What is Kane missing from being considered as the best player of his generation?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by illpucks, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. WolvesAndWings

    WolvesAndWings Registered User

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    The eye test, which is clear as day and tells you he hasn't been as good Crosby/Ovi over their careers.

    In before someone interprets that as me calling Kane a bad player.
     
  2. Zaide

    Zaide 마지막처럼

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    The typical stats test leads to the same conclusion.

    Same with the advanced stats test!
     
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  3. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

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    He's certainly one of the best...who do you have ahead of him?
     
  4. stepdad gaary

    stepdad gaary Registered User

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    crosby, malkin, ovechkin to start. everyone else after that is up for debate as far as i am concerned. kane is one of the best players after those three but i think there are a lot of guys that have a similar claim to him. certainly an elite player
     
  5. Mean Gene

    Mean Gene Haters gonna hate

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    Crosby
    Ovechkin
    Malkin
    Kane

    In that order.
     
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  6. Zaide

    Zaide 마지막처럼

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    From a points perspective, during the Hawks glory era, more goals were scored, per game, in the playoffs against western teams than against eastern teams. By a significant margin too. (about 2.6 vs 2.8)
    Now that doesn't tell which conference was tougher, obviously. But let's not forget the Hawks also iced some of the best teams in recent memory. And how good your linemates are has greater impact than how good your opponents are.
    Since 07-08 (Kane's first season), in the playoffs only, Crosby has had a more positive global impact. (significantly higher points production rate and relative goal differential rate)
    And I just want to conclude by saying that winning or not winning an award has absolutely no impact on how good a player has been.
     
  7. Fataldogg

    Fataldogg Registered User

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    1a. Ovechkin
    1b. Crosby

    2. Malkin
    3. Kane

    He is right up there in my book. Clearly not the best of his generation.

    If he wins a couple more Art Ross trophies or gets another Hart or two, than things can change. He still is only 30. But its slim.
     
  8. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

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    So in what world is he not one of the best...you've named 3 players so far. Go on...
     
  9. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

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    He's one of the best then...I agree, not the best for sure.
     
  10. BeastoftheEast85

    BeastoftheEast85 Registered User

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    He was just not as good as prime Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin (though more consistent than the last). Unfortunately he was born just after one of the greatest generational tier crops ever. Top American of his generation though and may have a case for all time.
     
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  11. Sidmieux

    Sidmieux Registered User

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    He’s the 4th best player of his generation. No shame.
     
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  12. drs151

    drs151 Registered User

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    This foresure. Also that he isn’t the best of his generation
     
  13. Hynh

    Hynh Registered User

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    Top 10 players that started their careers in the cap era by points per game (minimum 100 GP)

    NamePoints per gameAge of rookie seasonGPper 82
    Crosby1.29 1891539-67-106
    McDavid1.28 1826237-68-105
    Malkin1.18 2083438-59-97
    Ovechkin1.12 20105650-42-92
    P. Kane1.04 1987632-53-85
    Stamkos1.02 1871843-40-83
    Panarin1.00 2429430-52-82
    Kucherov0.99 2041933-48-81
    Gaudreau0.99 2136628-53-81
    Backstrom0.98 2086821-60-81
     
  14. Plural

    Plural Registered User

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    No he is not.
     
  15. Atticus Finch

    Atticus Finch ***** Pigeons

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  16. stepdad gaary

    stepdad gaary Registered User

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    i called him one of the best. i said after crosby malkin ovechkin, he and a few others slot in. im so confused by what you think i said
     
  17. MadLuke

    MadLuke Registered User

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    Really hard to create an argument, considering he is pretty much an offensive machine and 3 other players produced at an higher rate than him from is generation.

    1.Sidney Crosby2005-061.286
    2.Evgeni Malkin2006-071.181
    3.Alex Ovechkin2005-061.119
    4.Patrick Kane2007-081.035
    5.Steven Stamkos2008-091.015

    fdsfs
    1.Sidney Crosby2005-061.156
    2.Evgeni Malkin2006-071.044
    3.Patrick Kane2007-080.969
    4.Alex Ovechkin2005-060.967
    5.Ryan Getzlaf2005-060.960

    Art Ross:
    Crosby: 2
    Malkin: 2
    Kane: 1

    Hart
    Ov: 3
    Crosby: 2
    Malkin: 2
    Kane : 1

    Smythe
    Crosby: 2
    Kane: 1
    OV: 1
    Malkin: 1

    Top 10 point finish:
    Crosby: 10
    Ovechkin: 8
    Kane: 5
    Malkin: 4

    Top 3 point finish:
    Crosby: 8
    Ovechkin: 5
    Kane: 3
    Malkin: 3

    Point per game finish
    Top 10:
    Crosby: 11
    Kane: 5

    Top 3:
    Crosby: 9
    Kane: 2

    Top 1:
    Crosby: 5
    Kane: 1


    Crosby has 3 more top 3 points finish than Kane has top 10.

    Unlike a Datsyuk, Bergeron, Karlsson, Lundqvist, people with a different position/role when you are an offensive forward with a production significantly behind an other one, same playoff success (with again less productive playoff), how do you go above him ?

    It is not like he has a specially good +/- or aynthing like that:
    NHL Active Leaders and Records for Plus/Minus | Hockey-Reference.com

    Crosby could reach top 5 active players more than twice Malkin playing on is team. Other way around for Kane, Toews on is team is top 2 among active, while Kane is not in the top 50, career +58


    Using the very strange stats that is the goal winning one could indicate that you are simply trolling.
     
  18. Varan

    Varan Registered User

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    st. louis is like the big 3 right now, part of the old generation but playing with the new generation if that makes any sense, AND at a high level (not like crosby/ov/malkin), but still!
     
  19. Varan

    Varan Registered User

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    malkin is always hurt, not like he plays bad
     
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  20. Varan

    Varan Registered User

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    you better watch out for incomers! :)
     
  21. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    He's from the same generation as Crosby, Ovie, Malkin.
     
  22. Ugene Malkin

    Ugene Malkin Wanna play?

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    Only to a guy looking at stat totals and not the whole picture.

    Kessel had 10 goals 12 assists for 22 points.
    Crosby had 6 goals and 13 assists for 19 points
    Murray had a great playoffs, but nobody notices the the shot depression. One game he saw 17 shots. 17.... The Pens averaged about 27 shots against per game. In order from game 1 to 6 (San Jose) the shots he saw a game>>>>>>26/22/26/24/21/19
    Couture had 2 goals 4 assists in a losing effort. When was the last time an opposition player won the MVP not being the goaltender in a losing effort?

    The answer is: Reggie Leach, and he had 19 goals and 24 points in 16 games to lead the field in a losing effort against Montreal and more than doubled the nearest player in goals.

    Did Couture do something like that?

    No.

    I'd say it wasn't a travesty as people make it out to be, Crosby won it because he set up the game winning (Letang) and clinching (Hornqvist) goals for the cup. Had Crosby not done that it most certainly had gone to, Kessel.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
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  23. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

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    Not at all
     
  24. OKOptimistic

    OKOptimistic Registered User

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    People tend to rate centers or bigger players like Crosby and Matthews over smaller wingers like Gaudreau and Kane. All around players who can shrug off contact or play in front of the net, and also forecheck and defend. However when Kane is in space I've never seen a more dangerous player. The whole defensive team becomes extra alert when he has the puck and usually attracts multiple defenders. And he definitely makes something happen.
     
  25. Voight

    Voight #winning

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    I'm a. Hawks fan but I am OK with him not being acknowledged like 87 & 8. They are generational players so its really no shame to be the 3rd or 4th or 5th best of your time. Guys like Yzerman, Sakic, Jagr and Messier were overlooked in the 80s and 90s because of Lemieux and Gretz.

    Kane is undoubtedly a top 10 player of this era and has an argument to be in the top 5.
     
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