What is the consensus on Chistov and Bouchard

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by gretzky1545, Jun 21, 2004.

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  1. gretzky1545

    gretzky1545 Registered User

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    What is your opinion on Stanislav Chistov and PM Bouchard's ceilings in the NHL, and their likelihood to actually reach them. I'm interested in point totals, what line they might top out on, and so on. Thanks for the help.
     
  2. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    Both still have #1 line upside, IMO. points? That always depends on the NHL but 75-80 is not out of the question.

    Bouchard has greatly improved in the second half of the season as an overall player. These are the growing pains expected at such a young age and playing for Lemaire. I do think he was given a spot he did not deserve in his first NHL season and I am against that. This year they had him work more for his ice time and cut him less slack.

    Chistov is another guy who is victim of a sophomore season. Nothing has gone right for this guy since he has been drafted. I do think both him and Svitov still suffer from the rust after being caught in a political storm in Russia. But the excuses are over for them. This season they both need to pick up their game.

    Chistov had golden oppoortunities last season but did not do anything with it. He could have had great linemates but he seemed awestruck, ill-prepared. He did not get in the areas he needed to be in, and did not move quickly enough for my tastes. Of course, it was also alarming to see him score very few times in the season and float at times when he was sent to the AHL. There's no way this guy is an AHLer and he should have demonstrated it loudly but he didn't.

    Both P-M and Stan are smallish and were fairly weak when they come to North America so both had to adapt. Bouchard looks already stronger and his approach to the game is now more polished and pro-like but there is still work. I hope Chistov has good work ethic between seasons. He needs to gain back his confidence as quickly as possible. They both have strong hockey sense, are very accurate passers and shooters (but weak). I think they have both the ability to play with very skilled linemates and complement them well but I do not think of them as "main guys" on a top line. Their point total ceilings will depend on who they play with. They both have the qualities required to play with anyone in this league and not miss a beat. However even complement players must *accomplish* things, especially on a first line. These guys right now have the potential but cannot do it.
     
  3. Rahan

    Rahan Registered User

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    1- P-M Bouchard has first line upside but I read you write on another thread that Christopher Higgins has low upside (read 3rd line). Right. Bouchard is weak, and will NEVER fill out. He loses 10 pounds a game, he's gonna get pushed around all his career, he's too much of a perimeter player and the best he can expect is to pull a Ribeiro and get second line duties. Higgins on the other hand is MUCH stronger (still has to fill out a bit, sometimes get pushed), can go in traffic and is really a smart guy. Oh, and he can backcheck.

    2- P-M Bouchard is from the province of Quebec. That's in North America..
     
  4. Freaky Habs Fan

    Freaky Habs Fan Registered User

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    You come from Quebec and you said that Quebec is a province!!! Sweet :handclap: :handclap: :handclap: That's cool because I hate when the Quebecois said that they are not canadian...
     
  5. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    Yes, having seen Bouchard for a long time since that's where I live, I don't know what exactly I had in mind but obviously made a mistake. Thanks for that.

    As for P-M, he already looks much stronger (he was really weak though so still has a way to go) in the second half of the season. Played much less on the permieter and surprisingly was able to battle for the puck efficiently enough. In lloks to me like he has already begun to fill on so I would say you are incorrect. Bouchard's game is rounding out, as I've mentioned. He can backcheck too and is a diligent worker, which goes a long way.

    He can do much better than Ribeiro because his maturity level ioff the chart compared to Mike. Ribeiro has a great creativity and vision but it is still a tunnel-vision collectively. He seems to be able to have good nights only when he goes for high-risk plays and low percentage stuff. I think he is very entertaining but that condemns him to be a 2nd line player unless he can constantly get away with it, and I doubt that will be the case. Bouchard on the other hand will be able to play 82 games a year without being a liability and be effective een when he does not produce offense. He is much smarter team-wise.

    I do think Higgins has low upside but I do not see that as meaning he has 3rd liner written all over him and if you've read what I have to say about him, you'll see that. The problem is, he can be much stronger than Bouchard, he will never have the natural skill of that kind of player. He can make up for it through work and development but frankly, he's not the same kind of player. As for his work ethic, you will see next season that Bouchard is catching up in that department so I do not see it as a big advantage for Higgins either.

    I was disappointed by Bouchard in the first half of the season, maybe that's when you saw him or maybe we just disagree but he was much more solid (even if that doesn't really show on the scoresheet) in the second half.
     
  6. Kafka

    Kafka Registered User

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    Well, Quebec is still a province... but Quebecers are forming a real nation with their own culture and their own values. And that statement ISN'T EXCLUDING ANYONE. Even anglophones, cause of the fact they are surrounded by the frencophone culture, are unique in Canada.

    We only want people around the world to know we exist, and it's really hard to understand other canadians not wanting that to happen... why being afraid of that? We are at the start different, and it would be better for each of us to rule our country the way we want it to run: Quebec as a social-democraty and Canada as a center-right country.
     
  7. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    Guys, you turn that thread into a political discussion and a mod is sure to come over and close it.
     
  8. Vincent_TheGreat

    Vincent_TheGreat Registered User

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    I agree with Vlad on Bouchard. PM really stepped up and looked much better conditioned and somewhat stronger on the puck. If PM fills out at 180 at 5'10 I think he'll be fine, his skating is still getting better and faster and his shot is improving day by day. IMO 3-4 years PM will be a 70+ point producer. As for chistov I've only seen him in WJC action so I can't say anything about him.
     
  9. gretzky1545

    gretzky1545 Registered User

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    thanks for the help guys...and go quebec apparently
     
  10. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    The "x" factor with guys like Bouchard and Chistov is desire. If they have the passion to be the best at their craft, and that means everything from nutrition to the weight room, they will be elite point producers at the NHL level. They are that talented. Look at Martin St.Louis, and you have the ideal when it comes to these two players.
     
  11. ChemiseBleuHonnete

    ChemiseBleuHonnete Registered User

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    Technically, yes we are a province... In reality, we share nothing with canadians, we are really that different. You know what I hate? When canadiens don't accept we're different...
     
  12. Murphy*

    Murphy* Guest

    :nopity:
     
  13. ChemiseBleuHonnete

    ChemiseBleuHonnete Registered User

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    Awnsers like that are just another reasons to consider ourselves different. While we're talking about it, give me just 5 good reasons to consider myself canadian... Go ahead. We don't share the same genetics, the same culture, the same languague, the same history, the same values, etc. I've been asking this countless time to jackasses like you and they haven't yet gave me a decent awnser. You still can use a ready-to-use computer generated animated gif to make you look smart, but when it comes down to use words and making us feel the same, I'm still waiting after you guys.
     
  14. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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    Don't you share a uhh.. what do you call it.. government?
     
  15. ZombieMatt

    ZombieMatt Registered User

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    Canada as a whole is very unique and different throughout it.

    It is extremely selfish to think that Quebec is any more unique or special or distinct or whatever you want to call it from the "Rest of Canada" (which of course only actually exists in the disillusioned minds of some Quebecois).

    Quebec is no more different from BC as the Maritimes are. Just because some of you speak a different language does NOT make you any more different from one part of Canada than another.

    This is a nation OF differences.

    Get over yourself.
     
  16. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    You know what I hate? When you generalize and assume that other Canadians don't accept that you're different and then whine about it.

    The violin gif was a good call. You've got some inferiority complex or something if you feel the need to generalize, stereotype, and whine about the rest of Canada in a hockey thread. Heck the Western provinces feel alienated by the Ontario as well so it's not like it's everyone against Quebec. If you feel like that you don't have a very good grip on the rest of Canada. Anyways I'd suggest taking it to the lounge/political discussion board if you feel the need to talk about it further.
     
  17. Beatnik

    Beatnik Registered User

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    Bring it to the Political board if you want to talk about it, we did'nt had that fight for a while.

    Let's talk Chistov and Bouchard here.

    Bouchard could be a N1 center oneday he's a faster/better Ribeiro
     
  18. mazmin

    mazmin Go! Jets! Go!

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    Chistov grew a ton physically since being drafted. The drastic changes in his size may have even affected his game last season. Once he gets used to playing at around 200lbs than theres no reason why he won't be a top line player.

    Bouchard has gotten a bit taller than when he was drafted which was a good sign, but he still needs to put on more weight. Regardless of his size, his skills are excellent. The coache's in Minnesota need to let this guy play his game...and score.
     
  19. ChemiseBleuHonnete

    ChemiseBleuHonnete Registered User

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    it's gonna be my last reply, but I didn't generalized at all... I was replying to one poster, not the rest of the country. While I don't consider myself a canadian, I do respect the canadians (especially the montreal canadiens lol, just kidding) a lot... You just misunderstood what I really meant, I'm sorry if it's my mistake, but from reading my post I see no generalization.
     
  20. ZombieMatt

    ZombieMatt Registered User

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    Sorry.

    Personally, I think Bouchard could be very comparable to Pierre Turgeon is his prime. Very much a playmaking type of playing, I don't see Bouchard scoring more than 20 very often, if even reaching that high. His assist totals however, could be at 60-70 if he gets to play with linemates like Gaborik and is permitted to unleash a little in Minnesota.
     
  21. I think with good linemates, Bouchard could be a force to reckon with but with Brunette and Weimer? Ouch...
     
  22. Gee Wally

    Gee Wally Grumpy

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    I agree .... this thread is to stay on subject and off the political trail as of right now.

    This can be considered a general warning to anyone that chooses to ignore my request.
     
  23. firstroundbust

    firstroundbust lacks explosiveness

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    the thing with bouchard...he was poised to have one hell of a season...had 10 pts in the first 8 games...then got slashed across the hands and broke a finger...he spent the majority of the season trying to recover, only to step it up at the end...

    he does need some size...but his vision and ability to read plays is excpetional, especially for a young'n
     
  24. blueberry

    blueberry Registered User

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    These guys remind me of guys like savard. hemsky, comrie etc. Lots of skill and lots of potential but in the end they never seem to put up those big point totals for one reason or another. You get the odd year of some small guy doing well ( martin st. louis this year) but it does seem to be the exception. Its a long season and most of these guys can't take the pounding for 80 + games, year after year. I would imagine they'd probably end up in the 50 point range max, which really ain't that bad I guess.
     
  25. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    Yes, also one thing I like for such a young guy is that many of the players who are very successful in their pre-pro career let it go to their head at least a little.

    P-M is just a really grounded guy, and one great person. He is a talent that is very coachable.
     
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