make them formidable in 3 seasons, or so.

They also have their own 2nd rounder this year (likely top-35, maybe 32) and the Islanders 2nd (likely top-40). Depending on who falls this year, it's likely they will select 1 or 2 Ds in the 32-40 range, or perhaps a D and Spencer Night, if he somehow slips to the second round. Plus, they're very likely to trade Nyquist and will get at least a 2nd-rounder... maybe a late first... If they get a late first, they'll be set up for another draft like they had in 2018 (4 picks in the top 36, which yielded Zadina, Veleno, Berggren and McIsaac).

They're also unlikely to make the playoffs next year and will have another lottery pick in the 2020 draft. Green, Daley and Ericksson are all UFAs at the end of next season (19-20) and will bring more picks in 2020, plus free up $12.5 million in cap space. Sulak, Hronek, Saarijarvi, Hicketts, and perhaps one of McIsaac or Lindstrom will be competing to replace them.

If it all works out (which it won't)... even without any trades, UFAs, or the emergence of a surprise late round pick, the 21-22 lineup could already look something like:

Rasmussen, Hughes/Kaako/Dach/Cozens, Zadina
Bertuzzi, Larkin, Mantha
Athanisiou, Veleno, Berggren (talking about speed)
Svechnikov, De La Rose/Ehn/Turgeon, Givani Smith

Cholowski, a trade/UFA/pick
McIsaac, Hronek
Sulak, Lindstrom
Hicketts

With the exception of possible trades or UFA signing for #1D and a goalie, Mantha, Anthanasiou and Sulak will be the oldest at 27 years old.

Also in the mix at D: Saarijaarvi, Regula and Kotkansolo, plus 1 or 2 high 2019 2nd-round picks (maybe 2 of Bjornfot, Ryan Johnson, Kokkanen, Korczak, or someone who settles into the 32-40 range by draft day?). Hakan Andersson also thinks Malte Setkov could be a late bloomer (2017 4th round pick). He's another 6'6" player that may need some time to grow into his body. If Hakan likes him, I like him.

If the Wings get truly lucky, Spencer Night might be in goal. If not, one of Larsson, Eliassson, Petruzzelli, or Van Pottelberghe... all of which have shown some potential... or someone like Taylor Gutthier from the 2019 draft. If not Spencer Night, they will most likely take the trade- or UFA-route for a #1 goalie, until one of the prospects is ready.

That team has:
* Strength down the middle: 1C Hughes/Dach/Cozens; 2C Larkin; 3C Veleno
* 3 scoring lines
* Tons of top-end speed at forward: Larkin, Anthanasiou, Berggren, Veleno, and whichever 1C they draft in 2019 (especially Hughes or Cozens)
* High-end scoring (Zadina, 2019 Pick, Larkin, Mantha, Rasmussen, Berggren, and maybe 2020 first round pick)
* Net-front specialists: Rasmussen, Bertuzzi
* 6-7 solid, puck-moving D
* And one can hope: Spencer Night in goal.

Unfortunately, they may not have a true #1 D. This year's draft doesn't have many elite D prospects.

There will be a couple legacy players close to the end of their contracts to provide continuity to the Red Wing culture: Abdelkader, Dekeyser, Nielsen. The remaining 'bad' contracts, which everyone whines about, will be gone. The cap will continue to grow, so cap-space will not be an issue. Many of the players will still be in their entry-level contracts or have a bridge contract. Some of the stars (as they emerge) will be locked up long-term (Larkin, Mantha, Rasmussen, and maybe Zadina and/or their 2019 first). Dylan Larkin will be captain.

With a trade or two, maybe a solid UFA signing... or maybe an unlikely later-round pick emerges ... and this team becomes a team to be reckoned with again.

For all the whining about Ken Holland and the front-office, the future actually looks bright. They've been crafting the new Red Wings for a few years now. They still need some star-power to compete with the best. But Larkin and Zadina may become stars. They'll probably select another star with their 2019 1st... It may even be Jack Hughes. Plus, they'll almost certainly be a lottery team for the 2020 draft, which may produce another high-end prospect or two.

Then you have Mantha and Rasmussen who are giant kids (6'5" and 6'6"). Some question their progress and hence their upside. But I suspect they may take a little longer than some just to give them time to grow into their frames. It's not unreasonable to expect one or both to approach some sort of star-level. And Jonatan Berggren is my dark-horse to become an Arvidsson or Marchand. Veleno could easily become a high-end player.

I don't know what's going to happen on D. But Cholowski, Hronek and McIsaac seem like good bets to become solid top-4s. I also have a good feeling about Lindstrom; but that may be his name speaking to me more than his upside. Maybe one of them will surprise and become a #1-lite.

The Red Wings have missed the playoffs for 2 years. They'll miss them again this year and almost certainly again next year. They may contend for a playoff spot in 20-21, but not the Cup. But for what it's worth, 21-22 is starting to look pretty darn intriguing to me. Maybe the Wings front-office actually knows what they're doing after all? And then there's the wild card. Will Stevie Y will be the new Red Wings GM in a couple years? If he is, he'll have a ton to work with... similar to Tampa when he took over.
 
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Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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Jun 23, 2018
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I may be in the minority. But this Red Wing fan believes Detroit is positioned pretty well to be competitive again in 2-3 years (i.e. starting in 20-21). A few down years is the price you pay for dominating the league for almost 3 decades: 25 straight years in the playoffs; 4 Stanley Cups; 6 Presidents Trophies, yada-yada-yada...

But, if you're looking for a firesale at the end of the year, you're actually pretty late to the party. It's been going on for a few years already. As soon as they realized the streak was over (i.e Datsyuk went home to be with his family) they started the sale. When you look, you'll see that many assets have already been moved and there are only a few left.

One of the first moves was the Pavel Datsyuk/Jakob Chykrun trade. Detroit traded down from #16 to #20, and picked up an extra second-rounder. They also gained $7.5 million in cap space. At #20 they selected Cholowski. With the extra 2nd-rounder they acquired Filip Hronek. One can also argue that they were able to sign Frans Neilsen and Tomas Vanek with the extra $7.5 million cap space. Nielsen declined relatively quickly, but that was unexpected. He'd been a reliable 50-60 point, 2C for years. He's still a serviceable 3C on a non-playoff team, a good leader, and is a decent penalty-killer. He just earns too much. But who cares? The extra cap-space right now wouldn't fix anything anyway. So, why complain? At the trade deadline, the Wings turned around and traded Tomas Vanek for a 3rd-round pick, plus Dylan McIlrath. McIlrath has been an important player and leader for Grand Rapids (AHL) ever since. Detroit selected Kasper Kotkansalo with the third-round pick they acquired for Vanek. Kotkansalo is a borderline NHL prospect. So, Detroit essentially traded Jakob Chykrun for Chowlowski (maybe #2/#3 upside), Hronek (#3/#4 who can run the PP), Nielsen (3-4C for several years), Kotkansalo (stay-at-home responsible #5/#6 upside), and McIlrath. That's a lot of organizational assets for one player; granted one potentially very good player.

In another deal, Detroit traded Tomas Jurco for a 3rd round pick. That pick turned into Keith Petruzzelli, who is a decent goalie prospect (at least 4-5 years away).

They also traded Brendan Smith for a 2nd and 3rd. The 3rd turned into Zach Gallant (probably won't make NHL). But the 2nd-rounder turned into Jonatan Berggren. Berggren could be a steal and an important cog in the 21-22 Red Wings (top-6 or -9 scoring winger with speed, who is difficult to play against).

They signed Joe Hicketts and Libor Sulak, who were undrafted. Despite all the naysayers, Hicketts is already a solid #6/#7 energy guy that many teams would love on their team. Sulak was surprisingly good in the preseason and during his short stint with the Wings to start the season. He could turn into a solid a #5/#6 with speed, good first pass, and an edge. Still people will complain because they're not #1s. But teams actually need #5s, #6s and #7s. Hicketts and Sulak pretty much fit that bill.

Later they traded Riley Sheahan and a 2018 5th... for a 2018 3rd and Scott Wilson. The 3rd turned into Jesper Eliasson, another decent goalie prospect. Of course, we won't know for at least 3-5 years. Scott Wilson was traded to Buffalo for a 2019 5th rounder. We'll see what comes of that pick.

Then they traded Tomas Tatar at the deadline last year for a 2018 1st, 2019 2nd, and 2021 3rd. They used the 2018 1st to select Joe Veleno. Plus, the 2019 2nd-rounder they picked up originally belonged to the NY Islanders. Not to be overly critical of the Islanders, but my guess is that pick will end up being a top-40 selection. Maybe even a top-35 or -36 pick.

They've also made a couple minor trades: Tom McCollum turned into Otto Kivenmaki; Jakub Kindl turned into Reily Webb. It's unlikely anything will come of either of those trades. But who knows? I read something in The Athletic (I think) about Kivenmaki turning some heads at a recent tournament. But he is tiny.

So, for those looking for a firesale, the firesale has been going on for a couple years now. As with most sales, the shelves are getting a little sparse. They still have Gus Nyquist who will produce a nice return. Howard, Kronwall, Jensen, and maybe Trevor Daley may generate some interest. Daley is an interesting option because he'll have a year left on his contract, which will increase his value like it did with Tatar. But even if they don't trade anybody except Nyquist, the others will be gone soon along with their contracts.

I doubt they Trade Vanek because he doesn't want to move his family any more at the trade deadline... And yes... Ken Holland believes strongly in loyalty. Love it or hate it, it's an important part of the Red Wing culture. It's part of the reason why so many great players came to Detroit over the past couple decades.

Green may be traded at the deadline next year.

A playoff team might have interest in Helm, Glendenning, Abdelkader or Dekeyser as they get closer to the end of their contracts. Until then, they can plug holes in the lineup and provide leadership. Again, who cares about their contracts now? The Wings will miss the playoffs for at least two more seasons. They're not going to need large sums of money to pay any premier free agents for a couple years. If they make a trade, they can dump salary then.

To summarize, after being in the playoffs for 25 consecutive years and not picking in the top 10 for decades, they've missed the playoffs for 2 years. Pavel Datsyuk's return to Russia probably triggered the end of the playoff streak. But his trade also started the rebuild and the firesale. Since that trade, the Wings have been selling assets: Datsyuk/Chykrun, Brendan Smith, Tomas Jurco, Riley Sheahan and Tomas Tatar. In return, they've already acquired likely NHL'ers Dennis Cholowski, Filip Hronek, Jonatan Berggren, and Joe Veleno. Plus, they've drafted a couple other potential NHL'ers from the picks acquired in the trades in Kasper Kotkansalo, Keith Petruzzelli and Jesper Eliasson. The Tatar trade still has two picks to go, including a likely top-40 2019 2nd-rounder and a 2021 3rd rounder. The Scott Wilson trade also produced a 2019 5th. From my perspective, the firesale has already been pretty darn productive.

Also, since the sale started, they've used their 2017 and 2018 1st's and 2nd's to acquire:
* 2017 1st: Michael Rasmussen (likely top-6 forward; needs to grow into his 6'6" frame)
* 2017 2nd: Gustav Lindstrom (upside RH top-4 puck-moving D)
* 2018 1st: Filip Zadina (top-line scoring RW, potential star)
* 2018 2nd: Jared McIssac (upside LH, top-4, puck-moving D, with an edge)

This year, they already have 3 likely top-40 picks and are in the race for the highest-odds for the #1 overall selection. Whatever happens in the lottery, they're likely to pick top 5. With that pick, they will almost certainly select a 1C. This draft is loaded with them. It's a good year to bottom-out. The pick could be Jack Hughes, Kirby Dach, or Dylan Cozens. They could also select Kaapo Kaako, in which case they'd probably eventually move Rasmussen to center (his natural position). In any case, the likely top-5 selection in 2019 will round-out their long-term top-9 and make them formidable in 3 seasons, or so.

They also have their own 2nd rounder this year (likely top-35, maybe 32) and the Islanders 2nd (likely top-40). Depending on who falls this year, it's likely they will select 1 or 2 Ds in the 32-40 range, or perhaps a D and Spencer Night, if he somehow slips to the second round. Plus, they're very likely to trade Nyquist and will get at least a 2nd-rounder... maybe a late first... If they get a late first, they'll be set up for another draft like they had in 2018 (4 picks in the top 36, which yielded Zadina, Veleno, Berggren and McIsaac).

They're also unlikely to make the playoffs next year and will have another lottery pick in the 2020 draft. Green, Daley and Ericksson are all UFAs at the end of next season (19-20) and will bring more picks in 2020, plus free up $12.5 million in cap space. Sulak, Hronek, Saarijarvi, Hicketts, and perhaps one of McIsaac or Lindstrom will be competing to replace them.

If it all works out (which it won't)... even without any trades, UFAs, or the emergence of a surprise late round pick, the 21-22 lineup could already look something like:

Rasmussen, Hughes/Kaako/Dach/Cozens, Zadina
Bertuzzi, Larkin, Mantha
Athanisiou, Veleno, Berggren (talking about speed)
Svechnikov, De La Rose/Ehn/Turgeon, Givani Smith

Cholowski, a trade/UFA/pick
McIsaac, Hronek
Sulak, Lindstrom
Hicketts

With the exception of possible trades or UFA signing for #1D and a goalie, Mantha, Anthanasiou and Sulak will be the oldest at 27 years old.

Also in the mix at D: Saarijaarvi, Regula and Kotkansolo, plus 1 or 2 high 2019 2nd-round picks (maybe 2 of Bjornfot, Ryan Johnson, Kokkanen, Korczak, or someone who settles into the 32-40 range by draft day?). Hakan Andersson also thinks Malte Setkov could be a late bloomer (2017 4th round pick). He's another 6'6" player that may need some time to grow into his body. If Hakan likes him, I like him.

If the Wings get truly lucky, Spencer Night might be in goal. If not, one of Larsson, Eliassson, Petruzzelli, or Van Pottelberghe... all of which have shown some potential... or someone like Taylor Gutthier from the 2019 draft. If not Spencer Night, they will most likely take the trade- or UFA-route for a #1 goalie, until one of the prospects is ready.

That team has:
* Strength down the middle: 1C Hughes/Dach/Cozens; 2C Larkin; 3C Veleno
* 3 scoring lines
* Tons of top-end speed at forward: Larkin, Anthanasiou, Berggren, Veleno, and whichever 1C they draft in 2019 (especially Hughes or Cozens)
* High-end scoring (Zadina, 2019 Pick, Larkin, Mantha, Rasmussen, Berggren, and maybe 2020 first round pick)
* Net-front specialists: Rasmussen, Bertuzzi
* 6-7 solid, puck-moving D
* And one can hope: Spencer Night in goal.

Unfortunately, they may not have a true #1 D. This year's draft doesn't have many elite D prospects.

There will be a couple legacy players close to the end of their contracts to provide continuity to the Red Wing culture: Abdelkader, Dekeyser, Nielsen. The remaining 'bad' contracts, which everyone whines about, will be gone. The cap will continue to grow, so cap-space will not be an issue. Many of the players will still be in their entry-level contracts or have a bridge contract. Some of the stars (as they emerge) will be locked up long-term (Larkin, Mantha, Rasmussen, and maybe Zadina and/or their 2019 first). Dylan Larkin will be captain.

With a trade or two, maybe a solid UFA signing... or maybe an unlikely later-round pick emerges ... and this team becomes a team to be reckoned with again.

For all the whining about Ken Holland and the front-office, the future actually looks bright. They've been crafting the new Red Wings for a few years now. They still need some star-power to compete with the best. But Larkin and Zadina may become stars. They'll probably select another star with their 2019 1st... It may even be Jack Hughes. Plus, they'll almost certainly be a lottery team for the 2020 draft, which may produce another high-end prospect or two.

Then you have Mantha and Rasmussen who are giant kids (6'5" and 6'6"). Some question their progress and hence their upside. But I suspect they may take a little longer than some just to give them time to grow into their frames. It's not unreasonable to expect one or both to approach some sort of star-level. And Jonatan Berggren is my dark-horse to become an Arvidsson or Marchand. Veleno could easily become a high-end player.

I don't know what's going to happen on D. But Cholowski, Hronek and McIsaac seem like good bets to become solid top-4s. I also have a good feeling about Lindstrom; but that may be his name speaking to me more than his upside. Maybe one of them will surprise and become a #1-lite.

The Red Wings have missed the playoffs for 2 years. They'll miss them again this year and almost certainly again next year. They may contend for a playoff spot in 20-21, but not the Cup. But for what it's worth, 21-22 is starting to look pretty darn intriguing to me. Maybe the Wings front-office actually knows what they're doing after all? And then there's the wild card. Will Stevie Y will be the new Red Wings GM in a couple years? If he is, he'll have a ton to work with... similar to Tampa when he took over.

Wow, good write-up & also the longest post I've ever seen/read on any hockey forum, good detail. Frans Nielsen has only had 2 50+pt seasons since entering into the league in '06, with his 1st full season in '08, so he really is a great #3C, not a #2C, even if that was his role on the Isles behind Tavares. Its always funny looking back several years on my posts & posts of other HF Board members when projecting future line-ups, they're usually way off, after 1-2 seasons at best, as you also eluded to.

What do you think about these returns?
Athanasiou late 1st (this season or next season)
late 1st (Nyquist)
late 3rd (Daley)
late 4th (Vanek)
Late 4th? (Howard)
Late 3rd (Jensen)
Late 4th? (Kronner)...if he wants last shot at cup.

Late 3rd? (Ericsson) in 2020
Helm (25% retention) ?
Nielsen (25% retention) ?
 

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